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Hey mathematicains----

big tee

big tee

Well-known Member
I am not a math man-or an artist-How many lbs. of pull will it take to pull the tractor the rest of the way into the trailer figuring the rear wheels on the ground and the front end is in the trailer? I can't drive it in for there is only two ins. of clearance between the steering wheel and the trailer ceiling. Is there a formula to figure this out? In other words--how big of a winch do I need?--THANKS---Tee
cvphoto12594.jpg

Six ft. ramp--22 ins of lift 4000 rear axle weight= lbs. of pull????
 
I can't do that kind of math , but if your winch is too small you can use a snatch block and increase the pulling power.
 
My math may be a little rusty as I have been out of teaching it almost 21 years, but using the sine of the angle is .309, to you would need 1.31 times the force needed to pull it on level ground.
 

Weight of the tractor has little to do with it. It's how hard it is to pull. If the tires are flat or fully inflated will change everything.

Rick
 
Pulling on the top of the rear tire wit a cable running down th back center of the tread takes 1/2 the force of direct pulling. Jim
 
assuming a static friction of .25, and going up the ramp of 22 inches, I come up with a 2000 lb pull, with a FOS of 2-- I would use a 4000lb winch. or a 2000 lb winch with a snatch block on the tractor
 
To figure the sine on the angle you must divide 72 into 22-then what? I have no idea what it takes to pull it on level ground--Thanks---Tee
 
i would say 0. what i would do would be make a tow bar with a hitch a both ends and push it in with another tractor hooked drawbar to drawbar this way you can control the tractor from rolling forward and possibly pinning someone or damaging the trailer.
 
bigger is better, do you have anchor point in the front of the trailer run a cable from the tractor to an anchor point in the front of the trailer then snatch block it back out under it to pickup, tractor or what ever, or just push it in
 
C'mon Big Tee, everybody who ever drove a tractor knows what FOS means. Below is a link for 107 choices, take your pick. Meanwhile, I would say it means ... Full Of S*** ..... yikes !!! You know, engineering terminology !!
Acronyms for FOS
 
You would need to know the height of cable attachment to the tractor, length of the trailer, and how high the winch is mounted to get the angle of the cable.

This is assuming the trailer is level, tractor is in neutral, no brakes and tires inflated to normal pressure.

Let us know.
 
Winches are rated for maximum pull on an EMPTY spool. Once you get full wraps of cable on the spool, their pulling power is greatly reduced.

For example, the Harbor Freight 12,000lb rated winch is reduced to 9517lbs pull on the 2nd wrap, and 7885lbs pull on the 3rd wrap, per the owner's manual.

Harbor Freight winches are excellent values, especially if you use a coupon, and there are coupons for winches almost every month out of the year.

Theoretically a 6000lb winch on the first wrap could lift your tractor completely off the ground, so it should easily be able to pull your tractor as a rolling load up a modest incline. However, you can't have too much winch.

I personally have a 9000lb winch on the front of my trailer, but I haven't had a chance to test it yet. I have also pulled a 3500lb IH 240 Utility up on to my deckover trailer with a 2000lb winch single pull. It BARELY made it.
 
Probably over kill but I'd go with a 4k lb winch,if you needed more winch you probably don't have anything in the trailer to hold it.Also a small snatch block would be good as most winches
I've used run too fast anyway.
 
You have a lot of info here and a few things to digest.
Did you know that I can move a 3,000 pound car? I only weigh 250.
I must be Hercules!
No? Ok. Maybe not.
How about rolling resistance? That machine might weigh in at 3 or 4,000 pounds, but does not need 4,000 pounds to make it move.
Knock off the tires and wheels and then you might have a problem.
That is one consideration.
A snatch block uses twice as much cable and effectively doubles the rating of the winch.
So now that 4,000 pound machine can probably be moved with a 2K winch and a snatch block.
I have a Warn 12K winch/125' 3/8 cable and a snatch block or three. Cinder blocks on front of the tires and There is not much that won't move even with a full cable drum.
There was this tree stump once, but it was connected to a planet called Earth at the time. . . .
 
I have a 8000 lb. Warn to pull my tractor on if it's dead. Will pull it on with one tire scooting with a snatch block.
 
I get the same thing. about 2000lbs depending on tires, tire pressure ect.

if you're short on pulling power you could pump the tires up more and save some rolling resistance. keep steering wheels straight will help with rolling resistance too.

if you use something like a "come-a-long" put blocks behind the wheels in case it gets away from you you won't have to start over again from scratch.
 
