55 years of

Sludge in a valve cover on a 3020

How about... YUK!

Is that metal fakes on that rag?

My first pickup was a 71 GMC 3/4 ton 4x4 with a 307 V8. The engine was full of sludge. I was a student in an automotive repair program and the instructors said that was from a certain brand of oil(will not mention). I don't know if that was true but the truck acted tired and I thought I might have to rebuilt it. I kept tuning it up, running good oil and it kept getting better and better and ran like a ........Ape. I sold it years later with 156000 miles and it still ran great. Wish I had kept it and put it in the barn.

Why not mention the Brand? At the salvage yard I use to work at some in high school we could always tell what cars had had Gulf oil and Quaker State run in them the rocker area
would be packed with crude.I've run Kendall 15W-40 in the wife's Toyota Corolla since about 30,000 miles at a little over 200,000 we had a timing belt installed as preventive maint. mechanic said it was the cleanest motor he'd ever worked on.

You did, they said Quaker State. Rocker covers were so full you couldn't see the rockers.

bet Pennzoil !!!!!!!seen many like that to this day i will not use it

I worked at a Deere dealership in the 50's to early 60's and we could open a crankcase and tell which farmers ran Gulf oil. There would always be more sludge from that oil than the other brands.

Around here it was a joke among the wrenchers that you could tell they used Archer oil by all the sludge under the valve cover. Every local has a different whipping post--Oil is oil-it is the "secret additives" they put in that makes it different ---Tee

we had quaker state ruin an engine back in the 80's.

dad ran different brands in different vehicles. never figured out why our old 1974 Ford Galaxie 500 wagon (400 engine) only got BP super visco static it had 145000 on it when dad sold it and the people that bought it drove it for quite a while after. that was pretty good for that vintage car. the old 1970 plymouth got quaker state. not sure what the pinto got but it didn't stay long. after that pretty much everything got Texaco Havoline. when i left home it used texaco too but then started using Castrol GTX in my cars and always had good luck. switched everything to AMSOIL later on and have had very good luck with that as well especially cranking in this weather, the starter hardly acts like it cold out.

I had a distant reletave years ago that was a mechanic and had his own service garage and he would only use Quaker State as he said it was the ONLY one that would NOT sludge up an engine.

After reading through all the replies so far, I find it hard to believe that there are these significant kinds of differences in major oil brands let alone being able to ID which oil was used after looking at the engine. I think we all have our favorites and ones we don't like but this is stretching it a bit in my opinion. It all boils down to personal experience but you can't paint the whole brand as being bad because of some experience you had.

Pennzoil and Quaker State have always been noted for sludge if you do a lot of short runs and don't get engine hot. But if you put a lot of miles a day where engine runs hot for long periods of time a day you won't have that problem.

Big Tee ..... if that's the warranty claims manager on the front of that tin, I think I would keep my complaints to myself ..... ha!

Hey, this might be a good place to restart the Fram filter debate.

The two oils listed I believe are paraffin based and will cause sludge good oil is napthinic spelling may be wrong. Rene'

Proves one thing you don't know much about oils back in the 50's and 60's,go to salvage yards they can just about tell you what oil was run in a motor.Huge improvements have been made in
all lubricants over the years though.

Everyone has an opinion but I have pulled down several hundred engines at that salvage yard and I wouldn't use Gulf or Quaker State in any motor.

Frank of American Pickers might pay well for that can!! In years past my dad and another neighbor bought 730 diesels at about same time. Dealer had policy of pulling valve cover at no charge after first year, Mechanic stated those were cleanest engines he had checked on, asking about oil. Both had nothing but Farm Bureau series III straight 20 weight after first few hours of break in. I too have pulled valve covers on Chevrolet V8 where sludge was like dirty jello around rockers.

No I don't know a whole lot about oils ..... not sure if my reply proved that though did it? And sure TF, back in the 50's and 60's things were certainly different, and so were cars, trucks, engines, fast food, schools and everything else. I do wonder though, how would a salvage yard know what oil was run in an engine after it was towed in and dropped in a junk pile? I doubt that they asked the previous owner what kind of oil he used?

