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Looking at the new pick trucks.

B

Brent Zappe

Member
yesterday I brought my old truck in for some work at the Dealership. while I was there I looked at the new FORD pick truck F-250 super duty. I was doing okay and till I looked at the price tag (more like price shell shock). After I really looked at it and started to think what I was looking at. Well the old truck started to look even better. What is going on with this DEEF. Exhaust additive? Is it that we make a Cad. converter so hot we have to cool it down with this additive? No wonder why we have forest fire and brush fire. I know there was a whole lot of controversy on the 6.0 Liter I.H. engine but I have kept my up on services and so far I have one good truck. If I bought a new truck with every thing that is on my truck it is the price of my first house I ever bought.Well that was only a 70,000 dollar house. So I guess I will stick with they old F-250 super duty 2006 6.0 engine heavy tow package it has worked out get so far.
 
No kidding... My 2000 I stuck a new motor in 3 years ago.. motor and install was 5,000. which I paid cash for.. truck is in great shape.. dont plan on EVER buying new..

I have to figure that alot of those trucks are leased with that kind of sticker price.. cant imagine coming up with that monthly payment..
 
I looked at a F150 Raptor one time while waiting for my car - $75,000. If the average guy is going to buy one of those they need to be able to sleep and raise a family in it instead of buying a house. LOL
 
When my wife and I were married in 1965, we paid $9800 for the first house we bought and it was a fairly nice house.

But, I was working for about $2.00 per hour and my wife was salaried at about $250 per month.

Something has gone crazy since then.
 
There is no way a new pickup would make sense economically for me. For $70,000 it better have a tandem axle and 20 foot grain box on it if there was any hope of it making sense on my operation. My 22 year old S Blazer will likely outlast me as many miles as I put on in a year.
 
Def mixes with the exhaust and changes a chemical in the exhaust to a supposedly better chemical never mind all def Is made from Is urea and water so let?s pump fertilizer in the air also have to have more trucks running just to deliver the def more factories to make the def all while crippling the engines it?s put on with less fuel mileage and constant repair . Welcome to the left wings way of thinking oh we?re cutting emissions really? How many thousand more trucks are running because of this crap?
 
Couple of weeks ago I bought a used Prius. Great car. With gas prices low, there is not much demand for them they are cheap and abundant. I also have a twenty year old truck that I would like to replace in the coming years. I'm counting on the gas prices going back up and when that happens I'm hoping there will be a glut of used trucks from all the people who bought big while gas prices were low. I'll buy a new-to-me used truck then. That's my plan, we'll see.
 
Same predicament here. I have a 1999 Chevy 3/4 ton I bought new. Last year it needed some work. I decided to price a new one and found out my old truck was worth fixing. I priced out a simple ton truck single wheel base regular cab gas engine truck. They wanted $70,000 just for that truck. So far my old truck does what I ask and I really don't look forward to when it doesn't.
 

If you live in the north where road salt is used . There is no choice but to purchase a new truck . At 10 years the body is completely
Rotten and full of holes . If washed down and oiled maybe 20 years .
The urea is not for cooling , it is chemical treatment of the exhaust .
I recall when any truck at 100,000 miles was just plain beat and the engine had already had at least a valve job. Now gasoline vehicles travel 300,000 miles with just oil , filters, a starter, alternator , battery , two set of plugs , tires and brakes .
I have no idea why people want a truck and the engine repair bill of $4000 to $10,000 just after the warranty expires. Plus the extra up front cost of the diesel option.
My youngest boy needed a vehicle . Went to our GM dealer . 1500 4X4 double cab Sierra elevation model with the 5.3 and tow package, block heater and remote start. Four extra factory rims, four Blizzak snow tires, chassis oiled at Rust-Chek , air conditioning tax, freight/delivery and 13% Ontario sales tax . $49,935.00 out the door. And that is in the devalued Canadian dollar currency.
If you don t like Tier IV emissions . Blame the people who voted for the two Goverments that for 16 years let the EPA set what ever restrictions that they wanted .
Tier I would have been enough on any off road, stationary emergency application or for emergency service highway vehicles . Tier II would have been plenty
For any other highway licensed vehicle.
 
