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Hand cranking how hard is it

grandpa Love

grandpa Love

Well-known Member
Well ....the fun is wearing off
the hand crank! It sometimes takes
25-30 tries to get it to start.
Please help! Tips? Tricks? Thanks!
Oh and sometimes it cranks on the
3rd or 4th try!
 
Can you hear the impulse trip every time you crank it or is it an off and on thing. If it does not work every time it can cause a problem like that
 
I got a minnie Moline u and I can't even turn it over with the crank. It's like I'm trying to crank start a small block V8
 
That's part of the learning curve...

Remember what you did when it started good for you.

Once you get the choke and throttle position down, it should get easier.

It helps, or really is a necessity, to have everything right, the ignition system, carb, valves set, fresh clean gas. If it's down on compression it's going to be hard to start.

You might also try blocking the clutch down, especially in cold weather. That will make it easier to crank through. Multi grade oil helps too.
 
its as simple as tuning up the tractor to factory spec's, including the carb properly adjusted and any hand crank tractor should be running on the third pull. there is no way in heck that I could pull the crank 25 times on my WD40 with 460 CID. it starts on the third pull . 2 pulls with the choke on , open choke and starts on third pull. very consistently.
 
Every motor I have has a trick to starting.

Jubilee and farmall C, throttle on idle no choke until it fires then it needs choke. If not in idle no start.
20 hp kohler command, start cranking and then apply choke. After it fires, remove most of the choke. Throttle a little faster than idle.
20 hp honda, full choke before cranking, after it starts it needs almost full choke. In winter, needs some choke for about 10 minutes.
17 hp kawasaki, like the 20 hp kohler command.
17 hp kohler, full choke before start cranking, throttle is in full to apply choke. Remove choke and it starts to die, then choke for a second and it will start to die again. Do this a few times and all is fine.
Jubilee was difficult to start before I replaced points and condenser.
Some smaller engines on generator, tiller, and motors I only use once a year, a shot of either on air filter is the only way to wake them up.
My point it every engine is a little different. Good luck finding the trick.
 
I see a whole assortment of ideas. With my Gravely Commercial C-10 machine it was driving me crazy. It is a magneto coil under the flywheel type Kholer K series engine. In cold weather I was toast because it had the snow blower on it. You need to try HI-Test gas for a few weeks. Drain the tank and pour in several gallons of hi-test. Set the air mix screw and main jet correctly for a higher umph gas. I have my magneto on the "L" Gravely machine set to klick just before TDC by maybe 2 degrees. The Commercial Gravely with the Kohler engine in winter wouldn't start at all in real cold weather. Changed to 5-20 synthetic blend oil. But the next step fixed it. Bought 5 gallons of 100 octane gas at the airport. Machine starts everytime you push the button. Like magic. All of my lawn and Garden tractors I only run Hi-Test .Please Try it. As others have said you need to find the throttle, choke, and lolliop set of magic settings.
 
I assume you are talking about your AC model B. I had one just like it. I spent way to much time tuning and timing that thing and it would still be a bear to hand start. Sometimes it would start on the first pull. The next day you would crank your brains out and no go. The next day one pull and running. I finally got so tired of it that I sold it. I saw it a few years latter in a junk yard. I new it was my old one because of some tell tale dings and dents. I guess the guy I sold it to got tired of it also.
 
My F-20 starts first crank, but I have a sequence to start it. First I turn magneto to off, turn gas on, pull choke, turn 3 times, unchoke it, turn mag on, and first crank it starts, and this is when it has sit all winter. You might not be letting it get enough fuel to fire, especially if you run gas out of carb when you stop it. Just a thought
 
If the mag is right, the impulse is functioning properly, the fuel is fresh and the engine is not (or has not been recently) flooded, they will almost start themselves.

If the mag is not right or the impulse is not functioning properly, you are better off pull starting it.

Dean
 
I don't think I would be playing with it if you didn't have to. People used to get seriously injured or killed with a hand crank.
 
One other stupid possibility. Change the plugs. See if you can cross them to a number for NGK Plugs. I have very good luck with them.
 
