my old 1980 chevy k-30 blew a waterpump, its a big block of unknown source, and i knew that when i bought the truck, now its always pulled really good for a gas engine and got lousy gas mileage as id expect with 4;56 axle ratios, but to get the right water pump i took the numbers off the original pump from the patina, this pump is original to the engine, the number comes back as " special high performance, corvette, chevell SS and copo camaro" i know the cars, no wonder this truck pulls so hard, now the question, this water pump is expensive, it ranges from 174.00 to well over 200 bucks, now a regular chevy 454 water pump is 40 bucks, what is the difference in the two pumps, and do i have to stay with the hi po pump?
- Thread starter ericlb
- Start date
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Back when I had a Vega I had to replace the alternator one time. I knew the parts guy and he told me for a Vega it was $35 but if I had want one for a Corvette which was the exact same one it was $150. Same alternators but different number because of what they where one so good chance you can go with the cheaper one as long as it mounts the same way
Janicholson
Well-known Member
See if the local parts co. has a pump, and set them both on the counter. If the number of blades on the impeller is the same, and mounting matches, I would go with the cheap. But if there differences that indicate increased capacity, go with the "flow". You use it hard enough to stress a lesser cooling system. Jim
Dennis Minn
Member
ericlb,
Look into Summit Racing catalog, they have tonsof water pumps for chevy engines. Most choices are: is it a big block, and, is it a "short" or "long" pump. Not much mention of any other choices.
I lean toward the idea that there are no significant differences between the "high HP" and the run of the mill pump.
D.
Look into Summit Racing catalog, they have tonsof water pumps for chevy engines. Most choices are: is it a big block, and, is it a "short" or "long" pump. Not much mention of any other choices.
I lean toward the idea that there are no significant differences between the "high HP" and the run of the mill pump.
D.
You may have a very valuable engine on your hands- it may be "numbers matching" for someone's high budget project, for which money is no object- at least it would be worth checking out. Get the numbers off the engine, and go on some high performance Chev and Corvette sites to see what it is. It may be "numbers matching" for somebody's high end project, and money is no object. You may very well get enough to replace the old K30 with something better.
danofarming
Member
Go with the low cost pump. you are not going to be demanding high performance from your engine. Your definition of "High Performance" id not the same as the Corvette guys. IIRC the water pump for Big Block and Small block will interchange. It is a matter of the size of the lower intake size to match your radiator.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
I doubt the pump you need is specific to the high performance engines.
Most likely the engine is a typical Mark IV 454 passenger car series engine.
There was also a heavy truck version of big blocks, but not likely what you have.
I would just take the pump to the auto supply, do a visual comparison. Pay close attention to the length of the shaft and the distance from the pulley flange to the mount surface.
Most likely the engine is a typical Mark IV 454 passenger car series engine.
There was also a heavy truck version of big blocks, but not likely what you have.
I would just take the pump to the auto supply, do a visual comparison. Pay close attention to the length of the shaft and the distance from the pulley flange to the mount surface.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I wouldn't admit owning a VEGA.
thanks guys ill take it in and match it with a regular pump and look at them very carefully maybe i can just use that, the truck is asked a lot of, i haul my tractors in the mountains from 6500 to 7500 ft elevation , but i dont crowd it id rather do 2800 rpm in 3rd gear as 1500 lugging it in 4th, average weight of tractor and trailer is 6000 give or take a grand
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Back in 1971 when the Vega came out consumers report had them as one of the best buys for the year and my dad being who he was fell pry to them and got the first Vega sold in town. In many ways not bad car till it had around 50,000 on it. They did handle pretty good and far better then the Pinto did. Good gas mileage for the time etc. My dad paid $2195 for it in 1971
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I was going down this 2 lane highway. Got in behind this Vega. I was getting ready to pass it. When this big rig passed the Vega. Next thing I saw was this cloud of dust. Heard something hit the top of my cab saw my my antennas go flying off. Something landed in the bed. Got stopped found the back window of the Vega in among my oil cans. DPS officer told me it wasn't the first problem he had seen with that car.
