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How long can you last?

M

modirt

Member
Weather events seem to trigger folks into action....buying bread and milk......it's always bread and milk. Of it a hurricane is in the making, they run out to buy plywood. Or at least that is the image we get on the TV news.

But the question is....in the case of an unforeseen natural or man made disaster.......how long can you last? How long can you fend for yourself if cutoff from the outside world due to a massive ice storm, power outage, etc?

Sadly for some, it may be hours once the power goes out and lights go dark. One hiccup away from being in serious trouble. Others.....weeks. My personal feeling is we should all be able to last out a week if need be.

So how long can YOU last? And how do you do it?
 
Could probably go a month. Depends on when we last bought things we can't make. Then if we don't have to have some things. I mean if you run out of milk it is not a terrible thing to not have some things like that for a week or more. Sure it is nice still don't have to have them to survive. We can, some foods freeze some, and stock some. Things might be pretty slim by a month though. Oatmeal stores a long time and will make a lot of breakfast.
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:31 02/02/19) Weather events seem to trigger folks into action....buying bread and milk......it's always bread and milk. Of it a hurricane is in the making, they run out to buy plywood. Or at least that is the image we get on the TV news.

But the question is....in the case of an unforeseen natural or man made disaster.......how long can you last? How long can you fend for yourself if cutoff from the outside world due to a massive ice storm, power outage, etc?

Sadly for some, it may be hours once the power goes out and lights go dark. One hiccup away from being in serious trouble. Others.....weeks. My personal feeling is we should all be able to last out a week if need be.

So how long can YOU last? And how do you do it?
Click to expand...
I've always got at least enough beer to last a week.
 
Whew! That's a relief. By the title of this thread I thought it was about one of those computer porn games.
 
In this day and time there are very few places in the civilized world that can get stranded for more than a day or two. I see no point in the frantic "stocking up" with bread and milk.

Seems that whenever a storm is forecast, the panic starts, stores sell out of bread and milk, and when the storm does come - if that even happens - it is usually a non-event. So, what do these folks do with all of that extra bread and milk? Does the milk spoil and the bread get stale and moldy? And do these items end up being thrown out?

It seems a shame for people to be so wasteful. Also, in my opinion, anybody that believes in weather forecasters must also believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, and the Great Pumpkin.
 
Something series and not killed or harmed in the happening. Biggest problem to survive would probably be other people in the area taking what you have or killing you for it. Depends on how wide spread the disaster is.
 
Hi, Mrs Jegs here....
We could potentially survive without leaving our property for 6-9 months! We have a 6 month supply of freeze dried foods, as well as a large supply of
home canned foods. Our chickens will provide us with eggs, and meat if needed. I also have a very large supply of heritage seeds ( it was sold as the
"Arma-garden" seed collection), and a large garden bed. If we needed to remain home bound through the summer months, our food sources would
increase even more. Obviously, the use of the word "survive" indicates that's all we would be doing, comfort and all the little extras would be long
gone. But it does feel good to know that we could lock our doors to the outside world and still be around come next fall if need be. Yeah, I'm a little bit
of a fanatic about things like this...
 
Well I'm not with the prepper / off the grid crowd, but I don't have to think back too far to remember major ice storms that left folks without power in sub-freezing temps for as long as 5 days. And it is more than just stockpiles of food.

When the power goes off, panic sets in. Then it's always "help me, help me, somebody help me"!

So the point of asking is for those who have never thought of it, what would you do if the power was off for 5 days? No refrigeration, no heat (if you central heat requires power to operate....and that includes fans), and if you are on a well, no power to run the pumps, so no water to drink. Perhaps no way to cook the foods you have hoarded?

So what are the backups for heat, cooking and water that will allow you to ride out the outage for a few days?
 
Probably 4 or 5 months here. Everyone should have a few weeks supply of food stored away.
Grocery stores only have about 3 days supply in their storerooms. Less if a disaster occurs.
We plan on getting more prepared if this years garden is better than last years. Total disaster last year.
We have 4 canners in my shop but only use 2 of them usually.
Got plenty of ammo locked away.
 
Good amount of wood on hand to finish out the Winter,good supply of canned food,pretty good amount of fuel,have gravity flow water available from a spring,good supply of Ammo for my
firearms,lots of animals I can slaughter to eat both wild and domestic.If we had to we could last a long time,also have a good supply of vegetable seed for the spring planting plus raised
beds that don't require any machinery to work up.
 
If you have a gas/diesel power generator and it burns one gallon an hour I believe that would be 4320 gallons of fuel in 6 months. Don't think many people have that amount of fuel on hand.
 