(quoted from post at 07:28:55 06/21/19)
If you live in the north where road salt is used . There is no choice but to purchase a new truck . At 10 years the body is completely
Rotten and full of holes . If washed down and oiled maybe 20 years .
The urea is not for cooling , it is chemical treatment of the exhaust .
I recall when any truck at 100,000 miles was just plain beat and the engine had already had at least a valve job. Now gasoline vehicles travel 300,000 miles with just oil , filters, a starter, alternator , battery , two set of plugs , tires and brakes .
I have no idea why people want a truck and the engine repair bill of $4000 to $10,000 just after the warranty expires. Plus the extra up front cost of the diesel option.
My youngest boy needed a vehicle . Went to our GM dealer . 1500 4X4 double cab Sierra elevation model with the 5.3 and tow package, block heater and remote start. Four extra factory rims, four Blizzak snow tires, chassis oiled at Rust-Chek , air conditioning tax, freight/delivery and 13% Ontario sales tax . $49,935.00 out the door. And that is in the devalued Canadian dollar currency.
If you don t like Tier IV emissions . Blame the people who voted for the two Goverments that for 16 years let the EPA set what ever restrictions that they wanted .
Tier I would have been enough on any off road, stationary emergency application or for emergency service highway vehicles . Tier II would have been plenty
For any other highway licensed vehicle.
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I can remember when 50,000 miles was the breaking point between low miles and high miles. Trade in value diminished quickly after that point.
 
When we are talking about the Def. you are right it does bring more problems to the engine performance. Back in 1977 when I took a smog class they talked about the cad. converter and what a big plus it was to out exhaust emission. the problem is we change over to one type of exhaust emission on all the trucks and cars which means that in time that will build up in our smog levels. This new Cad. converter is built with a filter system that when it starts to build up it requires you to run your engine for a long time to clear this filter so it can run like it should. Yes you are right it is not the best thing to have.
 
What is interesting about this is what do you say to a shop person. After he takes it for a test drive and comes back with a smile on his face. Saying that my truck runs really better than the new ones do. He say that even with the 208,000 miles on our diesel 6.0 that the maintained the engine does pay off. I do know what you say about the millage and what it use to be but think about todays oil that they use in these new engines and the way the engine oil filters are designed. Did you know that if you got in the car, started it up and drove it the worst thing is to do is drive it less than 5 miles for that time.
 
When your looking for a heavy duty work truck some times it is actually cheaper to buy a light duty large truck, it will have a better engine option and much better suspension/drive line,,but not as stylish as the fancy pick ups, the pick ups are "Trendy" with a lot of frills that are not needed in a every day Farm truck.
 
I remember looking thru books that list MSRP of old cars ( old to me ) in the 60's and early 70's they seem to be fairly steady a little more each year. Then somewhere in the mid 70's they really ramped up ! I always wondered why ? Then not too many years back someone was talking about how we should get rid of the federal reserve IIRC and were telling about how they were formed in the mid 70's and maybe how they made inflation worse. Hum ? same time frame as the car prices and inflation went nuts !
 
You think they E.P.A is the worst wait I live in California U.S.A and it is the worst than the E.P.A. California is one of the state in this country that is so strict on smog and fuel additives it is not Laughable. Just like red die diesel fuel can only be used in farm tractors only or if you are cought with it in your tank you will get fined and the tank gets drained.
 
So you looked at that Rich mans toy. The problem is with that Rapture is that you must remember it is a half ton pick up. It is designed for off road dirt fun and You must remind yourself it is not designed for the other stuff you buy a truck for. Like towing heavy stuff, hauling stuff in the bed of the truck and the price is like buying a F-250 super duty. so yes I think of that truck as a rich mans toy.
 
Yip have to do a periodic regen to burn the dpf filters out guess how they burn out ? There is a system on that pumps tiny bit of fuel into the filter to do the regen
 
No what I was talking about is that the filter system plugs up and then it requires you to run the engine like for a long time. This allow the exhaust and the pump filter to work it self clear for the cad. converter to work like they should. I guess there is a light that comes on the dash most people will bring it in to get it worked on. The shop will run that engine and make Shure that the filter clears it self. this is what I was trying to prefer to.
 
Boy a lot of topics to cover.

I was looking at the pricing on new trucks lately and saw what I expected in pricing. Pickups have morphed from a utility work vehicle to nice rides that are comfortable to drive coast to coast. The average income of a new truck buyer is 80K or higher. And yea, 700-800 a month is the new normal for them. And most are sold, not leased. These same buyers have house payments north of 3K a month and guess what? Because of life style choices they live paycheck to paycheck! It's how the other half lives. Now just cause you don't live live that doesn't mean you don't make that kinda money. Just means you don't live like that. It's all about life choices.

Now people love to blame the companies and such for inflation. Nope. Not at all. Most companies shoot for 5-7% net profit. They have a for a very long time because that's what seems to work. That means that anything that effect operating costs effects that 5-7%. Labor, raw materials/merchandise R&D and taxes (local, state and fed) all effect that profit margin. Now I know, you guys are thinking that they can do with less than 5%. This is a tractor forum! So look what happened to IH with them shooting for about a 2% margin when times got hard? When the bottom drops out 2% leaves a company borrowing for raw materials/merchandise. That is never a good thing. Chrysler in the Carter/Reagan recession was having to borrow. Then in the last one both Chrysler and GM were borrowing just to buy materials to build cars and trucks and had to be bailed out. IH was borrowing the last couple of years before it failed.