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

as soon as you get just a little off of being perfectly flat weight have everything to do with it.

his 6000lb tractor needs about 2000lbs of pull to get up the ramp

if it was a 12000lb tractor it would need about 4000lbs of pull.
 
The math is actually pretty simple. There are two parts, rolling friction and lift.

The rolling friction would the same force to move the tractor on level ground. I can push my 3000 lbs tractor on concrete. So I would guess a very conservative estimate to overcome the rolling friction is 500lbs of force. I think it will be lower but not too far off.

The force to lift the tractor into the trailer is 6000lbs x 22inch rise / 72inch run = 1833lbs. This is the force to overcome gravity.

The sum is 1833lbs + 500lbs = 2333lbs

Watch the rating on winches. Winches are rated in pounds of the item being pulled not the actual force they produce. I really don't think a 10,000lb winch can dead lift 10,000lbs straight up.
 
All things being equal on the tractor you are correct. But a 12k pulling tractor will likely load easier than a 6k fence row find, which I believe was his point. I know it doesn't apply here, but he was not wrong.
 
Make you a push bar to load it at home and just trade some cold beers to get some kids to help you at the pull.
How will you be able to drive up to the trailer once you scatter the motor...you have to plan for this since your not pulling a deere anymore!
 
Well Denny; that was informative, wasn't it???? There was only one good honest answer by T Farmer that showed any common and practical sense, and as he said a 4000# winch is overkill, but, I can guaranteed it to get the job done at 2:00am in the morning after a long day of "fun".
Winches weren't even around when the pyramids were built.
Loren
 
4520--You really know how to hurt a guy! Have 2 tow bars already 7 footer and a 12 footer--It is hard to run both tractors when you are by yourself sometimes. Why don't I hire you to be my truck driver like NASCAR and I could jet to the pulls?---Tee
 
Hey Loren--I am a little confused--Does the angle of the dangle have anything to do with this?---Tee
 
How are you going to get around it to tie it down once it is in the trailer? Trailer has front side door? Just wondering. I think just about any winch should pull it in there.

Garry
 
I agree with the 2300 lbs. but you need to pull against something that can handle that force. Will the front of the trailer take the pull?
 
If you have too steep of an angle, your toes are going to get wet.
Oh, maybe you were talking about your trailer ramp!! Park you trailer wheels in a low spot. Less angle of dangle and hauler can lift the tractor. See, I have an answer for everything.
Loren
 
Other Winch Size Considerations

Based on the weight of your rolling load and the slope of your trailer's ramps, you can find the minimum winch to do the job. But you should also remember that winches are rated based on the first layer of rope, where they have the greatest power. In practice, your winch will probably have more than 1 layer of rope on the drum when it is working and will be pulling at less than its maximum. Winches lose from 13% 25% of their pulling power with each wrap of rope on the winch drum. Because of this, etrailer.com recommends using a winch with a line pull capacity equal to that of the load being moved. You can increase the pulling power of a winch by using a pulley block. A pulley block can nearly double the winch's capacity by simply attaching the pulley block's hook directly to the load and the winch's hook to a sturdy mount near the winch.
 
Using Not worrying about the normal force, if we do a free body diagram where Fw=4000lbs, the rise is 22", the hypotenuse is 72", I roughly calculated the F needed or Fin to be about 1000lbs. Now add a snatch to that and you can bring it down to 500lbs on each side of the cable.

Now there is no drag from the machine considered.
 
(quoted from post at 18:45:13 02/11/19) Other Winch Size Considerations

Based on the weight of your rolling load and the slope of your trailer's ramps, you can find the minimum winch to do the job. But you should also remember that winches are rated based on the first layer of rope, where they have the greatest power. In practice, your winch will probably have more than 1 layer of rope on the drum when it is working and will be pulling at less than its maximum. Winches lose from 13% 25% of their pulling power with each wrap of rope on the winch drum. Because of this, etrailer.com recommends using a winch with a line pull capacity equal to that of the load being moved. You can increase the pulling power of a winch by using a pulley block. A pulley block can nearly double the winch's capacity by simply attaching the pulley block's hook directly to the load and the winch's hook to a sturdy mount near the winch.
Click to expand...

That's what I said earlier, and I even quoted numbers from the owner's manual, but apparently it's all nonsense according to Adirondack Case Guy...

Looks like he only needs 2000lbs of pull, so he should get a $50 2000lb winch from Harbor Freight, or any 2000lb winch at any price from anywhere, and see how it works for him.

I mean jeez, we're talking about an investment of no more than $300 to get a winch that will lift the tractor AND TRAILER vertically off the ground, so it's not like he has to have this calculated out to 4 decimal places...
 
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