On Topic!

larry@stinescorner · Jan 1, 2019

I found this article to be interesting

I wanted to post it this morning

Maybe rr lund can tell us some history?

There arent many Cockshutt in our area ,just Oliver

Lets see what rrlund or other Oliver/Cockshutt guys say

Ande · Jan 1, 2019

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was, Cockshutt was a Canadian tractor that was a Oliver. I didn't think Cockshutt was sold in the USA new

rrlund · Jan 1, 2019

Mine came out of Canada originally. White made a deal to sell Fiat tractors after the deal with David Brown ended when they got their own dealer network set up. They were sold with Prairie Gold paint as Minneapolis Molines too. The tags and paint were the only differences between them. Those early 1250s and the 1450 weren't the best ever sold. As they evolved,they turned in to some darned nice little utility tractors.

There were a pretty fair number of new Cockshutts sold in this area of Michigan. Percy Knight in Stanton was a dealer for them. It ended when White bought them out though.

Bruce from Can. · Jan 1, 2019

Cockshutt tractors were built in Ontario, Canada.
The white company bought up Cockshutt as part of
a hostile take over, the last true Cockshutt tractors
were built in 1958. About this same time Oliver and
MM were also acquired by White. White continued
to build combines in Canada, but all of the tractors
were Oliver tractors, MM , DB or Fiat tractors
rebadged Cockshutt, and sold through the existing
Cockshutt dealer network in Canada, until 1974.
After 74 all of the tractors became White Farm
Equipment, and were sold in the silver/grey. And the
former Cockshutt,Oliver and MM dealers became
WFE dealers. At least this is my understanding.

Bob NY · Jan 1, 2019

Cockshutt sold Allis Chalmer and then Oliver tractors in Canada before WWII. They built their own tractors (20, 30, 40, 50, 35, Golden Eagle, 540, 550, 560 & 570) from 1946 until they were bought out by White in the early 1960s. Many of those were sold in New York State. Olivers were sold again as Cockshutts in Canada after the merger.

coshoo · Jan 1, 2019

Cockshutt built their own tractors until 1962 (Models 30, 35, 40 and 50 until 1957, then 550, 560, and 570 until the end)- most of the ones exported to the US were generally labeled Coop. After 1962, Olivers were re-branded Cockshutts. This created some confusion- because Oliver 550's were branded Cockshutt 550, but there were already 550's made by Cockhutt around. The Import Tractor guy, Danny Boles (sp.) produced a list of "what was what" in the intertwined Oliver, Cockshutt and Moline lines, and if I ever come across it, I'll probably forget to post it.

By the way, all of the above is absolutely true except maybe the parts I mis-remembered or screwed up on.

rrlund · Jan 1, 2019

I didn't know about the Allis tractors. I know Hart Parrs were sold as Cockshutts,then Olivers until Cockshutt built their own factory in Brandtford and started production in 1946. They sold those until the White buyout in 62. That was when the Olivers were sold as Cockshutts again until they became Whites.

Some tractors were sold as Whites instead of Cockshutts in Canada before the Olivers and MMs became Whites in the US.

rrlund · Jan 1, 2019

Yep,this was the Oliver built 550,then there was the Cockshutt built larger 550.

oldtanker · Jan 1, 2019

Interesting. Whats even more interesting is just the other day I watched something on Youtube that included something about the 1450. They claimed that the 1450 was a terrible tractor that was built from surplus parts left over from WWII. I was going to ask rrlund if it was true. That Oliver was dumb enough to warehouse WWII surplus parts for 17 years then to make em into a poor tractor? The video had a lot of other things in it that were questionable. I did even watch the whole thing. The 17 year old surplus thing was questionable enough.

Rick

rrlund · Jan 1, 2019

Not the 1450,the 1250 gas. They used an Italian military surplus engine. No parts available anywhere for those engines unless you can find "good enough" used ones somewhere.
The 1450 had a problem with head gaskets and too small head bolts,but otherwise wasn't a total disaster. They eventually morphed in to the 1465. Those were pretty decent,but not the bullet proof tractor that the 1355 and 1365 were. What was known as the B series 1250 as well as the 1265 were great little tractors too. They used a 3 cylinder Fiat diesel.

coshoo · Jan 1, 2019

And here's the Cockshutt 550.

oldtanker · Jan 1, 2019

(quoted from post at 08:58:02 01/01/19) Not the 1450,the 1250 gas. They used an Italian military surplus engine. No parts available anywhere for those engines unless you can find "good enough" used ones somewhere.
The 1450 had a problem with head gaskets and too small head bolts,but otherwise wasn't a total disaster. They eventually morphed in to the 1465. Those were pretty decent,but not the bullet proof tractor that the 1355 and 1365 were. What was known as the B series 1250 as well as the 1265 were great little tractors too. They used a 3 cylinder Fiat diesel.

I wonder why they did that??? If you get into WWII history most of the Italian military hardware was considered to be pretty poor and most far outdated when the war started. They didn't really have the ability to improve very much as the war progressed. So I'm guessing if they used surplus Italian military engines they were not surplus from WWII. After the war all military equipment/hardware became the property of the allies. So most of the captured equipment was sold for scrap to help pay for the cost of the war. So I'm betting those engines were from equipment designed and built after the war was over?

Our own military did that for years. Used purpose designed engines and when a piece of equipment was updated sold off those engines in the supply system. Consequently those engines were not used in civilian applications so there were no parts available one they did wind up in other hands.

Rick

rrlund · Jan 1, 2019

I don't know the history as far as what era of surplus they were. I don't know why Oliver took them either. There was a 4 cylinder diesel too,they weren't quite as bad I guess,but I don't know that they could hold a candle to the three cylinder either. I don't know if Fiat sold any of those gas powered tractors in Europe.

When the David Brown tractors came over here as Oliver 500s,those gas engines that were put in those were left overs from the 50s,but they were originally made for the David Brown Crop Master tractors. Those 500s were a DB 850 and those were sold in England in the diesel version,but no DB 850s were sold over there as an 850 gas with the Crop Master engine. Those all came to the US as Olivers. So I don't know if that same thing happened with the Fiat built gassers too or not.

centash · Jan 1, 2019

And to add to the confusion, that White is derived from the MM line....So, a White purchased in that era could have an Oliver or Cockshutt or MM heritage, let alone the Fiat and David Brown ancestry on some utility models. I wonder how big the parts number cross reference book is. Still, the Oliver based Cockshutts sold here in Canada were pretty popular and well liked tractors.
Ben

On Topic!

larry@stinescorner

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Ande

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rrlund

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Bruce from Can.

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Bob NY

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coshoo

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rrlund

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rrlund

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oldtanker

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rrlund

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coshoo

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oldtanker

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rrlund

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centash

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