Now as far as inflation? Wages are the biggest thing followed by taxes. Look at it this way. WalMart has over 2 million employees. For the sake of simplicity lets say at any one time 1 million are on the clock. 365 days a year. That's 365,000,000 man hours x 24. Now lets give em all a well deserved 2 buck an hour raise! Prior to the raise payroll was say 13.00 on average. so 13X365,000,000x24=113,880,000,000 now tack on that measly 2 bucks an hour. 113,880,000,000+17,520,000,000. Yea that extra 17 BILLION 880 MILLION payroll expense gets added to prices to reflect the extra operating costs. So the guys down at Green Giant demand higher wages to compensate for having to pay more in WalMart. So Green Giant raises prices accordingly so that the guys at the GM plant have to pay more for groceries. And then lets not forget city, state and federal minimum wage hikes. Or new taxes/tariffs.

Remember, when politicians and the news media are playing with numbers that numbers can be deceiving. 2 bucks an hour don't sound like much. But 2X8X52X however many employees. That adds up quick. For a company like WalMart it's in the BILLIONS of DOLLARS a year.

Rick

Just saying.....

Rick
 
I bought my 2017 Toyota Tacoma new for 24800.00 cash. No interest payments to bother with that increases what I paid for it. I settled for their 4cyl.6sp.auto package. It has a button on dash to increase speed if needed. I don't tow with it. Truck is bare package. No keyfob,cruise control rear seats alarm sys. I would like to have had a V8 but I anticipate gas increases. My previous 1999 Dodge Dakota with 318cu.ate a lot of fuel. So I have a nice new truck without going broke.



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Yup, road salt is the limiting factor for vehicle life in the north country. Drive train durability has very little to do with it.
 
I'm in the process of redoing the body of my rusty 2007 chevy. If I let it go any longer it wasn't going to be repairable. Cab and hood less cab corners and rockers are going to be the only original body metal. Frame drivetrain engine all good. So far I have about $4,500 in it shouldn't need much more (hopefully).
Priced a local well reputed body shop says $15,000. New replacement truck $68,000 Diesel, HD 4x4 not to fancy. Replace with newer similar 2011 $28,000 2-3 years from same body issues.
So even at $5000 for my repair it was a no brainer.
Always have wondered how people afforded things especially when they didn't learn how to fix things or use the tools.
It may not be quite as good as the body shop but I am going to happy with it. The truck has served me well and enjoy driving it.
 
It's the same in NY. Get caught with red fuel in a road vehicle, call out SWAT and the National Guard!

By the way, it has nothing to do with the fuel. Fuel companies will tell you the only difference is the dye. It has to do with fuel TAX. Can't be having someone drive down the road without paying the taxes, don't you know.
 
Just bought a 2013 1/2 ton Chevy with 100,000 miles on it.thing is I could do a whole lot of repairs on it if I had to and not get anywhere close to what a new one costs. I kept my 1995 3/4 ton Chevy with 320,000 miles for a work truck .insurance on it is not but 44 bucks a month and it takes the hit for the farm stuff.
 

Considering how manufactures were forced to add crash protection , crumple zones , air bags, and computer controlled everything . People should be amazed instead of complaining at how low the price is for the level of fit, finish, design and durability.
 

Many people hauling a "load" in the box of a pickup would be better off with a 7x14" trailer with a single 5000lb axle and electric brakes .
 
i done even look at new ones, my cut off for "new" is 1985, beyond that i wont look at them, the older ones do the job, are easy to fix, on the rare occasion they actually need fixing, no computers, parts for all the American trucks are available from numerous manufactures, some are junk, some are better than the factory pieces, ive got 3, and at my age ill just keep them
 
The beds on these new trucks are so short and too high to get into a trailer behind an SUV would be a lot better option. Or a large mini van.
 