I'm not in bad shape for quite awhile actually. I've got a solar back up power system that takes care of all the essentials, 1 big chest freezer, with this years venison and last years at this time. It powers both refrigerators, oil furnace for heat, well pump and most of the other circuits in the house. I can run my welder to bulk charge the battery bank in an hour if cloudy or dark etc. That will provide power for days, all depends on what is in use. I cannot run central A/C, but a window unit is no trouble. Can't run washer/dryer or stove. I can use the Weber grille for cooking, keep 2 20lb tanks on hand. There is plenty of wildlife around, I have a nice garden spot next to my back door, close to the kitchen. I've got a woodstove and more wood than I can process for heat. Fortunately, I have a lot to work with, be nice to have some livestock, say chickens for eggs. Also have plenty of beer, seems I never drink as much as I buy, just one a day. Takes a little while to rotate that stock through, seasonally it moves, but that's really not a staple, more of a luxury to enjoy at the end of the day. Short term, no issue at all, long term would be a lot different. I cannot imagine what would happen when something real long term happened and people start roaming to steal, whole 'nuther ball game there LOL !
 
Made it 5 days with no problems a few years ago after a ice storm. 20 degree temps. Small Generator to pump water. Recharge the
frig a couple of times a day. One of those kerosine heaters kept the house at 65 or so. Grill to cook on. Bout the worst was no
warm shower. Lots of frozen and canned food in this house. Could make a it month if needed.
 
(quoted from post at 09:31:51 02/02/19)
(quoted from post at 14:12:31 02/02/19) Weather events seem to trigger folks into action....buying bread and milk......it's always bread and milk. Of it a hurricane is in the making, they run out to buy plywood. Or at least that is the image we get on the TV news.

But the question is....in the case of an unforeseen natural or man made disaster.......how long can you last? How long can you fend for yourself if cutoff from the outside world due to a massive ice storm, power outage, etc?

Sadly for some, it may be hours once the power goes out and lights go dark. One hiccup away from being in serious trouble. Others.....weeks. My personal feeling is we should all be able to last out a week if need be.

So how long can YOU last? And how do you do it?
Click to expand...
I've always got at least enough beer to last a week.
Click to expand...
That reminds me I need to buy beer.
We're good for 6-7 days comfortably. Generator, fuel, minimum 200 gals fuel for heat. Spare propane tanks for supplement heat if needed. Not much impact as long as it doesn't last to long. Try to keep lots of canned goods and frozen meat on hand. Just stocked up last weekend good for at least a month. My wife and I always have extra for the neighbors(all family) Big turkey and several roasts in the freezer, can be made to go a long way. Home canned tomatoes, beans and so on.
If it were to last longer we can survive but may have to be without a few things can close off parts of the house and limit the fuel use to smaller areas. I still have my guns and the varmints will not be safe if we get hungry.
Without internet is scary how would I know what the YT fella's are doing?
I still worry about bad things happening but feel somewhat prepared.
 
Well,we've got a generator and a freezer full of beef,but since we don't panic and run to town to get everything "before the hoarders do",it might put us in a bad situation where bread and milk are concerned. We're only a mile from town. The wife went to the store Thursday to get a few things and,you guessed it,they didn't have any bread or milk.
 
There?s an edible bean warehouse about 3 miles away. I think the whole town could make do for quite a long time!
 
Wife always called me. Mister minute man.

I never understood these people that stock up on food. If it was not made for long time storage. It will rot before you use it.I think I could get along pretty well. Grew up poor on a farm. I would be more afraid of the others that didn't
 
. Thought we had everything we needed , then discovered that we had ran out of French’s Ketchup .
As soon as I had the five foot high snow drifts blown out of the yard and lane way . I sent the boy into town . The store only had Heinz ketchup but we managed to make do .
 
After a couple of weeks in a widespread disaster, I think it will come down to how
much ammo you have and how good of a shot you are against both 4 and 2 legged
intruders......
Ben
 
a couple months on just food in the house, we have woods full of deer, elk ect so in a emergency one might go missing, water is ok,electric is fine we have two generators here, trucks and tractors are kept full of fuel which could be used for generators if need be other niceties might be tight, i dont worry about looters, non of that type around and if they import were well stocked with weapons and ammo
 
As long as we have electricity I could be fine for weeks. Freezer full of food and ingredients enough to make bread for months. I only go to
town once a week for mail. Not because I am out of food. Our biggest problem would be if there was a sustained failure of electric power.
Frozen food would rot in the freezers in summer. In winter I'd put it outside to last longer. No electricity would mean no way to pump well
water and while I have plenty of drinking water stored, my cattle would need me to walk to the dugout every day and chop ice so they could
get a drink. Until they get used to licking snow. Home heat? I'd survive as long as the gas line has pressure. No power to run the fan but
the radiant heat from the little wall unit would keep the house livable and I have plenty of extra clothes to keep warm.
No electricity? How would we run the coolant heaters to start engines at -20F? How would they pump fuel into the tanks?
 
Probably a month. 2 freezers plus canned stuff, wood stove we could cook on plus propane stoves. Good creek through the back yard for water, so could boil water for drinking. Weak points are fuel for the generator, and generator isn't big enough to run the well pump.

We don't drink milk anymore, and don't eat much bread, so not a problem there. Make a batch of biscuits in the dutch oven once in awhile.

Wonder if horse meat is any good?
 
That's why I never wanted to live in town. This dirt out here ought to raise something for me to survive on. Am afraid my grandkids will never think that far ahead.
 
