wheels and tires

jim buford · Dec 2, 2018

I recently had a tire that looked perfect(I paid extra because rear tires looked brand new and no sign of rot on wheels) from the outside split and when took to tire shop for repair I found the calcium chloride fluid in tire had destroyed the wheel and it had cut the tire so badly I had to replace tube, wheel and tire. Question: when I find what looks to be a good deal with good tires but has fluid in it that appears to be CaCL2 how can I know what I have for sure without having the tires broke down from the rims? In the absence of proof to the contrary my position going forward on old iron is that any tire with this stuff in it has done a number on tire and wheel so will discount the value regardless of how it looks otherwise from the outside. How do you guys respond to this situation? Thanks

Bob Bancroft · Dec 2, 2018

I have not seen a tire/rim with CaCl in it that did not have some level of damage. From a little corrosion around the valve stem, to a ruined rim. I have purchased new rims for several old tractors. On the rims I have re-used, the one thing I have found that gets down in the steel and gets the salt out is my high pressure washer. It's not a steam cleaner, but almost!

I have a tractor here now which unfortunately has CaCl in the tires, only because when I bought it a couple years ago it came that way. I replaced the "water valve" assemblies. They were seeping, and I was afraid they were going to break off before I could get them out. They only need to be finger tight as the o-ring is what seals them. If I ever have to replace these tires, it's going to be another major rim clean up job.

caterpillar guy · Dec 2, 2018

If you have rusted rims it is because the previous owner didn't fix the leaks right away. We have an H with the original rims and I have changed the tires twice now for new tires. I don't think they use the level of galvanizing now that was used then.
We have not had to change a rim on a tractor due to rotted out that I know of and all of the tractors here have been here for at least 5 years and some for over 40. The H was bought new in 53. 574 in 72 bought new same rims with a couple of tire changes to new tires as the previous set wore out. Loaders are harder on tires with the spinning.

Andy Martin · Dec 2, 2018

(quoted from post at 04:05:50 12/02/18) If you have rusted rims it is because the previous owner didn't fix the leaks right away. We have an H with the original rims and I have changed the tires twice now for new tires. I don't think they use the level of galvanizing now that was used then.
We have not had to change a rim on a tractor due to rotted out that I know of and all of the tractors here have been here for at least 5 years and some for over 40. The H was bought new in 53. 574 in 72 bought new same rims with a couple of tire changes to new tires as the previous set wore out. Loaders are harder on tires with the spinning.

All those tires have fluid in them?

Traditional Farmer · Dec 2, 2018

I've seen where the tube started leaking a long the rim not near the valve and the first indicator of a leak was a hole in the rim,no way to know what was going on.

showcrop · Dec 2, 2018

Calcium chloride has never ruined a single rim, procrastination does. Rust is oxidation. Oxidation requires oxygen. The oxygen is consumed and oxidation stops unless more oxygen is added, which some people will do every time they go to use that tractor with the leaking tire. The chance of a rim and tire being ruined without it showing on the outside is so slight as to be inconsequential. It would require a leak in just the right place on a tire, a place for air to get in, having the tractor up on blocks, and no use of the tractor for years. Very difficult conditions to achieve!

jim buford · Dec 2, 2018

I get your point but in this case I recently bought the tractor and there was no sign whatsoever of external damage and the tires looked
perfect and except for flaking paint so did the rims. It showed up when I moved it the second time and a split developed in the tire. My
first notice of a problem but apparently the rotted rim cut through the tube and did a number on the tire. I took to a tire shop for
repairs and the rest is history. Calcium Chloride is corrosive and by the time anything is seen it may be as in this case too late to stop
the process. The previous owner may have known something but it was certainly not visible to me. If it will not ruin a rim why is it not
being used now as in the past? Where was the procrastination here? Thanks

jim buford · Dec 2, 2018

I'm not opposed to fluid in tires but there are plenty of options other than to use CaCL. When a lot of these old tractors were put into
operation this was the stuff of choice for rear ballast. Over 50-60 years I will have to assume there is some damage whether visible or
not. Occasionally I find one that is not loaded.

Traditional Farmer · Dec 2, 2018

Never saw a rim that didn't have Calcium in it rot out from Calcium damage but have seen hundreds rotted out that did have calcium in them.Of course its up to the end user to use it or not
plenty of alternatives these days that won't rot rims.Personally I have better things to do than constantly be checking every tire on the farm for a calcium leak.

jim buford · Dec 2, 2018

You are probably right about the previous owner and that gets to my point which is if that stuff is in the tire I am going to assume there is some damage regardless of how it looks on the outside. He may just not think it is relevant to tell me he has to air up the tire every time he uses it and like Showcrop says he procrastinates on getting the repairs made and in the meantime oxygen is getting in and damage is expanding.