When I worked for Darr Equipment. We had a guy buy a Cosworth Vega. He was a die hard Chevy fan. One of the guys told him it was a Ford engine. He asked me and I told him. Yes Cosworth is owned by Ford. He was not very happy.
Like most cars they had their problems.
When I worked for Darr Equipment. We had a guy buy a Cosworth Vega. He was a die hard Chevy fan. One of the guys told him it was a Ford engine. He asked me and I told him. Yes Cosworth is owned by Ford. He was not very happy.
Like most cars they had their problems.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I still have a Pontiac version or the Vega out back in the junk yard area. No engine in it but the body is still good. The Vega I had was the hatch back wit ha 3 speed on the floor. One night while driving it doing my paper route it jumped out of reverse. My dad took it to his auto shop and the guy went to pull the transmission out and when he got the first bolt out part of the transmission case hit him in the face. Transmission case had broken and got lucky it ever drove home. They put a 4 speed in it but left the 3 speed shiftier so shift it became a bit odd
As I recall,t here are two different casting blocks with different WP impeller depth. You have a very expensive block. Take a look t the intakes where they mate to the head. Does the intake plenum look like a "D" shape and is taller than wide? Or does the intake plenum look more like an oval, which is wider than taller? If you have the tall intake plenum, you have a very a very high perf motor there, and I'm pretty sure you will need the high volume pump. If the intakes are more oval, then it is the lower performance model, and may be able to use the lo-buck pump.
If you try the tall impeller pump in the wrong block, it will break the water pump. If you try the cheap low perf water pump in the hi perf block, you will have a huge gap at the back of the impeller, and it will not flow water worth a darn, and will overheat.
Measure the distance from the sealing flange to the end of the inner shaft where the impeller is pinned carefully.
If you try the tall impeller pump in the wrong block, it will break the water pump. If you try the cheap low perf water pump in the hi perf block, you will have a huge gap at the back of the impeller, and it will not flow water worth a darn, and will overheat.
Measure the distance from the sealing flange to the end of the inner shaft where the impeller is pinned carefully.
Goose
Well-known Member
I once had a '75 GMC crew cab pickup with a 454 engine in it. I needed some parts for the automatic choke, and nothing for that year pickup with a 454 matched. What finally matched were parts for the choke on a '69 Chevelle high performance 396 engine with a factory cast iron high rise intake.
Doug - Iowa
Member
That would be a Pontiac Aspire I believe, not many made. If it was red hatchback I would be interested in it.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
It is a sort of blue green and I think a 4 door with trunk
Vega's were a cool looking little car. I never had one put a bunch of short blocks in them. In 1976 I ordered a new Monza with that 4 cyl. overhead cam engine/ 4 speed, no power steering or A/C but ordered the best tires and wheels and interior. Those cars were shipped standing on there nose on trains, mine came loose and ground the front bumper flat and had a hole poked in a quarter panel, and had the plain jane wheels and tires so I told them to keep it and ordered another one. Second one was perfect and drove it to Florida within a couple of weeks. Put about 75000 miles' on it and really never had a problem with it, fun to drive, 34 miles to the gallon. Bought another one new in 1980. Gave $5000. for the red one.
timcasbolt
Well-known Member
Just got back from spending a few minutes on Summit's website. There are short and long, standard volume and high volume, and clockwise, counter-clockwise rotation.
My best guess is that you need the long, high volume, clockwise. But you could probably use the standard volume. They will all bolt up, but if you need a long and get a short the belts won't line up. Counter-clockwise was used on serpentine setups.
My best guess is that you need the long, high volume, clockwise. But you could probably use the standard volume. They will all bolt up, but if you need a long and get a short the belts won't line up. Counter-clockwise was used on serpentine setups.
My sister bought a brand new '71 Vega GT, bright yellow 4 speed with a black interior. It was a sharp looking little car when it was new. I did her first oil change and the oil filter came off in pieces. Someone at the factory had put about 200 lbs of torque on it! After 18 months, rust marched right down the middle of both front fenders, right through! What a piece of junk!
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
Any more the auto parts stores have all kinds of screwy things in their books and computers.