Survive ? Or go on as though nothing happened?
Until the Diesel tank runs out, go along like nothing
happened. Survive, would require a change of
lifestyle, but indefinitely. So long as the world keeps
turning, sun rises and sets, we can keep growing
crops and garden, graze cattle etc. Just no as much
or as fast.
 
We could probably last a week at any given time but we don't really prepare for it. We are in north Texas and the only real threat would be a tornado and it's kind of hard to prepare for that. The electricity and water are never off more than a few hours and we heat the house with wood anyway so if the electricity was out it would be unaffected. I keep some cash hidden on my property in the event of an emergency so we could just go somewhere.
 
Two freezers with pork, beef and lamb. Ducks,geese and goats in the barn. Natural gas well that will
keep house warm and generator running indefinitely. And I make my own BEER!
cvphoto11675.jpg
 
We will make it unless, it is a bomb that mess up our soil, would not grow for years. It would kill our animals, and water supply. Not all over, but miles from where it hit. This is what we need to pay attention to.
 
I think a tiny house off grid in the country. Guns & ammo, fishing pole, vegetable seeds. Better if you live in a warm climate though...
 
food-wise... we could last for many months.

but we have no generator if power was lost for the long term. guess we'd have to pack up the pickup or car and head south to visit YT friends in warmer climates... would bring along some food.

might get to meet bear & miss kitty in SC - or some shop cats in FL, and eat pineapple and ribs. :)
 


I've seen how it actually works out. Ice Storm of 1998. 5 million people without power initially on both sides of the NY/Ontario border - in January. Things that really stick out for me- you HAVE TO HAVE a way to get water. Most water systems are electric powered, even some town systems. Without water things go south in a matter of hours. I was working 12-16 hour days and then coming home and drawing water in 55 gal drums from a neighbor with a pto generator. He didn't have enough power to runt he milkhouse, so he was milking one at time with a bucket milker running of the vacuum petcock on a Farmall H. You HAVE TO HAVE heat in winter. We had a wood furnace in the basement, but only a little wood. Everything was glare ice and it was nearly impossible to get out to the woodlots for cut standing dead wood. Phone lines and cell towers go down. Communications during the Ice Storm were often down to people hiking out to the road and waiting for someone to pass by to carry a message. We had people, a lot of them, that had no way to get out of their places. One family, retired people, were down a steep driveway on a lake. No 4wd, propane heat, needed meds every couple days. They not only weren't willing to pay anyone to bring them 100 lbs propane tanks, they expected the town to plow them out and fire/police to get their meds for them, bring them food, etc. And yes, we had people calling 911 to see if someone could bring them beer. Pathetic losers. You need to have a least a week of staple foods. Oatmeal, bread, pancakes, burger, hotdogs, etc get boring fast, but it's better than going hungry. Of course I'm talking cold weather. In hot weather, canned goods would work. You need to keep up on meds if you require them. Most places won't give you more than a 30 supply, you might be able to work on that with your doc. Boredom- kids get bored real fast. Games, activities, etc help. Plain old checkers, card games, coloring, songs, books all help. So does getting them outside and exercising. Pet food- if you have cats and dogs, they need feeding. Lighting- the plain old kerosene lantern (Dietz fir instance) is invaluable. Candles are okay, but they are not good light. A Coleman lantern is much brighter, but noisy. 5 gallons of kero goes a long, long ways.

Do not expect people to help you. Do not expect to be able to get to a store or that the stores will have what you need. Oh, and it's a good idea to have checks on hand, if not cash, because ATM's and card reader dpon't work without power!
 
Comfortably, a week or so. As long as the gas for the generator holds out. After that we would have to take the meat in the freezers and can it. Milk, meat, and veggies would go indefinitely as long as the ground isn't poisoned. My well will gravity feed into my house. We have five wells on the property, none deeper than 25 feet, so pailing water out of them would be no problem. The biggest problem would be putting up enough firewood to heat and cook with, without gas and oil for the chainsaws. If the NG line stays up and working life would be fairly easy.
 
(quoted from post at 07:47:17 02/02/19) Survive ? Or go on as though nothing happened? So long as the world keeps
turning, sun rises and sets, we can keep growing
crops and garden, graze cattle etc. Just no as much
or as fast.
Click to expand...
Very true. My ancestors did it right on this farm for years before electricity was available and managed to get along just fine. We would have a hard time getting re-accustomed to that life style now that we have been "spoiled" by all the modern conveniences.
 
I've got a bin full of good dry corn and a grinder. A flock of chickens for eggs and meat. A woods full of deer and squirrels and rabbits. I have a big garden and we are still eating the squash and there are tomatoes in jars. Would have to come up with a way to get clean water. I have a lot of wood for fires. Probably last a lot longer than one would think.

I remember when I was a kid my mother and I pushed the sofa up to the fireplace. We sat there for a full week waiting for the lights to come on. Dad was in Europe on business. Siblings all grown and gone. It was a long long week.
 