JD Seller · Dec 2, 2018

Well I have a simple rule to go by. If they have fluid in the tires I assume the rims are junk. I then adjust the value accordingly.

Royse · Dec 2, 2018

"there are plenty of options other than to use CaCL"

Yes there are and many are less corrosive.
None that I know of that equal the weight of CaCl though.
I've dealt with a lot of rusted out rims and I have to agree with
Showcrop and Caterpillar Guy, all of them I've seen were leaks
that were ignored and not fixed. My '53 JD has the original rims
and they are still loaded with CaCl. In tubes of course.
They don't leak and they have never rusted.

These Ford PA rims came on a tractor I bought a while back.
The seller told me his grandfather bought it new.
Grandfather, father and the seller all just added air when needed.
None of them fixed the leaks.
First picture is external view when I looked at them.
Obviously still holding air and look "Ok" but the metal was "soft".
Second is after I took the tire off and hit it with a needle scaler.

hd6gtom · Dec 2, 2018

I spent 22 years owning a farm tire shop. I have seen tractors from the early 1940's, tires full of fluid with no damage to the rims. I have seen people too cheap to buy a tube put fluid in TL tires. Rims are always very rusty. As stated rims rust out because the owners are too cheap to have a tire repaired, they just keep airing them up. The major problems are those useless hat rims on n fords. When replacing tires on 1 of them I always took 2 new rims, tubes, and tires. Majority of the time I had to replace everything except the bolts holding the rims to the centers. More than likely you need to replace the other rim too.

jim buford · Dec 2, 2018

Your last sentence sums up what I am saying. The other tire holding air great. No sign of rust and tire looks excellent, but you are saying likely the damage is there regardless. My point entirely. You can't go by what you see externally even with no evidence to the contrary there is likely to be damage so discount the value of the tractor and don't go by what it looks like externally.

showcrop · Dec 3, 2018

(quoted from post at 19:57:40 12/02/18) Your last sentence sums up what I am saying. The other tire holding air great. No sign of rust and tire looks excellent, but you are saying likely the damage is there regardless. My point entirely. You can't go by what you see externally even with no evidence to the contrary there is likely to be damage so discount the value of the tractor and don't go by what it looks like externally.

Jim, it remains that there is virtually always loss of pressure and evidence of leakage when the tube is leaking. As I said earlier "It would require a leak in just the right place on a tire, a place for air to get in, having the tractor up on blocks, and no use of the tractor for years. Very difficult conditions to achieve!" Your situation is extremely rare.

rockyridgefarm · Dec 3, 2018

As JD Seller says, If I see the tractor has fluid in it, I mentally adjust down what I'll pay. I have a 2020 I bought last year that I need to address, but haven't gotten around to it. One rim is newish and one has a rotted out valve stem hole. I only haven't done anything yet because I am seriously considering going to a taller tire. Once I figure it out, the CaCl will be gone and weight will be added with cast iron.

As far as CaCl rot being the owner's fault - I could not care less. I still figure the rim is junk. If I'm wrong, it's a bonus to me that I don't have to buy a rim. A handful of stories about good original rims doesn't match the hundreds of bad rims I've seen.

BarnyardEngineering · Dec 3, 2018

I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that a rim could be so rotten that it cuts the tire, without it being visible on the outside.

jim buford · Dec 3, 2018

Regardless of what you say it was not visible. The split in the tire developed close to the tread and had not gone down prior to the split
occurring because I had just moved it second time since buying it. I took to Tucker Tire from Dyersburg TN who advertises in the farm
tractor association mags and Tucker himself who has been in business since the 70's did not see it either until it was broke down. We were
all surprised at the extent of the damage.

wheels and tires

jim buford

Member

Bob Bancroft

Well-known Member

caterpillar guy

Well-known Member

Andy Martin

Well-known Member

Traditional Farmer

Well-known Member

showcrop

Well-known Member

jim buford

Member

jim buford

Member

Traditional Farmer

Well-known Member

jim buford

Member

JD Seller

Well-known Member

Royse

Well-known Member

hd6gtom

Well-known Member

jim buford

Member

showcrop

Well-known Member

rockyridgefarm

Well-known Member

BarnyardEngineering

Well-known Member

jim buford

Member

Similar threads