That aint even sludge
where did you grow up
that's clean

a little blowby and short trips
but not sludge

todays youtube doomsdayers and their attempt to wash the internals makes me laugh
modern oils modern cars and frequent oil changes

and then there is run hard crust
but calling it sludge is pushing it

to me sludge is bore like gooey asphalt
bi?tu?men
/bəˈto͞omən,bīˈto͞omən/Submit
noun
a black viscous mixture of hydrocarbons obtained naturally or as a residue from petroleum distillation. It is used for road surfacing and roofing.

I had a forklift to work on it smoked
old chrysler flathead 6
2 breathers
one by the fan pointing away from the air creating the draft necessary for the other to constantly vacuum the warehouse through the block
now it was just dusty
but not sludge

Different oils do different do different things and many have their own distinct smell,after you tear into a couple hundred engines you learn a few things.

I have two friends that have showed me this in their shops. One was a Ford dealer and the other owned his own automotive machine shop. The one that run his own shop worked on engines that used all brands of oil and these two had sludge problems.

I rebuilt a Gm 305 for a guy only had 89,000 miles. I took the intake off and the lifer valley was level with crud and wax. He swore that Quaker state made the engine quieter.

A whole lot of people need to look up the chemistry of engine oil. Almost all are made from parrifin base crude. Sludge is caused by operating conditions including maintenance, engine condition as well as how that engine operated or stored.....

Well, I certainly can't argue against the "smell test" for ID'ing engine oil. Sort of like the old Coke vs Pepsi taste tests at the local supermarket years ago. Meanwhile, unless there is a gigantic conspiracy going on in the industry, I'll do it the simple way .... just believe in the SAE rating on the side of the jug.

Never thought of this--Is this history, or is it a racist picture? Will I get kicked off of here?---Tee

"Any one" looking at old oil out of any engine and telling you what oil it is,,,is "Guessing"....let a little anti-freeze get in the mix and you will have sludge with any oil...

Years ago my son bought a '85 Buick Somerset Regal. It had a little V6 and was one of the first 6 months of production. Those engines had a phenolic button that controlled the thrust on the front of the camshaft, and they wore out prematurely. This motor needed to be rebuilt and I found a place on 14 mile in I think Madison Heights that had been doing that for years. I asked the man who owned the place if there was an oil brand that he saw more than others in engines that needed a rebuild and he said Valvoline, almost exclusively. This was in the middle '90's. As I remember, the oil I used when I ruined my Ford 427 in '65 was Valvoline.

I did a good bit of wrenching for a couple of dealers and a local independent in the mid 70's.
We found that local driven short distance engines had more sludge buildup than ones belonging to those that drove longer distances.
At that time engines with Valvoline would have a dry ashy sludge that at times would completely fill the valve cover and lifter valley areas.
Engines that ran Pennzoil had a gooey tar like sludge.
Engines that ran Gulf oil had a shiny waxy sludge that was hard to clean off of the valve covers.
Quaker State wasn't a popular brand in our area at that time so I can't comment on it.
Personally I used Chevron oil in my engines back then, it would leave a black oily sludge but didn't seem to build up as much as some of the other brands. but then it may have been the way I drove.

Todays engines run much hotter and are driven longer distances, one doesn't see sludge buildup like we saw back then, I'm sure improvements in oil has also helped reduce sludge.

Got a 69 Chevy from neighbor who bought it new.he said it only had Quaker state 30 hd since new.didnt smoke or use any oil during the first few months we had it.i changed the oil and put havoline 10w40 in it. This was in the 80's.we drove it to Memphis and back the next day about 200 miles before we got home I noticed blue smoke and it fouled a plug running on 7. Pulled valve cover it looked like clean jello .rear drain holes were clogged . I thought the two oils didn't mix or get along together somehow.

Mike .... now that would be punishment, surely you wouldn't consider doing that, especially if we got into Bob the Oil Guy (who has actually been retired and living in Florida for some time now I believe). Superstition still abounds these days despite so much knowledge which is backed up by scientific proof. It's like voting in a federal election, your vote is likely confirmed before you see the light of day. Same thing for preferred oil brands and other such things.

