Flatheads Forever

Not wanting to hijack BTM's flathead post below, I've started a new post about the last stand of automotive flathead engines.

In the very early 1950s, the Hudson Hornet ruled the stock car racing circuit that became NASCAR.

The Hornet was powered by a 308 CI flathead six with twin single barrel carburetors, "high compression" cylinder head, and low restriction exhaust. The Hudsons were also advantaged by the, then innovative, Hudson "step down" design that lowered the center of gravity of the cars. Within years, all US automotive manufacturers would follow Hudson's lead by producing cars with similar design.

The Hudson Hornets dominated stock car racing for a couple of years after the OHV Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs were introduced in 1949.

Though automotive flat head engines were produced until the mid/late 1950s, the handwriting had been on the wall since WWII.

FWIW, I saw a Hudson Hornet with "Twin H Power" at an auto show this past year. IIRC, it was a 1952. I spent the best part of an hour speaking with the owner about Hudsons. During this time, I remember no one else even stopping to look at his Hudson. Sad.

Dean
Hudson Hornet

There was a Hudson on "Pawn Stars" last night. Guys gave hime $20,000 for it but it was fully restored. I've always wondered why Mercury never made a showing at Nascar with their 255 flathead. I think the Lincolns fared better but they had the bigger flathead. Then in 52 they got the "Y block", Ford's first ohv engine. Ford went on with the flathead til the end of 54 here in Canada but the Mercs got the OHV in 54.
I love my old flathead Merc.

In 1956 I bought a used 1952 Hudson wasp, from Marshal Chevrolet, in Winchester, Illinois. It was canary yellow on the bottom half, and a dark green on top. It was a 2 door car , with twin H single barrel carbs, and 3spd on the column, with overdrive. I was an 18 year old farm boy, and performance didn't mean anything to me. I sold the car to Lee Hess, who ran the Texico gas station, in Milton Illinois. Lee raced cars at the dirt oval track in Pittsfield Illinois, and wanted the car for racing. It was only about 5 years old, when Lee bought it from me. I don't know how that worked out for Lee.

The last time I was there, there was a Hudson stock car parked in front of the Museum, Hall of Fame, and gift shop by the track at Talledega.

Don't know if it's still there.

BTW, the museum also had one of Art Arfons' "Green Monsters", the first car that hit 200 in the quarter. Talk about a piece of junk for going 200mph. It had split rim dual wheels in back, the frame rails had been cut with a torch without even knocking the slag off, etc. No rear suspension, the frame just bolted to the axle. I can't imagine those split rims going 200.

Don't know if it was this Green Monster or not, but a reporter once asked Arfons what the car had for steering. Arfons replied, "'49 Packard".

The reporter asked why '49 Packard, assuming there were engineering principles involved. Arfons replied, "It was the only thing I could find laying out in back of the shop".

I haven't seen the movie Cars but wasn't the car voiced by Paul Newnan a Hudson that dominated the track in the good old days?
Doc Hudson

I had a 53 Ford with 239 flathead. Thought "Y" was in 54 as a 239.

I am building a 52 Plymouth flat head engine, for my business coupe, a little at a time. Something always comes up to fix. tractor, trucks, and just about anything else around me that breaks. When I go to a car show all I see is big V8's in old cars. No one wants to mess with a flat head. When I get done, it will not have a lot more power, but that's what I'm going to do. Stan

A 308 cid 6 cylinder will do well against lesser cubes. Torque Oh Yeah. Jim

Yeah i like them too, but the Merc flathead had a lot more power than the ford flathead, it was just a 1/4 in longer stroke.

(quoted from post at 19:25:03 12/01/18) I had a 53 Ford with 239 flathead. Thought "Y" was in 54 as a 239.

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U.S. built Fords got the OHV in 54 but Canada kept the flathead through 54 in Fords. Mercury and Monarch got the OHV. Canadian built cars have a few differences from U.S. built.