A while back I put $11,000 into my 2004 F250, 6.0 L 4x4 with 150,000 miles. It is like a new truck except it doesn't have a thermometer. No dents, no rust (Texas).It's my hauler and work truck and the interior looks like it. Has all the stuff I'd have to buy and add to a new truck, gooseneck hitch, brakes, headache rack, brush guard, etc. Insurance is very reasonable. I do have a 2016 F150 for my car. I recently took that truck out to Big Bend N.P.and drove the river road in the park. You don't drive that road in something you don't trust. P.S. Some years back I did all the repair and maintenance on my vehicles. Something about turning 70 a while back made me reconsider some jobs.
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Biggest problem I have with buying a new truck off a lot is, the dealership wants to sell what is sitting on their lot. There is more money for the dealership in selling a fancy truck with a back seat and a load of gadgets, than there ever will be in selling a base model pickup. You know , regular cab, crank windows , 8 foot box. One salesman even tried to tell me that no company even made a regular cab truck anymore. If you want to buy fancy, go for it , but if you just want to buy a basic pickup, then the dealers should have to stock them too. And not make you pay through the nose for a special order. The marketing of cars and trucks is the biggest ripoff/con game available.
 
That's about the time that the federales became heavily involved in the automotive industry, Mike M.

It's no coincidence.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 08:56:53 06/21/19) Yup, road salt is the limiting factor for vehicle life in the north country. Drive train durability has very little to do with it.
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I am in NH with plenty of salt and brine on the roads, and my '06 F 350 has no significant rust.
 
If all your vehicles still use carburetors instead of fuel injection, you may not know what you are missing.
 
Instead of checking what is on dealer's lots, try going online and custom building the truck you want. Compare and price out different option combinations to get what you really like. Then bring your custom specification sheet to several dealers and see which will give you the best deal to order your truck. You will loose the three percent dealer discount for vehicles on the lot, it may take a month or two to get your vehicle, and the resale might be lower because it does not have the most popular options, but on a truck that you will keep a decade or more it might be worth the extra trouble.
 
It certainly is quite a bit of money these days. I'd agree, older in good condition etc. would serve my needs, given the cost of new, there are a lot of options to consider, one being going to a class 3 medium truck, used but in good shape.

My deal at work helps defray the cost of a vehicle, but there is no way I'd go for a 70K pick up truck, just not going to happen. I went for a '16 F150 XL, off the lot, but ordered with a few good options, nothing fancy, but set up pretty good. I could have walked out the door at 26K, added undercoating and extended warranty. Almost 30K miles now. I hated to take in the wintry salt mix on the roads, but regularly flush the undercarriage with the water hose and I mean really wash it down, so far it has minimal rust on the frame. Aluminum body is interesting, should hold up well. 2.7 eco boost V6 - it tows a trailer just fine and is very good on fuel, + has a lot of power. I think I did just fine, while I was banking the payment money before, it is nice to have late model that is reliable. I'm half way paid on it now and could pay it right off if I needed to.
 
(quoted from post at 10:05:40 06/21/19) i done even look at new ones, my cut off for "new" is 1985, beyond that i wont look at them, the older ones do the job, are easy to fix, on the rare occasion they actually need fixing, no computers, parts for all the American trucks are available from numerous manufactures, some are junk, some are better than the factory pieces, ive got 3, and at my age ill just keep them
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Exactly right! And the old ones have an 8 foot box that can haul bigger loads and you don't need a ladder to climb in to. I'm still driving the GMC I bought in 1986.
 
I remember my dad complaining about exorbitant new pickup prices. This was back in the seventies when prices were well south of 10K! If you think trucks are overpriced today, just wait until next year.

The reason new pickup trucks cost over 50K is because there are plenty of folks willing to pay that much. It's more profitable for a car maker to sell a million vehicles at 50K each than to sell two million vehicles at 25K each; it makes no sense for the manufacturer to make cheaper vehicles that more people can afford. The only reason manufacturers make as many cheap cars as they do is to pump up their corporate average fuel economy ratings.

As for DEF, catalytic converters and diesel particulate filters, here's the deal: Either the manufacturers use them or quit building diesels. It's that simple. Or they cheat on their emissions certification like Volkswagen, and we see how that turned out. Folks complained about unleaded gas and catalytic converters when they were mandated in the seventies, but now we just take them for granted. And we see how the same is proving true for the diesel emission controls: folks just accept them as part of the price of owning a new diesel.

I've owned four different Chevy pickup trucks ranging from 1980 to 2017 model year. Each one was about twice as expensive as the previous one, and each one has proven to be twice as good as the previous one.
 
what is sad although the ride and dependability has gotten better gas mileage really hasn't. America is in love with there pick ups and the cost is terrible. when you look at the cost of materials in say a pick up and a full size suv and see higher prices on the pick ups you can see they make a lot of money on those trucks. I bought a Silverado 4 wheel drive in 2010. just turned 40,000. probably cost me 25,000 to trade for a new one just like it and still get no better gas mileage. only in America folks.
 
Folks accept the added costs of mandated emissions controls only because they cannot do anything about it (at least in the short term).

If such nonsense was optional equipment and so sold, how many folks do you think would check the box and pay the price?