There's a short pump and a long pump for Big Block. There's also a pump that has an extra water outlet on it for some special applications. That may be what they have tagged as "High Performance". There's higher flowing designs where they basically added what looks like a large washer over the end of the impeller vanes to make the pump more efficient. This is what you want for low speed towing and such. The counter people most likely don't know the difference and you have to take the back cover off to see if that's what it is.
A tall intake is no guarantee that it has rectangular port heads or is special anything. All the earlier manifolds were taller, both rectangle and oval port. I have a couple of the tall oval port cast iron intakes. One of them is on my '81 one ton. The shorter manifolds came out for lower hood lines and then they just made those from about 70 onward and put them in cars and pickups.
Is there any chance that someone stuck a tall deck truck motor in there? By "Truck" I mean the 366 and 427 that came in medium duty trucks (C60, C70 etc.). On standard height blocks the top of the upper water pump mounting hole is almost flush with the top of the deck. The truck version has .400 taller decks and you can see this much space above the upper water pump mounting bolts. The truck motor has taller pistons with 4 rings.
There's a short pump and a long pump for Big Block. There's also a pump that has an extra water outlet on it for some special applications. That may be what they have tagged as "High Performance". There's higher flowing designs where they basically added what looks like a large washer over the end of the impeller vanes to make the pump more efficient. This is what you want for low speed towing and such. The counter people most likely don't know the difference and you have to take the back cover off to see if that's what it is.
A tall intake is no guarantee that it has rectangular port heads or is special anything. All the earlier manifolds were taller, both rectangle and oval port. I have a couple of the tall oval port cast iron intakes. One of them is on my '81 one ton. The shorter manifolds came out for lower hood lines and then they just made those from about 70 onward and put them in cars and pickups.
Is there any chance that someone stuck a tall deck truck motor in there? By "Truck" I mean the 366 and 427 that came in medium duty trucks (C60, C70 etc.). On standard height blocks the top of the upper water pump mounting hole is almost flush with the top of the deck. The truck version has .400 taller decks and you can see this much space above the upper water pump mounting bolts. The truck motor has taller pistons with 4 rings.
They did not have any castings for "special hi performance" or anything else. You simply can not identify specific details of an engine by the water pump casting either. There is a short or long pump. If the back of the pump is very close or almost touching the timing cover then its the short pump. If you can at least stick your finger tips between the back of the pump and timing cover then its the long pump.
Clarence Slydell
Member
That would be a Pontiac Astre.
Clarence Slydell
Member
If it has 4 doors it is not a Pontiac Astre.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Yep the engine in the Vega was the problem but the body and the way they handled where nice. I say what happened in my Vega but it would get poofed but I'll say this it was me and a college gal who was a year older then me. Looking back she could maybe have gotten in trouble since I was 16 or 17 and she was 18 or 19
Sounds like you have a slew of good info here and a few things thrown in for good measure also.
I will do you one better and that is to also replace the thermostat and make sure the new one has a "Piddle valve" in the mounting flange or to at least drill a 1/16" hole in it. That valve, or hole, will allow any trapped air under the stat to escape and also will promote better engine thermodynamics. Your engine will not have to build an excessive amount of heat trying to open a thermostat.
That small hole lets in enough heat to gradually open the stat instead of slamming open and the sudden rush of cold water into a near overheated engine. That reduction of temp spikes can also keep head gaskets alive longer.
Good Luck!
I will do you one better and that is to also replace the thermostat and make sure the new one has a "Piddle valve" in the mounting flange or to at least drill a 1/16" hole in it. That valve, or hole, will allow any trapped air under the stat to escape and also will promote better engine thermodynamics. Your engine will not have to build an excessive amount of heat trying to open a thermostat.
That small hole lets in enough heat to gradually open the stat instead of slamming open and the sudden rush of cold water into a near overheated engine. That reduction of temp spikes can also keep head gaskets alive longer.
Good Luck!
dr sportster
Well-known Member
You can get an all aluminum pump off ebay for under 100 dollars . There are small block long and short and big block long and short pumps. The long may not fit every application.
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy