Hay Barn Floor Question

I've read a variety of posts for hay barn floors - specifically gravel with some layer of plastic under, in the middle or on top used as a ground vapor barrier.

What I can't wrap my head around is - doesn't the gravel under the weight of the hay and/or tractor and equipment puncture the plastic as the gravel is mashed against it - and you're back to moisture and mold on the bottom stack bales?

Then - all that loose hay falling into the gravel. Does this create a potential moldy mess?

What am I missing?

Thanks!
Bill

Unless you have a metal aerated floor I?m doubtful there?s any way to completely eliminate spoilage on the bottom layer.

If it were me, I might try making a form of pallet specifically for stacking the hay on. That would allow air to circulate unter the hay and keep it out of any moisture. Yes it would be a hassle as you would have to keep moving the pallets around as you couldn't drive on them, but....just an idea.

I've never(!!) dealt with hay storage, so am just thinking out loud. However, our water table is so high that the ground almost always has excessive moisture at the surface. So, this is what came to mind.

Back when I used to deliver hay, I saw a lot of variations including just stacking it on the ground. Here in Michigan there is enough rising damp to mold the bottom bales in most of the various situations I have seen. In my experience any hay in contact with plastic or within a few inches of soil is going to go south come Spring.

A raised wooden floor will keep the bottom layer dryer than anything I have ever seen.The main thing with a dirt or gravel floor is have it up on a pad at least a foot higher than any surrounding area.

With overhead mow we did not have much problem with mold on the hay and it got cleaned out every year, The other part of the barn where the floor was at same height as the driveway about 2 feet up the bottom was always molded but the bottom layer was hardly ever taken out. This was loose boards layed any way they could. In other barn with tight floor on both overhead and same level as drive but floor a foot higher did not have mold problems and those mows were always completely emptied. Milked there fron 70 to 80, before that the barn where hay was molding.

A thick later of straw over gravel works well.

As was pointed out, having the barn's floor grade higher than its surrounding helps a lot. I store small square bales on pallets made from 2x4s. It lets air get under the stack and keeps the bottom bales off the ground (my barn has a gravel floor). A note, the first pallets I made using 1x6's across 2x4's. Using all 2x4's makes a better pallet.

Will try to add a picture.

I have a hay buyer that is very fussy about his hay and with the low volume I had of second and third I decided to put a row of straw bales down. So far so good. Before I just put a thin layer of hay straw chaff that was just so so good.

I would suggest that you roundup as many real pallets as you can and lay them down like a floor. Before you are ready to store bales lift all of the pallets and spray the ground with as much white Vinegar as you can get hold of. Not that expensive. Knocks the wack out of the Ph level. Kills most all molds. Put the pallets down and go for it. The pallets provide the air circulation you need and the vinegar knocks the rest.

wonder if a heavy application of salt would help keep down mold and mildew?

I used a layer of second-hand pallets with great success for many years, on top of a damp gravel floor. Cheap, simple to lay and lift as the shed is filled/emptied and zero spoilage.
Jim

Salt will attract moisture!

As I think back about 50 years ago, to a time before big rounds and all our hay was put up as small square bales. Stacked in all manner of sheds and barns......anything with a tight roof. A lot of that on old loose residual hay over dirt on the lower level. I don't remember mold being such a problem then, but we were feeding it to beef cows, so perhaps it was and we didn't care?

Fast forward to about 3 years ago when I moved to where I am now. Open ground is used for horse hay and small square bales are stacked in a barn with cement floor. Bottom layer, if stacked on cement, goes bad quick. So default solution is to stack on used pallets to isolate hay from the floor. It works, but creates problems of a different kind. That requires hand stacking, which means finding reliable labor. A mechanical hay gathering solution, like a New Holland Stackliner / bale wagon, will probably not work. Havn't tried it, so not sure. If it does, please tell me how. Grapples might, provided the shape of the cluster is the same as the pallet layout. Otherwise, you are back to stacking on pallets by hand.

Back to the cement floor. I was curious why the floor would stay so wet, when it dawned on me the folks who built it placed it straddle of the head of a farm terrace. Surface water flows to it and is trying to flow under it. They put a drain through the terrace to divert the water, but it's not enough. They could have moved it 30 feet back and all would have been OK, but didn't. Curious that the same folks also built the house, which is placed on an elevated slab, with water flowing away from the house in all directions, and this slab is dry. This slab, in addition to being elevated, also had a vapor barrier placed on the gravel base, before the cement was poured. Lady I'm married to wanted to replace some old worn carpet with hardwood and we were told to test the floor first for moisture. Did that by taping a square of plastic to the cement. Taped down all four edges. Left it for a month, through wet and dry cycles and it never did show condensation under the plastic.

So it may be possible to have a dry cement floor in a hay barn by doing the same thing. Placing barn on a high and dry location, elevate the floor on a gravel base, put down a vapor barrier, then pour the floor. Even then, you might want to use pallets the first few years until the cement cures and dries out.

Or an elevated base of coarse rock (like 2 inch) might do the same thing. Not just a couple inches though......maybe 4 to 6 inches minimum? And perhaps put a vapor barrier under that too? That might permit mechanical equipment to drive on it. Or that might puncture the plastic too?

Lastly, this is a recurring problem with our end users, which are horse people. Have spoken to two of them and I'm now wondering if the design of the barns is not a part of their problem. They are mostly using low eave pole barns, with stalls on one side and hay stacked on the other. They might do better by going back to the old loft style barns, with hay stored above the center alley or off to one side. That gets stored on wood plank floors. To feed it, you drop it through chutes into stall mangers below.

Yet another problem for the horse people / end users is if they leave the nags in the stalls inside the barn. Horses create a gob and a bunch of moisture themselves. I leased my barn for a year or so and if she left them in the stalls overnight, under the right conditions, it would rain inside from all the condensation and frost that accumulated on the uninsulated metal roof. To make that work, barn may have to be well ventilated along the lines of a tobacco barn to let the moisture out. And insulation under the metal roof and ventilate the crap out of the barn.

True but it is also deadly to things like mold and mildew and better for it to soak up moisture than the hay I would think.Thats why hams are put in salt to draw out the moisture into the salt.

Wonder how half way burying some 4" drain tiles and covering them with gravel would work? It'd created an air flow and a place to drain off any moisture.

Bill, I supplement my heat with bagged coal, which I purchase by the pallet/ ton. The coal is packed in 40lb. poly bags. It is stored out in the rain until I get it, and the coal in the bag is always wet. I just noticed this AM the hundreds of little pricked holes in the bags. I have been delivering hay for thirty years. Some customers put it on pallets, and sometimes when I have delivered they have just removed the last of the old hay and cleaned out under the pallets. I have noted that the old hay has appeared to have minimal mold. It is of course important to pull the pallets and remove the chaff prior to putting the new hay in. Walking on the pallets has never been a problem, partly because the area never requires many steps because it is not often a deep bay.

TF- That's an interesting thought. My view has always been that the moisture is condensation, caused by the difference between the beneath-the-surface temperature and the air temperature. If the floor is uncovered, the condensation evaporates as fast as it occurs, and the surface stays dry. Cover the floor with a layer of bales and the condensation can't evaporate, and is absorbed by the hay. Would 4" drain tiles allow enough air flow to raise the ground temperature enough to avoid condensation? Interesting idea.

I can't help but wonder if a garage or basement-type floor tile might work. They have all sorts of top coverings, and a rubber bottom that allows moisture to drain away. Only thing here is, you'd have to have a drain, the floor would need to slope that direction, and the moisture wouldn't "[i:dfb2f9d629]evaporate[/i:dfb2f9d629]". Yet, the floor could remain in place all the time and be driven and stacked on, right?

Three things about storing hay Ventilation Ventilation Ventilation. A closed off barn will condensate, The old barns had holes all over except the roof lol. When I was a kid we tore down a barn that was close to 200 years old. Wind would blow right through it but it was dry. Still had a ton of loose hay in the mow none moldy a little dusty but still good after who knows how long.

We used to lay sawmill slabs on ground about 2 feet apart in pole barn and edged the bottom run of bales.

Thanks for the replies - much appreciated.

We put pallets down on a clay floor with very little mold problem. Horse people will even buy the hay with no issues. Will only have a few bales that will have a dusting of molding. I give them a choice of if they want it or a different bale. Some want different and some don't care.