Dean
 
Oldtanker is right, lots of topics to be discussed. The thing that turns me off the most on new trucks these days is their looks, or lack of as it were. They just too ugly. Ain't pickin on nobody's brand in particular and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it's a truck, it don't have to be pretty, just get the work done. I understand all that, but trucks can look good and work hard too. 2 cents worth.
 
yes i do, i bought brand new truck in 99, it was the biggest pos i ever owned i got rid of it, give me carburetors, manual front lock out hubs and transmissions any time,
 
Local dealer orders work trucks ten at a time I think. Rubber floor mats , crank windows and other non expensive items. Any color you want as long as it's white. Six v engine.
 
EPA has killed what made Diesel engines worthwhile. They are no longer long lasting, and no longer fuel efficient. They burn a lot of extra fuel to stay soot free, and blow the hot air and pump the salty fluid through a lot of intricate speedy parts.

Blah. I like clean air, but there is a balance of all things, creating the mess they have of low mileage and poor reliability might be worse than the small gains in exhaust they got?

The USA auto makers have abandoned the low cost leaders, low cost markets, and are only selling to high end markets.

Pickups sold well to the whole Ag segment when corn was over $6, so the they are chasing those dollars.

Think it won?t hold up for them, we farmers need to actually use the trucks, not ride them down the 4 lane to look impressive. And, farm ecconomy is pretty bumpy ride, a $70,000 truck that can?t work isn?t such an easy sell. The auto backup stuff gets excited about backing up in tall grass, the auto 4wd goes into limp mode when you actually need it.....

Lot of factors, as oil tanker says, too. There is a big picture.

Paul
 
Where is best place in Midwest to buy new or fro that matter used flat bed for 8 foot 3/4 ton pickup? What are prices for new in different areas of Midwest?
 
Ain't pickin on nobody's brand in particular and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it's a truck, it don't have to be pretty, just get the work done. I understand all that, but trucks can look good and work hard too. 2 cents worth.
I owned a number of the mid-60s F100 trucks, always liked that body style. Rugged, no-nonsense look but not too aggressive styling, either. Then became fond of the '67-'72 body style Fords. Last one I sold down the road was a '67 badged as a Mercury M100 out of Canada.

My '99 F250 with V10 does everything I need, recently towed a parts car home on a trailer, kept up with the insane traffic around DC, no issues. Styling isn't terrible, either--actually like it better than the new trucks. A lot of people around here making a statement with their trucks--comes with a price.
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What you say is very true - dealers would rather sell you something they have on hand rather than order a vehicle for you. For exactly that reason dealerships will invariably stock only the kind of vehicles that the average customer would be interested in. Case in point: Sometime around 2010 a friend of mine bought a new bare-bones F-250 (2WD, regular cab, manual transmission, crank windows, etc) off a local small-town dealer's lot after it had sat there for over 8 months. He got a bargain on it because the dealer just wanted it to be finally gone and off his books. Think of how much it cost the dealership to carry that truck for that long compared to the high-spec models that move in a matter of days or weeks. It shouldn't be any surprise that dealers avoid stocking the base models because virtually nobody wants them. It just wouldn't be good business for a dealership to stock or for a manufacturer to tie up production capacity catering to a very tiny market with low-margin vehicles when they can sell high-spec, high-margin vehicles instead. It isn't a ripoff or con game - the manufacturers and dealers are just supplying what the overall consumer market is demanding. If there came a time when it was the fancy high-spec vehicles that languished on dealers lots and had to be sold at steep discounts just to move them you'd start seeing more low-spec vehicles being produced and stocked at dealerships. But until that happens don't expect dealers to keep base models on hand for when YT participants come shopping for a pickup!
 
(quoted from post at 13:27:16 06/21/19) Biggest problem I have with buying a new truck off a lot is, the dealership wants to sell what is sitting on their lot. There is more money for the dealership in selling a fancy truck with a back seat and a load of gadgets, than there ever will be in selling a base model pickup. You know , regular cab, crank windows , 8 foot box. One salesman even tried to tell me that no company even made a regular cab truck anymore. If you want to buy fancy, go for it , but if you just want to buy a basic pickup, then the dealers should have to stock them too. And not make you pay through the nose for a special order. The marketing of cars and trucks is the biggest ripoff/con game available.
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When were were at McGees in Goderich . They had plain farm trucks and work trucks on the lot . Steel rims, the only options were a factory trailering option , 4X4 and a locking rear differential. Absolutely no other options.
 
(quoted from post at 13:47:37 06/21/19)
(quoted from post at 08:56:53 06/21/19) Yup, road salt is the limiting factor for vehicle life in the north country. Drive train durability has very little to do with it.
Click to expand...