This is a thoughtful and appropriate topic.
We have a PTO generator - probably a gallon per hour to run it.
No more than 10-15 gallons of gas sitting around in cans.
Need electric for well, propane furnace.
If a tornado took out the REA lines we would have to head for some relative in 2-3 days.
Our house is 600' from a busy road - don't think we would want our house lights on.
 
We have several wells, one has a hand pump on it.

I have my own source of electricity, and several tractors with which to run it.

I have propane, gasoline, and diesel fuel on hand at all times.

We have two refrigerators, and two chest freezers.

Maybe some day the wife will have a few chickens again.

There's only two of us. Think we can make it?

Oh, and bins full of wheat, corn, and oats. Oats would be pretty tough to handle, but then I'm sure there's probably several containers of purchased/processed oats in the kitchen.
 

This is what I'm talking about.

My guess is that with 99% of the population, 15 minutes into a power outage, most will be annoyed. 30 minutes in they are ------. An hour in and they are in full blown panic. Where will they be in 48 hours with no heat and pipes starting to freeze? No heat, no light and no way to cook food if they have it.

If prepared, most will come through an outage of several days with no harm done. That should be the goal of us all. Once it hits the fan, its too late.

So backup heat, water and ability to cook that requires no power to run. If that isn't possible, then backup power should be considered, but one that does not depend on a 5 gallon can of gas to keep it going. Big joke with Hurricane Sandy was the richy rich folks on Long Island got their little Honda generators going, but only had 10 gallons of gas. A couple days later when that ran out, they trudged off the the gas station only to find them sold out and dry. So the generators went silent.

So if the plan is a supplemental generator to keep things going, you better have a good fuel option lined up. One you can tap into a natural gas or your big propane tank should be the goal since you may not be able to get to a gas station, and keeping a supply of iffy ethanol gas ain't a good plan either.

So once it hits the fan, the burden on police, rescue, etc. is enormous. So help with that, it should almost been seen as your civic duty to fend for yourself without their help for a reasonable amount of time. I'd peg that as 5 to 7 days as the goal. You don't want to be the "pathetic loser".
 
Here in NW Oregon the power companies and government always runs ads telling us to have three days of supplies on hand for a power outage from
snow/ice/landslide taking out power. Few people do that. We have a pending threat of a large earthquake and the mantra for that is "Two Weeks
Ready" meaning food/water/meds/pet food... ; can't be that many people have that much on hand. We have plenty of supplies and a well. I think you
have to be mentally ready to be without entertainment. Without TV , internet, cell service you don't have the instant and never-ending distractions
so you have plenty of time to scare yourself. We have lots of books and board games, decks of cards. Gonna have to live by the sun and let your
days be shorter. Save your batteries and fuel for when you really need them.
Our greater metro area has a larger threat of fuel shortages long-term. There are 900 million gallons of fuel down by the river on dredged soil.
With a good quake those tanks are going to break and then the fire trucks, power company crews, police don't have the fuel they need to
restore/rebuild. We aren't going to bounce back from a big quake in two weeks. What if your office building fell down? How will you work and
earn? No money, how will you survive? There's more to it than beans and bullets. Better have some Benjamins rat-holed too. Excellent topis and I
appreciate the honest answers.
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:05 02/02/19) If you have a gas/diesel power generator and it burns one gallon an hour I believe that would be 4320 gallons of fuel in 6 months. Don't think many people have that amount of fuel on hand.
Click to expand...
two hours a day should keep the freezer from thawing .
 
If we had no electricity at all Marilyn and I could last quite awhile on the veggies we have in the freezers but it would get boring fast. We don't keep much meat on hand. The freezers are in the cold garage so they wouldn't warm up all that fast. We heat with two propane heaters that don't need electricity so we would stay warm. Water would be the problem now that we have a submersible pump. When we had the pump jack on the well we could belt an old tractor to the pump but that won't happen now. I do have an old military gasoline powered standby generator and about 200 gallons of gasoline so as long as it runs.

The major problem in my area is not especially we humans but more so all of the hog and turkey confinements. They now have standby generators running on propane and plenty of propane to run them but if we had a widespread power outage and the confinements had no electricity from generators 100's of thousands of hogs and millions of turkeys in my area would perish from a lack of food and water or would die from the cold when the sidewall curtains drop. This would only occur if we had a widespread extended loss of power and is very highly unlikely to happen. In my neighborhood we need to be more worried about a major blizzard. If we had a blizzard like the one we had on Jan 10th of 1975 many of those confinements would go without feed deliveries for a week or more. If the feed in the bins is low right before the storm they would run out of feed real quick.

We are very fortunate our local REC has updated our power lines with new close spanned poles and heavier conductors during the past few years to help increase the reliability of our power lines mainly because of the high reliance of power for out livestock industry. Out here on the barren plains of northwest Iowa tree limbs are not a problem. Because of this we are a little more immune from losing power though nobody is completely out of the woods.
 
after a month or so it probably won't be how much you have so much as your ability to hang onto it.
 