(quoted from post at 20:29:33 12/01/18) Yeah i like them too, but the Merc flathead had a lot more power than the ford flathead, it was just a 1/4 in longer stroke.

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Only about 15 horsepower difference in 52. My Merc 255 flathead is rated at 125 hp. Fords 239 cubic inch rated at 110 hp.

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I've had just the opposite experience at car shows. Everybody stops by, "my uncle had one of these", etc. I was next to a really nice Chevelle that wound up Best in Show once- everybody walked by his car to look at mine. As we were packing up to leave, he smiled and said "Note to self- Don't park next to the Hudson."

In high school I worked at a "Humble" (Oil and Refining Co.....now Exxon) gas station. One day the owner called me over and said to go service that Hudson over there and handed me the keys. First thing I noticed was the "step down" you mention.

OT humor while working there: On another occasion he gave me the keys to about a 1956 Packard with the then air bag suspension. I jacked it up from the front to do whatever I need to do to it and upon letting it down, the rear wouldn't come back to level....remained squatted down. Scared the begeebies out of me. I go over to him in due distress.....oh what have I done? He got a big bang (had a vivid sense of tease) out of my concern and told me to go over and crank it up. I did and it leveled and all was well.

I have recently observed in current readings of the subject, that the flatheads of the early days (1950's and back) were undersquare making for good torque for the small HP engines that they were. The little 100 hp (Brake Hp rating) Ford V8s with which I grew up were impressive performers under the then current conditions. I too was witness to the heat problems with the exhaust routing problems and experienced block cracking in the exhaust valve-cylinder area. Just a couple of comments.

Dean, you would enjoy the Automobile Museum in Saratoga Springs, NY.

Have one in the shop now. Trying to preserve it. All the plugs were rusted so bad the porcelain was loose, got 5 out so far with easy outs. Engine is free, 1938 GMC 1 1)2 ton doodlebug.

Hudson engines used a high-nickel block that was long-lived, but the engines tended to use oil if you drove them easy. The rings would not seat, particularly if you used chrome rings. I've been told that Hudsons in Nascar used so much oil, they had one-gallon oil containers set up to use in pit stops. The old saying "Fill it up with oil and check the gas" is said to have come from Hudson's racing days. They would run like hell until the oil pressure started dropping, them come in for a pit stop.

Remember the song "Hot Rod Lincoln?" The 336 cid Lincoln/Ford truck engine was the hot setup if you wanted a "flattie". I knew a guy in school that had one in a '53 Ford. He had a 3/4 cam and eight Windfield 97's on it. It had three-on-the-tree and overdrive. It was pretty much as old roach car, but it ran like a scalded dog.

(quoted from post at 01:49:47 12/02/18) The last time I was there, there was a Hudson stock car parked in front of the Museum, Hall of Fame, and gift shop by the track at Talledega.

Don't know if it's still there.

BTW, the museum also had one of Art Arfons' "Green Monsters", the first car that hit 200 in the quarter. Talk about a piece of junk for going 200mph. It had split rim dual wheels in back, the frame rails had been cut with a torch without even knocking the slag off, etc. No rear suspension, the frame just bolted to the axle. I can't imagine those split rims going 200.

Don't know if it was this Green Monster or not, but a reporter once asked Arfons what the car had for steering. Arfons replied, "'49 Packard".

The reporter asked why '49 Packard, assuming there were engineering principles involved. Arfons replied, "It was the only thing I could find laying out in back of the shop".

Click to expand...

Don Garlits holds the distinction of recording the first official 200 mph quarter mile run.

Ironically, in the topic earlier regarding engine temp someone mentioned Smokey Yunick. Smokey raced the Huson Hornet and ran the engine in a CCW direction as you looked at the front pulley. This, he said, helped keep the torque response lean the car to the left side, making it possible to go through the turns even faster. It was one thing that caused the rules to change to allow only CW rotation in the engine.