It makes more difference if you change oil regularly. Like Tee said the big difference is the additive package put in the oil. I will say that synthetic rear end oil in the drive axles on the truck and in the transmission would work better in cold weather for shifting at the git go before it got time to warm up the gear boxes.

Is that oil or fire water?

I don't know what kind of oil my buddy runs in his 3020, but I pulled it down to rebuild it, even though it only had a leaking sleeve o-ring. He wanted it rebuilt either way. It was just spotless inside, aside from just being oily, there was no sludge or crud in it at all. I believe certain kinds of oils can cause sludge, but I think it also has a lot to do with how it's run. If I start a tractor up just to move it a few feet in winter time, I'll let it idle for 5 minutes or maybe just a little above to get things moving, then after 5 minutes I'll run it up half throttle for 15 or so minutes so it can fully warm up, then I'll cut it back to an idle for a minute or so before shutting it off. My Powerstroke has 302,000 miles on it and I've only ever had the valve covers off twice to replace the glow plugs and do injector o-rings. When I opened it up the last time, last summer at 297,000 miles, the valve covers were spotless. Oily, but no sludge at all. The last 100,000+ miles I've been changing the oil and filter every 10,000 miles, using conventional 15-40, either Wolf's Head, Kendall,Valvoline or Shell Rotella, but I prefer the Kendall or Wolf's Head the most. But, I run everything of mine quite hard, after a thorough warm up. I'm a big fan of using 15-40 in all of my tractor engines, really works well, gas or diesel. Any of mine I've torn down are always pretty clean inside, as compared to something that had been run with something else sludgy before I got it. Some of the stuff that comes in to me for a rebuild surprises me how sludgy some can be (no idea what kinds of oil). On the other hand, my grandpa had a Chevy pickup with a TBI 350 that blew a headgasket. It had around 180,000 miles. He would always just hop in it and go, unless it was really cold. He'd run it up to a blistering 35 mph or so and drive the back roads everywhere. Never went over that fast, or accelerated quickly or harshly. Drove it that way for as long as I could remember. When I tore it apart, it had balls and chunks of rock hard carbon type material in the valley and around the rocker/valve area. Some about as big as a tennis ball, most sized about like a golf ball. It had used oil since it had rolled past 150,000 miles. He always used Quaker State, but I feel it was the way it was run more so than the oil he used. I told him to run it harder and to get on it on take offs, so he bumped his speed up to 40, and would take off like a person would trying to take off on an icy hill without spinning their tires. I guess he felt like he was really getting after it though lol. I know a lot of people that will start their car and immediately hop in and drive to the gas station 4 blocks away to get a Pepsi, shut it off, then start it back up and head the 4 blocks home. And do that numerous times a day. Now I don't know for sure, but that seems like it'd be not all that great for your engine. Maybe that's why they are always having their car in the shop, I don't know.

I?ve been using valvoline Cummins oil In all the tractors there has been sludge in the valve cover each time I?ve had it off on my 3020 and I?ve cleaned it each time .I had been running plus 50 two in the 4020 this year I switched it to the Cummins valvoline oil the valve cover on it has always been clean as a whistle so it?ll be interesting to see what it looks like now . This 3020 valve cover in the picture runs Mobil delvac there was also sludge in the 5020 valve cover that also runs Mobil delvac

On the Gulf Oil comments, when I bought my first car, 1951 Olds V8, in 1959, good runner, lots of power, not an oil burner, for some reason Gulf Pride Select 30W Single G was my oil selection....maybe because there was a Gulf station near the house and we used to go there as a kid and drink RC sodas and eat Moon Pies or put a Tom's 5c bag of peanuts in the bottle and drink them together.

Moving on, one thing I noticed about it was that it was clear as water....I thought that was great. However, in retrospect, I don't recall additives being clear as water and maybe the comments contained herein were because Gulf was shy on the additives. Who knows, but I do know that driving habits have their place and urban vs rural operation has it's place too especially when 2 miles was a trip where I grew up.

Dispersants keep the particles suspended in the oil so they can be trapped in the filter. The old oil may have actually been cleaner since the sludge settled out.