I think we could survive a month ok. I try to keep 15 gal of gas and 10 gal. of diesel on hand for tractors chainsaws and generator. We have 2 yrs. of firewood put up and a freezer full of veggies and some meat not much though. we have an old ice chest full of canned goods and a small pantry that is well stocked. We would have to do without meat, milk, bread and eggs. Things like lamp oil and wicks, candles and flashlights with batteries are another thing to have on hand oh and books. I suppose I could do some poaching for meat if I really had to Turkey, Dear and Squirrels are abundant around here and I can always fish. It is good to think about these things though.
 
SweetFeet, you know yall would be very welcome here.
Don't forget to bring your pillow though.
Richard and Miss V in NW SC
 
The rest of my life. Don't know how long that might be but I think the greatest threat for most people would be a medical emergency. Doctors can work young miracles in a modern hospital but you need to be able to get there. They can't do much for you out in the field or woods. I lived through a plane crash over thirty years ago so nothing else worries me much. A good case of sea sickness or a kidney stone and you don't worry about dying you just wish you could.
 
It is ok JF. She died in 2004 from cancer. We were always taking jabs at each other. It helped us get over some rough spots.
 
I have plenty of venison on the hoof right here in the yard most nights. Plenty of natural growing firewood too so I'd be able to cook
venison and melt snow for drinking if worst comes to worst. Picture from last night.
cvphoto11684.jpg
 
Coincidentally I'm re-reading a great book titled "Lucifer's Hammer." It realistically addresses a situation similar to the one posted. gm
 
I don?t know about food but the two things that send my wife in the panic mode is when the electricity or water go
off!!! If she hears the electricity could go off first thing she grabs for is the hair dryer, if the water quits first thing she
needs to do is take a shower, if there?s were 2 gallon of water left, she?d probably run for the shower!!!!!!
 
Remember that well, we had just started construction on Upstate C.F. in Malone, awful situation. I recall the C.F.'s power houses, their big back up diesel alternators were supplying power, forget the details. The scale of this was hard to imagine, high voltage transmission lines, the steel towers collapsing trees broke off everywhere and all the rest.
 
Interesting subject , it all comes down to your location ,say you live in the city,
there is a lot more competition and madness , so the farther you are from a
metropolitan area the better your chances , and the old saying goes a country boy will
survive because he already has things in order for whatever life throws at him
 
There's that, I cannot imagine dealing with a long term scenario and being a target. At that point, being a well stocked loner makes you an easy target. I can just see the masses migrating out of the nearby city headed this way. Silenced weapons would be desirable.
 
I think there would be a lot of variables, like how prepared physically, mentally (big factor!), where you live, the nature of your neighbors, the nature of the disaster.

People tend to pull together in the face of an enemy attack or natural disaster.

But what if the attack was highly successful, or the disaster was worse than expected and resulted in long term, wide spread disruption of food and services?

Once panic and desperation sets in, afraid it would be open season on common sense or humanity.

Compare 911 to Katrina...

Anyone old enough to remember the gas shortages in the 70's got a sample of human panic. A small portion of people went into full blown panic, shooting at each other for a place in line!

Imagine what they would have done had that been a food shortage! That mentality tends to spread quickly, propagating hatrid toward each other, anything goes mentality. None of us can say with absolute certainty that we could be immune to such behavior.

Satan's perfect storm!
 
20kw generator kicks on when power goes out and most time I have close to 1000 gal propane so freezers should be good for some time. I think without power I could make it because 4400 acres can raise something to eat and have water. Most likely in worst case would be killed by someone trying to take what I have. Don,t think we will see it but some day the welfare cuts out and all these city folks may come to the country looking for food.
 
How long can we last? Not nearly long enough. And I'll never know if we could survive until we're put in the situation. We have 2
young kids. Propane heat, no generator, low ammo supply, and I don't know how to pressure-can. Dreadfully unprepared.
 
(quoted from post at 14:31:45 02/02/19) I think there would be a lot of variables, like how prepared physically, mentally (big factor!), where you live, the nature of your neighbors, the nature of the disaster.

People tend to pull together in the face of an enemy attack or natural disaster.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I laugh at these prepper wannabe types that have this fantasy they are going to head for the woods and go it alone. They will fail and be starving, exhausted, and wet or freezing within days.

How did humans as a species survive and thrive for thousands of years? Go back 5000 years and look at the past, our ancient ancestors have already solved this problem, we just need to look at how they did it.

1. Social and tribal networks = survival. Going it alone = certain death. No single person or small famiy group can survive alone for long. Our ancient ancesters knew this and they survived by forming tribes or small social groups. Division of labor, sharing of multiple resources, more person-power, and greater collective intelligence and problems solving will win every time.

The ability to gather a tribe and use the power of multiple people has always been the most important "tool" for success.

2. Knowledge trumps technology. Having a tool is only good until that tool breaks or you need a different tool.

For example, a freezer and generator is great at preserving food until they break or run out of fuel. Then what? You're hosed. But if you have the knowledge, you can preserve all that food so it doesn't need to be frozen.

3. Food, shelter, water. The more methods you have to provide the 3 essentials, the more successful you will be.

If your only way to stay warm is relying on a generator powering a fossil fuel powered heat source, you're going to fail. If you have multiple sources of heat and heavy clothing / insluated sleeping arrangements, etc, you will have a much bettter chance.

