How about this

Direct injection on a tractor
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There are a couple of fellows that are selling kits for some models of tractors. I do not know of anyone that has bought one. There was a fellow at the Half Century show displaying/selling one for JD 3020/4030s. IRC it was like $2000 or some number like that.

To me a fuel injection system, and the required electronics, make a simple tractor more complicated. So it is going the wrong way for most of the people that own older tractors. I would rather repower them with a diesel motor over paying big money for an fuel injections system.

Also it is a dwindling market too. Even the JD 4020 is not use on many farms anymore as a the main tractor. Some but not many. So the cost benefit ratio is not in favor of installing one on a parade tractor.

Will one of the OEM companies make new gas powered tractors??? Maybe in the smaller horsepower sizes. They would have all the electronics controls and emissions systems. I would not be interested just from the stand point of keeping gas fuel around. Few of the motors on the farm are gas powered. We even switched to diesel mowers a few years ago. If I could find a good 5-10 HP diesel motor for liquid pumps I would not have any gas motors left other than the antique tractors.

Does the fuel injection really help economy that much ? It sure doesn?t on heavy trucks better than a carburetor but still not close to a Diesel engine when used heavy and the diesel does even better under light load

I haven't heard of it on a tractor, but then I don't know of any gas tractors being built now.

And I don't think any medium or heavy duty truck engines are using it either.

Unless they have worked out some problems, the GDI systems were maintenance and oil specific critical. Any neglect or variation from specified oil would be catastrophic.

And then there is the intake deposit problem. No fuel flowing across the back side of the intake valve to keep deposits washed off. Once the guide and seal start leaking, the carbon builds until the valve can't breathe and/or a big chunk breaks loose and holds the valve open of gets on top of the piston.

I don't see that being an add on.

It would require boring into the combustion chamber somehow, not a practical thing to try to do. Or having to replace the entire head, not cheap!

Steve the kits I saw are more of a throttle body kit. Injecting into an intake manifold. This is what David has on his MN tractor.

For a "new" OEM factory setup could be done. I am sure the technology would be easily derived from the auto world. I am just not sure it the market is there for it.

(quoted from post at 01:28:55 02/11/19) Steve the kits I saw are more of a throttle body kit. Injecting into an intake manifold. This is what David has on his MN tractor.

For a "new" OEM factory setup could be done. I am sure the technology would be easily derived from the auto world. I am just not sure it the market is there for it.

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ell, he did say, "direct injection". Mean what you say & say what you mean!

Plenty of those old JD and others brands that size being used in hay making areas of the Eastern part of the country.

GM dealer has a display showing two intake valves. One the stem is clean the other with deposits. Display is showing why we should use gas with more detergents, top tier.

11 years ago I bought my first termite with a 20 hp kohler command. Had to grind the valves because carbon deposits came off the valve stem and valve wouldn't seal properly. Engine only had 430 hours on it. I wounder if this problem isn't the reason why some people hate kohlers? I have almost 2000 hours on engine and still running, doesn't use oil.

Yes, that's common, been around the automotive field for a long time, a simple throttle body carb replacement.

What David was posting is GDI, gas direct injection, where the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber, like a diesel.

Whole different animal.

About using top tier gasoline, that would have minimal effect on a GDI engine.

Reason is, no gas passes the intake valve, only air, EGR gasses (if equipped), and any oil that makes it past the guide seal.

That's the problem, guides eventually wear, especially if sealed tight with no lubrication. Once the guide/stem wears, the seal fails, oil starts coming down, and no gas to keep it washed off. The carbon grows until the flow is restricted or a chunk breaks off and goes where it shouldn't!

Interesting, if anyone could build it I'd believe Bosch could. Diesel engines still have the advantage of more BTU per gallon than gas though. Even diesel semi trucks are increasing fuel mileage with better fuel management and more efficient turbocharging. Years ago most every semi left huge clouds of black smoke at every stoplight, don't see that now like before.

I think here JD is right. Not enough of them old tractors in day to day operation.

Actually you have 2 issues. One the guys using those old tractors often can't afford newer/better. And 2, lot of the guys using those old tractor already have fuel injection because they are the diesel models.

Most companies, like Bosch do market research before taking a product to market. That's so they can determine how many they can sell. If they can sell just a handful can they sell them for enough to be profitable or will the cost be too high? I don't know but I doubt that they can sell enough EFI kits for tractor conversions to make it profitable. Gotta remember, not only would they have to get it set up for each tractor model they would also have to get it past the EPA. The EPA has shown that they would like to see farming greatly curtailed and that they would like to see all older tractors disappear. So is it worth it?

TF that's where you are both wrong and right. Yea in some areas there are a lot of older tractors still being used. Most of the folks using them can't afford 2-3K, maybe more to convert to EFI. And 2-3 K buys a lot of gas. No not all the gas, just the difference between what the stock system burns and what EFI would burn. And when they run those tractors maybe 100-200 hours a year? Just not cost effective.

As far as them making a gas tractor again new? I really doubt that will happen. Just not enough sales. Plus with current EPA regulations most guys are not going to be able to do much more than change plugs, oil and filters. Like with a modern car you are going to have to be able to pull codes from a computer to troubleshoot and correct faults.