I am in NH with plenty of salt and brine on the roads, and my '06 F 350 has no significant rust.
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NH does not have real winter and only uses a token amount of salt .
 
(quoted from post at 16:24:41 06/21/19) what is sad although the ride and dependability has gotten better gas mileage really hasn't. America is in love with there pick ups and the cost is terrible. when you look at the cost of materials in say a pick up and a full size suv and see higher prices on the pick ups you can see they make a lot of money on those trucks. I bought a Silverado 4 wheel drive in 2010. just turned 40,000. probably cost me 25,000 to trade for a new one just like it and still get no better gas mileage. only in America folks.
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Don t know how you can complain about truck fuel mileage . I know what they were like in the mid 1970 s , 2003 and 2017. What are you expecting for mileage anyways ?
 
I dont like how high the new aluminum body ford trucks are. If you work out of them it's a major pain climbing in to the bed. And if you put toolboxes on it you'll need a ladder to see in them. My brother and I run a roofing company. We buy a new Ford truck every 4 or 5 years it seems. We had to order the last 2 to get them stripped down. My current truck is a 2014 f250. Only options I picked were the 6.7 Diesel, 4x4, heavy gvw package, chrome bumpers, and steps. I believe it was around $36,000 out the door. They always have some kind of "incentive " going on that knocks $10,000 or more off the sticker. Didnt think that was a terrible price for what that truck is capable of and the work itll do over its life. I really like this one.
 
> Folks accept the added costs of mandated emissions controls only because they cannot do anything about it (at least in the short term).

> If such nonsense was optional equipment and so sold, how many folks do you think would check the box and pay the price?

I guess you believe emission controls will only be required in the short term because in the not-too-distant future we'll all be driving EVs and vehicle emission controls will be moot. Could be, but I think internal combustion engines will be around for awhile.

Since you say smog controls are "nonsense", you must not have had the opportunity to experience 1970's air quality in cities like Denver and LA. I did, and I don't want to go back.

No, nobody would "check the box" to pay for optional emissions controls. Nor would they pay for safety features like air bags, collapsible steering wheels and backup cameras. Or liability and medical insurance. Sometimes the Nanny State has to coerce its citizens to eat their peas and carrots.
 
Bingo.

The market is a far better arbiter of everything than is any government agency.

No, my comment about time frame has nothing to do with electric cars, and I too, believe that internal combustion controls will be around for a long time.

You obviously believe in the nanny state. I do not. I would like to be able to not check the box.

Dean
 
Bingo, Paul.

No-nothing bureaucrats sitting in cubes somewhere in the DC swamp have seriously damaged the diesel LT market and are (inadvertently and unknowingly) driving many potential buyers back to gasoline.

It's who they and it's what they do.

It took 50 years for them to get us to this point, but there is hope on the horizon. The pendulum has stopped and is reversing. The American People have had enough.

Stay tuned.

Dean
 
. The EPA should have knocked it off with Tier I for all off-road applications and emergency service vehicles . And Tier II for all other highway vehicle applications .
The complexity of meeting the Tier III and Tier IV emissions cost more in time, fuel, complexity , down time and upfront cost than what they are worth .
 
Gas mileage is a trade off. I have a '97 Ford F150, bought new. Now has about 150K miles. 205 HP 4.6L with factory tow package. Never saw over 10mpg with a trailer at highway speeds. 14-16 without trailer overall average. Occasional 17-18 hwy. Bought a 13 Tundra in early 14. 14-15 overall average, 17 hwy no trailer. With trailer in tow still around 12. But it's heavy, 5500 or so crew max cab and 384 HP!

mpg a little better, lbs per gal a lot better. Performance : outstanding.
 
I am the odd dude in this conversation. If there were not fools like me you used guys would not have the used to purchase. Since 1976 I have owned Fords and drive about 65,000 miles ever 24 months and trade. Will be trading again here in two months. Yes the prices are insane but all I ever look at is the cost per mile, or trade difference , I never have to replace batteries, brakes, or other repairs and have a vehicle ready to go any time. Between the dealership and the farm we have 8 fords and have been satisfied with them.
 
> The market is a far better arbiter of everything than is any government agency.

Your "me first" rationale is a textbook example of what economists call "the tragedy of the commons".
 
> Think it won?t hold up for them, we farmers need to actually use the trucks, not ride them down the 4 lane to look impressive.

The farm truck market may have been significant back in the fifties and sixties, but it sure isn't today. Sure, manufacturers are happy to sell to farmers, but suburban homeowners, RV pullers and construction contractors are where their bread is buttered. And those buyers are willing to pay big money for comfortable, well-equipped vehicles.
 
What government agency is a more efficient arbiter of (pick a topic) than is the free market?

I'll wait.