Keep in mind, the Eskimo used to live above the arctic circle where there is almost no wood and they did so all winter and they used almost NO fuel to provide heat. How did they do it? Superior knowledge and the ability to use multiple other methods to stay warm. Better shelters, better clothing, better foods that fight cold, and the knowledge to use all of the above in combination.

Grouse
 
(quoted from post at 12:31:45 02/02/19) I think there would be a lot of variables, like how prepared physically, mentally (big factor!), where you live, the nature of your neighbors, the nature of the disaster.

People tend to pull together in the face of an enemy attack or natural disaster.

But what if the attack was highly successful, or the disaster was worse than expected and resulted in long term, wide spread disruption of food and services?

Once panic and desperation sets in, afraid it would be open season on common sense or humanity.

Compare 911 to Katrina...

Anyone old enough to remember the gas shortages in the 70's got a sample of human panic. A small portion of people went into full blown panic, shooting at each other for a place in line!

Imagine what they would have done had that been a food shortage! That mentality tends to spread quickly, propagating hatrid toward each other, anything goes mentality. None of us can say with absolute certainty that we could be immune to such behavior.

Satan's perfect storm!
Click to expand...

This is my point. When Katrina hits or the ice storm hits, it's no big deal. Planned for and the plan kicks in. In most cases, it will get resolved in and some resemblance to normal resumes within a week. Why suffer and make it dicey when it can be easy enough to ride out with a little planning.

A kerosene lantern or two......a Coleman 2 burner gas campstove if you have an electric range or cooktop. You do gotta have a propane tank to run it, however. Or just cook one a gas or charcoal grill.

Milk? It only takes a box of the powdered stuff from the store. They even sell it it quart sized pouches. When mixed fresh, it smells and tastes like milk replacement for a calf. Give it a day and it tastes like normal milk. So idiotic to run out and buy milk at the last second. And on and on and on on the food, etc. Most of us don't realize it but we have 50 gallons of potable water in our hot water tanks. Nurse that along and you can get by for a while.....and with enough advance warning, fill the bathtub with water. If it was that or nothing, I'd drink it.

BTW, I'm not talking about any doomsday scenarios. Just the ability to ride out normal stuff that can and has happened and do so in comfort. And that now has to include short term man made disasters like a terrorist blowing something up to put the hurt on a whole bunch of us.

On the doomsday stuff, I had a client once who told me he had just bought another case of .223 ammo. Another case? How many cases do you already have.....he had 10. For what? To fend off the hordes.

I got to thinking about that one and considering my age, decided if it came down to that, I'd only need one bullet and I'd use it on myself. If I've got to shoot all my friends and neighbors coming after my little stash, that isn't a world I want to live in anyway.

8)
 
Back in the 90s there was a prediction of a major earthquake in southern Illinois. Being an
EMS volunteer I read up on what might happen in my area (about 150 miles north of St Louis).

If the quake was centered near St Louis (the center of the fault line) and it was 7 or greater.
All bridges on Mississippi will be down, Liquidfaction will occur 200 miles out from center of
quake (ground soil turns to liquid, all buildings and bridges collapse). The 5 major north
bound natural gas lines pass through St Louis area will be broken, stopping gas flow to all
north central United States. Underground structure of earth will carry damage to Chicago and as
far west as Nebraska. Our population is and never will be prepared to survive minimum of 6
months we told to attempt preparation for, without aid.
 
(quoted from post at 14:27:07 02/02/19) I love Heinz ketchup.

Should I try Frenches?

Dean
Click to expand...

Made in Canada with Canadian Tomatoes. They also manufacture an entirely respectable Caesar mix. Various mustard products and other topppings .
French’s is a subsidiary of McCormics USA .
After Heinz parked up and left Leamington Ontario high and dry . Unless the most dire of emergencies Heinz’s is avoided and French’s or Allen’s is chosen instead .
 
Great book. just finished the Rift by Walter J Williams about the fault by St Louis. Well written and scary. Surviving might not be worth it if it is wide spread around the world. Earl
 

One simple EMP bomb would return half of the USA to somewhere between 1890 and 1930.
Then there are Solar Flares to worry about . Apparently a Carrington Level event occurred again in 2014 . Fortunately the flare was directed away from earth.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science
 

One simple EMP bomb would return half of the USA to somewhere between 1890 and 1930.
Then there are Solar Flares to worry about . Apparently a Carrington Level event occurred again in 2014 . Fortunately the flare was directed away from earth.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science
 
(quoted from post at 14:46:15 02/02/19) Coincidentally I'm re-reading a great book titled "Lucifer's Hammer." It realistically addresses a situation similar to the one posted. gm
Click to expand...

Good read. Another good one is "Alas Babylon". Not sure how "realistic" either is in reality. Lots of good doomer fiction out there if you look for it.
 
(quoted from post at 19:44:14 02/02/19)
One simple EMP bomb would return half of the USA to somewhere between 1890 and 1930.
Then there are Solar Flares to worry about . Apparently a Carrington Level event occurred again in 2014 . Fortunately the flare was directed away from earth.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/news/2011/03/110302-solar-flares-sun-storms-earth-danger-carrington-event-science
Click to expand...