Just like people, each one has its own personality. You have to get inside its brain and figure it out. For my "L" Case if it's cold you have to hold the choke closed for 2 clicks on the crank then open choke and it will start on next turn. Have throttle about 1/4 open. If it's warm from just running then you have to open throttle about 1/2 and don't choke it. It will then start on 2nd crank. Once you figure it out, wright it down and throw note in tool box.
 
If they are tuned properly they should start on a couple of pulls, our Farmall C does. And if they are timed right it is not dangerous. Notice I said pull, not crank! When we got married my FIL gave me a Farmall A for a dowry, crank start with a mag. He told me never push down on a crank, that's how people get hurt.
 
You might want to keep on the lookout for a parts B or C with electric start,pretty easy to change things out with a parts tractor.Then you can use a distributor,buy a good parts tractor
for what a mag rebuild will cost.
 
Get the wife to hold one of the spark plug wires while you crank it over(LOL) Seriously those mags have to be timed right internally if someone has had the mag cap off that might be the problem.Or points in the mag may be gummed up a little and need filing just like dist. points.
 
Make sure you have good spark from your mag, good spark plugs and that the impulse is working. Also make sure it's getting gas. I have two row crop Oliver 80s, one Hart-Parr 18-28, and a McCormick 10-20. They all start on 4 pulls or less. The B Allis will take 7 or 8 pulls. And the 27 John Deere D, well, that SOB will start when ever it feels like it.
 
Agreed, I have quite a few of them. Good hot mag that is timed correctly is imperative. You must also pay attention to the tractors individual quirks and adjust to them. I started 4 of mine just last week that had not been run since last fall and I don't think I pulled the crank 15 times to start all of them.
 
At cranking speed a good mag should produce a spark that jumps about 1/2".

Make sure that your plug wires are good and rig up a fixture to hold one or more at 3/8" or so from ground and watch it while you or someone push the crank slowly until you hear the impulse snap.

Note: The impulse should SNAP, not just click. I have seem mags in which the tar in the windings has flowed into the mechanism causing the mag to turn hard. The tractor will still run and sometimes crank start with difficulty but impulse operation is poor resulting in hard starting.

Dean
 
On a cold start leave the switch off & the choke fully on. Give the crank 2 or3 compressions, then open the choke & turn on the switch. It should fire & run on the next compression. If not the mag may need attention. I never want them to fire with the choke closed.
 
Crank starting is something that i have no desire to do anymore . I had a crank try and eat me and can show you the scare next to my right eye and the lump on my right elbow from a crank . And that crank is now resting in the bottom of the old irrigation pond in about 30 feet of water at my uncles old farm . Plum refuse to even work on anything with a crank start.
 
Grampa Love, let's assume the engine is willing to start, after you've checked everything out. You haven't said anything about it kicking back, so it sounds like the impulse is okay. The mag should fire a degree or two AFTER TDC at cranking speed. The impulse takes care of the timing advance after the engine starts. When the crank engages the jaws and you feel resistance, the crank handle should hang at about the five or six o'clock position. If it's at nine o'clock or three o'clock, it's working against you, and the crank jaw on the pulley is probably off by ninety degrees. Stand to the left of the crank, facing the radiator, grip the crank with your right hand, placing your thumb on the same side of the handle as your fingers. Now here's the trick- pull up SHARPLY on the crank, and continue to pull right up to twelve o'clock. The arc of the crank handle must cover about 180 degrees. It takes longer to try to explain this than it takes to do it, but try it a couple of times with the ignition off, and you'll get a feel for it. The long cranking arc can turn a "maybe" into a start. This technique also works on single cylinder British motorcycles. As one poster remarked, never stand in front of the crank like you were winding up the engine. I saw a young fellow at a tractor pull winding up his Massey-Harris this way. If the timing was a little off, or the impulse less than perfect, he was bucking for the nickname "Lefty"- or worse.
When a crank start engine is in correct tune, they start easily on two or three cranks. Electric starters tend to mask tuning issues- you just crank till it starts. You must be on a friendly and personal basis with a crank start machine. When they won't start, they lead to frustration and impure thoughts, but when everything is right, you can show them off and impress friends and neighbours.
A MM U model is a good starter and a heck of a tractor. It might just take a little tinkering. unc
 
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