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 16:05:31 06/21/19) I just re-furbished my old 1995 a couple years ago,, it still works well for me.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto27129.jpg">
Click to expand...

Sharp looking truck, I like the paint.
 
Bingo, B & D.

Sadly, deep state bureaucrats never know when to stop.

When was the last time an agency decided that it's mission had been accomplished and it was time to dissolve?

Dean
 
While I have no need to drive as far as you do, I like you, will only buy a new truck. If I bought one new truck every 10 years, how many more new trucks could I buy? 3 maybe? So why would I want to fool around repairing, which cost $$ just like a time payment plan. And have to contend with owning a possibly unreliable truck that could leave me on the side of the road. As I get older , my tolerance for be broke down on the side of the road has greatly diminished.
 
I?ve been leasing Ford Super Dutys F250 to F550 for 25 years Since we lease the trucks we have been using magnetic signs. I was quite surprised that the signs would not stick to the doors any more. Guess they are aluminum now. The service body was fiber glass too. Guess it?s time to retire.
 
I started with my first util truck in 1975 with a 1957 F-100 short bed. Went through various trucks since, and now I have my last and final truck purchase. No more fancy trucks, no more bigger, fatter, heavier.

I found out the 06-09 Dodge 1500 with the Mega Cab is actually a 1 ton truck, but they call it a 1500! Has 1 ton brakes, suspension, shocks, diff gears, etc. I got the 4x4, tow pkg, locker diff, interior upgrade. Paid $14,000 with 96k miles about +2 years ago. It will do ANYTHING any truck needs to do. The 1 ton Dodge is rated to tow 12,700Lbs with the same exact setup, so I tow over my rated weight, and never a concern.

It now has 238k miles, and recently had the transfer case redone for $1100 and happy to pay it. Had the driver seat, center console, and some int trim refurbished. It drives like new. I will happily spend $$$$$$ keeping it nice before I do what my daugther's BF did. He went out to the stealership and ordered a new crew cab 4x4 Ford. His final bill was $66k, and he's making monthly payments on it. Yikes.
 
> What government agency is a more efficient arbiter of (pick a topic) than is the free market?

We might as well start with the biggest one, the Department of Defense. So, by your logic, we should just abolish the DoD and let each citizen contract for however much national security they think they need.

Then let's move down to Medicare. The for-profit insurance industry has no interest in selling insurance to these folks. So I guess the free market solution is to push Grandma off a cliff.

How about education? We have a lot of for-profit charter schools; they've proven that for-profit schools can provide a poorer education at a higher price than public schools and still make a profit.
 
(quoted from post at 06:46:52 06/21/19) yesterday I brought my old truck in for some work at the Dealership. while I was there I looked at the new FORD pick truck F-250 super duty. I was doing okay and till I looked at the price tag (more like price shell shock). After I really looked at it and started to think what I was looking at. Well the old truck started to look even better. What is going on with this DEEF. Exhaust additive? Is it that we make a Cad. converter so hot we have to cool it down with this additive? No wonder why we have forest fire and brush fire. I know there was a whole lot of controversy on the 6.0 Liter I.H. engine but I have kept my up on services and so far I have one good truck. If I bought a new truck with every thing that is on my truck it is the price of my first house I ever bought.Well that was only a 70,000 dollar house. So I guess I will stick with they old F-250 super duty 2006 6.0 engine heavy tow package it has worked out get so far.
Click to expand...


Sticker shock is exactly why I recently bought a 2011 crewcab 4x4 f150 ecoboost. It does everything I need it to do and has a tow capacity of the old 3/4 and 1 tons. I paid 23k for it with every single option available and 85k on the clock. Great power, decent mpg, and it just turned 105k and no major issues. If I were to buy a 2019 with the same options, I d be around 60k...
 
Not necessarily. My 81 Chevrolet 1 ton has every bit equal throttle response and drivablility as my 99 suburban which has port injection. But then, I put that one together.
 
You have drawn conclusions that are invalid but I'll not attempt to convince you of such. I learned long ago that it is both futile and frustrating to attempt to convince one of something that one does not want to believe.

For what governmental (or quasi-governmental) entity do you work?

Dean
 
(quoted from post at 17:22:16 06/21/19)
(quoted from post at 13:47:37 06/21/19)
(quoted from post at 08:56:53 06/21/19) Yup, road salt is the limiting factor for vehicle life in the north country. Drive train durability has very little to do with it.
Click to expand...

I am in NH with plenty of salt and brine on the roads, and my '06 F 350 has no significant rust.
Click to expand...

NH does not have real winter and only uses a token amount of salt .
Click to expand...