EMP is one of my more major concerns, at least compared to living through an actual nuclear war. it would only take one to knock out half the US. 3 would knock it all out and much of Canada too. A major solar flare can do the same thing, but at least it's not man made.

I don't think a lot of the folks responding here are thinking of long term issues. They're thinking in realistic terms, major storms/earthquakes, that type of thing, 2-3 weeks. Long term things like EMPs or pandemics, that's a whole 'nuther ball of wax. In those cases having things like a few hundred pounds of salt, 10 lbs of black pepper corns, a couple hundred lbs of sugar, stuff like that is going to be worth a lot more than a new Honda generator or a solar power set up. Black pepper was worth it;s weight in gold for millennia....
 
Good points in the colder areas of the country especially if Tornados happen I'm surprised there are not more underground type houses,constant temperature in the 50's.
 
If the world went to crap and you have
enough to survive forever. You better be
ready to kill those who don't have
anything. They will be willing to what it
takes to feed their family.

I've survived for 70 years without
worrying about worse case what if. Have
generator for short term power outages.
 
(quoted from post at 04:17:13 02/03/19) If the world went to crap and you have
enough to survive forever. You better be
ready to kill those who don't have
anything. They will be willing to what it
takes to feed their family.

I've survived for 70 years without
worrying about worse case what if. [b:ee331c9b62]Have
generator for short term power outages.[/b:ee331c9b62]
Click to expand...

That is what I'm suggesting.....have a plan to survive short term outages....basically treat them as a nuisance vs. a major trauma event. For a lot of folks.....if 6 hours is a major trauma event, imagine where they will be in 6 days?

The BIG one most don't have is a secondary source of heat....one that will at least keep the house warm enough the pipes won't freeze....and the ability to do so without the need for power. Unless a person has a backup generator......and enough fuel to run it for the duration, they won't last.

In our first house, backup was a wood burning fireplace insert...it was located in the lower level of a split foyer house. It would heat the entire house. Not evenly, but enough to keep it from freezing. I always had enough wood to run it a month.

Second house was two story, with basement. Had a natural gas fireplace in the basement......required no juice to run it. Cranked up on high, it would keep the basement unbearably hot, and the heat would then filter upstairs to keep that going.

Current house has a fireplace that has not yet been tested, but I doubt it is my final backup solution, as it is more or less a "vanity" unit and any wood burned will send 90% of the heat up the chimney. Pretty, but pretty much worthless as a heat source.
Better option for me will be a backup generator running off the 500 gallon propane tank. Enough juice to spin the furnace and keep the refer and freezer going.

A simple backup heat option that might work (but one that won't pass the decor friendly test) is a propane powered, exterior vented, wall furnace.

Doomsday around here would be lack of ability to charge grandma's cell phone, although she would probably do that by hooking it to the car charger and letting it run for an hour each day. :roll:
 

I don't think most people realize just how fast you go through diesel or propane in a power outage. It goes a lot faster than you think unless you are the ruthless type that can keep honey and the kids from trying to live the life they're used to. 3-4 hours is one thing. You start talking days or weeks without power and I don't think most people have anywhere near the quantity of fuel on hand that would be needed.

I know more than one person whose back up heat was a "Mr Heater" on top of a bbq tank, the one they normally use in the ice fishing shanty. You will go through a tank a day. I didn't believe it until I tried it myself with my single burner unit. During a cold snap (that's -20 or below up here) I tried mine in our mud room. A tank a day, less than a day (24 hrs) actually. Just something to keep in mind.

I have 3 or 4 Coleman camp stove, 3 gas and one propane, plus the Coleman oven for the stove. Given the choice between trying to run a small generator to power and electric range or oven as I've seen people do, I'd take the Coleman option. A good Coleman stove, especially the big 3 burner jobs, is a darn fine tool as long as you have fuel, be it stove fuel or unleaded gas. I know Coleman wants you to use their fuel, but I've run mine on pump gas, E10 too, for years and I used to use those stoves twice a day, every cold winter day to heat water for the barn.

We still come back to water. And sewage too. Once the towns water tower is emptied and there's no power to pump water and once the sewage pumps stop, town folks are going to be in a pickle. If you have a well, you can get water with the genny. Sewage is another animal. I don't know how long it would take for a municipal sewage system to go belly up, but I bet it's not long once the pumps stop. It's one thing in 10 hours. It's a whole different ball game over a week.
 
(quoted from post at 11:01:54 02/03/19)
I don't think most people realize just how fast you go through diesel or propane in a power outage. It goes a lot faster than you think unless you are the ruthless type that can keep honey and the kids from trying to live the life they're used to. 3-4 hours is one thing. You start talking days or weeks without power and I don't think most people have anywhere near the quantity of fuel on hand that would be needed.

I know more than one person whose back up heat was a "Mr Heater" on top of a bbq tank, the one they normally use in the ice fishing shanty. You will go through a tank a day. I didn't believe it until I tried it myself with my single burner unit. During a cold snap (that's -20 or below up here) I tried mine in our mud room. A tank a day, less than a day (24 hrs) actually. Just something to keep in mind.