Rick

Yes. Agree. I was confirming that carbon built up on stem can cause value problems.

Good reason to use detergent in gas or buy top tier.

George, what it is that you are calling "top tier?" Premium? A "better" brand of standard gasoline? Or is it just another buzz word?

First thing that I think of is octane. Buying more octane than your engine requires is simply a waste of money. Too much high octane fuel can actually damage your engine over the long term.

Octane refers mostly to the rate of combustion of a fuel. Also refers to Reid Vapor pressure. The higher the octane, the slower it burns in the engine and the lower the vapor pressure as I understand it. Using high octane in a low compression engine should lead to increased HC emissions I would think. As far as differences in brand, there aren't as much as you think. I know a couple of guys that deliver gasoline in this area. They have told me many times that it all comes out of the same pipe. Additives are added at the terminal after the tanker is loaded according to where it is delivering.

As I see it, there is no such thing as "top tier" fuel. It all comes out of the same pipe!

(quoted from post at 13:12:01 02/11/19) George, what it is that you are calling "top tier?" Premium? A "better" brand of standard gasoline? Or is it just another buzz word?

First thing that I think of is octane. Buying more octane than your engine requires is simply a waste of money. Too much high octane fuel can actually damage your engine over the long term.

Octane refers mostly to the rate of combustion of a fuel. Also refers to Reid Vapor pressure. The higher the octane, the slower it burns in the engine and the lower the vapor pressure as I understand it. Using high octane in a low compression engine should lead to increased HC emissions I would think. As far as differences in brand, there aren't as much as you think. I know a couple of guys that deliver gasoline in this area. They have told me many times that it all comes out of the same pipe. Additives are added at the terminal after the tanker is loaded according to where it is delivering.

As I see it, there is no such thing as "top tier" fuel. It all comes out of the same pipe!

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say that you answered your own question............the additive package!!!!! :roll:

I did not know what George ment by his recommendation of top-tier gasoline. As it turns out, I have been using it all along. I buy gas at Costco and just noticed a sticker on their pump that shows top-tier. Says it has all the proper additives.

Yanmar model L70 and L100 are excellent air cooled diesel engines and will preform your needs.

(quoted from post at 10:12:01 02/11/19) George, what it is that you are calling "top tier?" Premium? A "better" brand of standard gasoline? Or is it just another buzz word?

First thing that I think of is octane. Buying more octane than your engine requires is simply a waste of money. Too much high octane fuel can actually damage your engine over the long term.

Octane refers mostly to the rate of combustion of a fuel. Also refers to Reid Vapor pressure. The higher the octane, the slower it burns in the engine and the lower the vapor pressure as I understand it. Using high octane in a low compression engine should lead to increased HC emissions I would think. As far as differences in brand, there aren't as much as you think. I know a couple of guys that deliver gasoline in this area. They have told me many times that it all comes out of the same pipe. Additives are added at the terminal after the tanker is loaded according to where it is delivering.

As I see it, there is no such thing as "top tier" fuel. It all comes out of the same pipe!

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LOL yes gas is all the same as it comes out the pipe. But as it goes in the tanker it gets blended with what's called additives. Those additives are what makes up the difference. Top tier is referring to the additive package. They are not all there same. Brand A may use a mid range injector cleaner in thier gas. Brand B may use the same cleaner but only 1/2 as much. Brand C may use a better cleaner and more of it. What's funny to me is the claim that all gas is the same. Good example. If I burn BP or Sinclair we get about 19.5 in our 2013 Yukon. If I burn Cenex that drops to 16. And that with running a couple of tanks through to give the computer time to compensate. And even worse, let me find a state that I can get E zero gas. Mileage goes up another 2 MPG.

Rick

I read the owners manual on my new car. It said use top tier fuel only. I had to google top tier to find out there is more detergent added to fuel. Not all gas stations sell top tier.

Google top tier fuel and you'll see there are about 75 gas stations that sell top tier fuel which has more detergent than the EPA minimum. Phillips 66 has a sign on their pumps that say they have 3x the EPA minimum. Top Tier has nothing to do with octane rating, detergent additive only.

I know a man who is an engineer for a RR that haul tankers from Robinson refinery. I asked him to ask a worker at refinery if they have different detergents for different brands of gas. Marathon has signs on their pumps with King Richard saying their gas has STP added. Shell have V-tech or something. The RR engineer got back to be and said all the top tier fuel has the same detergent.

Does anyone know if the engineer was told the truth?

Ford started using direct port injection in the F-150's in 2018.
Our 2018 F-150 with 5.0 has some version of direct port injection.
I've been reading about the oil deposits on the valve issue, it appears to be more of a oil carryover from the pct system than from the valve guides.
Some are incorporating some type of catch can device to trap the oil carryover.
Appears to be more of a issue on the turbo charged 2.7 and 3.5 eco boost engines.

Darn auto correct, should have been PCV system

IMHO, it is all smoke and mirrors.

Just a new buzzword to fleece us out of more money.