B&D, I am confident that we have far saltier roads than you!!!! I live in Rockingham county NH, which is one of the wealthiest counties in the country. We have tens of thousands of very wealthy, important people commuting into Boston every morning from the "country". The roads here are not allowed to become snow covered, because these important people would be delayed in their commute, and there are too many of them for the towns and states to allow that to happen.
 
FWIW: I also believe that you should have the freedom to check whatever boxes you desire.

One must wonder, however, how many such boxes you would actually check once discovering that your truck specs out to be tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than mine.

Dean
 
> You have drawn conclusions that are invalid but I'll not attempt to convince you of such. I learned long ago that it is both futile and frustrating to attempt to convince one of something that one does not want to believe.

That's a fancy way of saying "I give".

> For what governmental (or quasi-governmental) entity do you work?

Bad assumption on your part. Now retired, I had a 39-1/2 year long career in the aerospace and automotive industries. Certainly I'm aware of the effects, good and bad, of government regulation.
 
Another false assumption. That said, if it makes you feel better believing that I have given up, I do not mind. It may, however, be a "fancy way" of saying that I'll waste no more time on the subject.

Astonishing, regarding career. You are the first hard core supporter of big government that I have encountered who does/has not receive(d) income, directly or indirectly, therefrom. I'm a bit shocked.

Dean
 

Wait till the 2020 Super Duties come out, Ford is introducing a new 7.3 liter gas engine for the 2020 models.
It a pushrod engines, no overhead cams, better low end torque and better fuel milage than the current gas Super Duty models.
I love a good diesel engine but I'm done with these new emissions overloaded diesels of today.

My 04 6.0 powered F-450 blew the engine at 95k miles, we swapped in a 12 valve Cummins and have no plans of replacing it.
We went truck shopping back in January, using the online truck builder app helped a lot. We didn't have to have all of the fancy price adding gadgets that many are hung on today. We don't need heated steering wheel, air circulating seats, the latest Nav system, the wife and I prefer cloth seats rather than leather.
We found the best truck for the dollar for our needs was the base Ford XL model with the STX package, this gives one a nice looking truck with fancy wheels, power windows, power mirrors, door locks, upgraded cloth interior with manual seats and a nice stereo. With towing package and trailer brake controller the truck was still priced in the mid $40k range, still a lot of money but the majority of the pickups on a dealer lot in the $50-60K+ range.

Ended up finding a used 15k mile lease return with the specs we wanted for $30k, we're happy with it.

mvphoto38127.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 05:00:28 06/22/19)
(quoted from post at 17:22:16 06/21/19)
(quoted from post at 13:47:37 06/21/19)
(quoted from post at 08:56:53 06/21/19) Yup, road salt is the limiting factor for vehicle life in the north country. Drive train durability has very little to do with it.
Click to expand...

I am in NH with plenty of salt and brine on the roads, and my '06 F 350 has no significant rust.
Click to expand...

NH does not have real winter and only uses a token amount of salt .
Click to expand...



B&D, I am confident that we have far saltier roads than you!!!! I live in Rockingham county NH, which is one of the wealthiest counties in the country. We have tens of thousands of very wealthy, important people commuting into Boston every morning from the "country". The roads here are not allowed to become snow covered, because these important people would be delayed in their commute, and there are too many of them for the towns and states to allow that to happen.
Click to expand...

I'll take that wager and raise you one. I drive on highway 21 and Bruce County Road 23. Both are kept open with ploughing and salt to allow staff travel to and from the nuclear plant.
No shortage of low cost Salt as it mined at Goderich less than an hour away.
 
I just wanted to point out that this is the longest thread that I can remember in my 12 years of reading here. I also need a new truck.
 

Local dealership is advertising as USED PU with 12K on it for something near $60K. My '97 F350 is getting some work done now and I'm going to do what I can to make it last another 20 years.
 
(quoted from post at 06:00:28 06/22/19)

I am in NH with plenty of salt and brine on the roads, and my '06 F 350 has no significant rust.
Click to expand...

NH does not have real winter and only uses a token amount of salt .[/quote]

If you look up salt useage on roads, you will find out that
Mass
Vermont
NY
&
NH
In the above order use the most road salt tonnage per lane, per mile of roadway.
As reported by state highway maintenance departments.
 
(quoted from post at 12:34:57 06/23/19)
(quoted from post at 06:00:28 06/22/19)

I am in NH with plenty of salt and brine on the roads, and my '06 F 350 has no significant rust.
Click to expand...

NH does not have real winter and only uses a token amount of salt .
Click to expand...


B&D, I am confident that we have far saltier roads than you!!!! I live in Rockingham county NH, which is one of the wealthiest counties in the country.[/quote]

Our roads are white with salt, not white with snow .
 
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