I have 3 or 4 Coleman camp stove, 3 gas and one propane, plus the Coleman oven for the stove. Given the choice between trying to run a small generator to power and electric range or oven as I've seen people do, I'd take the Coleman option. A good Coleman stove, especially the big 3 burner jobs, is a darn fine tool as long as you have fuel, be it stove fuel or unleaded gas. I know Coleman wants you to use their fuel, but I've run mine on pump gas, E10 too, for years and I used to use those stoves twice a day, every cold winter day to heat water for the barn.

We still come back to water. And sewage too. Once the towns water tower is emptied and there's no power to pump water and once the sewage pumps stop, town folks are going to be in a pickle. If you have a well, you can get water with the genny. Sewage is another animal. I don't know how long it would take for a municipal sewage system to go belly up, but I bet it's not long once the pumps stop. It's one thing in 10 hours. It's a whole different ball game over a week.
Click to expand...
Bret couldn't agree more. Fortunately for us we live out of town and have some descent resources. We did survive 9 days without power after the blizzard of 93, trees down, poles, wires, roads blocked. I don't know that it would be as easy as it was then. Many folks were old neighbors and family friends that all sort of pitched in. Many of these folks are gone and don't know many of the younger crowd any more. Most of the newer inhabitants haven't had to endure this or have even tried to get to know their neighbors. My family was somewhat prepared and had enough fuel, food and generators for the basic needs as long as we were conservative. I'm honestly not sure what the next steps would have been if it lasted much longer.
Someone mentioned that it would difficult to survive without help and community. We did enjoy the company of the closer neighbors as we prepared a few group meals and pooled our resources. I had a pickup with a plow and small front end loader on the tractor. We were able to poke a few holes in the snow drifts for some short distance travel between a few neighbors didn't want to burn all the fuel at once. Some of the further neighbors were doing the same eventually we got a path to the main roads. Didn't help until about the 6th or 7th day as there was no power in town to get fuel or supplies. Had a radio and was able get some news on the TV when we ran the generator. Daisy chained information from town from other groups closer.
Generator would run the oil burner and well pump. Very low on generator fuel by the 7th day until I could get to an open gas station. The closest farmer to us was helping others with food and fuel from his bulk tank. Given the circumstance it was actually a very good experience and an eye opener for many.
I have become a fan of a couple TV shows about the off grid folks. There are some really great methods for water and heat. I am working on a spring fed cistern that could supply enough water for a couple homes. Water has been tested and is good. Learned about the hammer pumps and am going to ty to build one this spring. Going to build a coil for an old wood burner so we have some supplement in the event of problems. Have 3 types of heat oil boiler, propane wall heaters only used when we have to, and a wood burner in the basement that will heat most of the house easily. Have 120 acres of the old family farm to get wood from and we try keep a few cord cut stacked and handy. We enjoy game animals as food.
We have 5 families on our private road and have already proved for the most part can work together. We lost our road last August to flooding and everyone pulled together nicely. Road was out for 4 days but we still had power.
We count ourselves as very fortunite.
I haven't made it my mission to prepare for the worst but have enjoyed dreaming and scheming to use our resources more eficiently. Most of the things I have done have used what's laying around in the barn, fence row and junk I've accumulated over the years.
I don't know how yet but I know we have to survive so we'll do what we must.
Our old tractors may not help during a crisis much but sure help preparing for it.
 
we could last a week or so with minor problems--lasted 11 days without power in super storm sandy but that was in warm weather--however do have wood stoves for heat
 
We recently had 2 soild days of below
0 to -23 below , I have always admired the
the old technology, My furnace was on and
off , so I used 3 old time kerosene lamps ,
that give off considerable heat and light ,
It helped a lot , never had problem with power
outage , but I also have 3 perfection kerosene
heaters , just in case . I need to cook and heat ,
I like kerosene , no parts to break down ,
And no pets or children to worry about
 
due to an accident, I have to use a catheter to empty my bladder. my biggest fear is not heat, food, or ammo. it's running out of catheters that scares me the most. those of you with medical issues need to think about them as well.
 

We had the experience of the gas stations not having power or refills too. Things got dicey there for a few days.
 
(quoted from post at 14:50:54 02/02/19) Hi, Mrs Jegs here....
We could potentially survive without leaving our property for 6-9 months! We have a 6 month supply of freeze dried foods, as well as a large supply of
home canned foods. Our chickens will provide us with eggs, and meat if needed. I also have a very large supply of heritage seeds ( it was sold as the
"Arma-garden" seed collection), and a large garden bed. If we needed to remain home bound through the summer months, our food sources would
increase even more. Obviously, the use of the word "survive" indicates that's all we would be doing, comfort and all the little extras would be long
gone. But it does feel good to know that we could lock our doors to the outside world and still be around come next fall if need be. Yeah, I'm a little bit
of a fanatic about things like this...
Click to expand...


Where did you say you lived? Lol
 
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