37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
Does anyone know what causes a washboard road. Seams just driving straight, the road should stay flat. Any thoughts? Stan
- Thread starter 37chief
- Start date
Glen SW Wi
Member
The plow blade starts bouncing on very hard dry ground. Not quite as apt to washboard on wet ground. A slower speed of grading helps reduce the bounce also.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
Here is mostly happens at intersections where people step on the gas too hard and a little bit of wheel slip on each side makes a series of little ridges. The next that hits it gets it a little worse. Finally it gets to the point you either have to spin your wheels or else take very slow pressure on the gas to get up to speed. Or else you bounce all over. Worse if it is a hill to climb after turning the corner. You can tell if a driveway has mostly older guys on it by the lack of washboard 
Jaden
Member
- Location
- Eastern Nebraska
Our county has started using a device on the front of the grader. It breaks up the road surface with small v-notches. Works pretty well to get rid of the wash boards. Goose may know more about what I'm referring to.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
Our grader operators do a fine job of smoothing out the roads but in no time the heavy footed drivers have roughened up the intersections again. What can you expect with all these high horsepower pickups with no weight on the back end and a heavy footed driver in the seat? Wheel-spin happens.
Kansasredneck
Member
If they were caused by the grader patrol, they would be at an angle to the road. The graders never run with the blade straight, they move the windrow from side to side.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
My theory, for what it's worth... LOL
It falls back on nature takes the path of least resistance.
Forces of nature tend to move in waves, think sound, light, vibrations, etc.
Look at the ripples on a sand dune, waves on the ocean, wind blowing across a grassland. All travel in rhythmic motions, each being influenced by the one going before and after.
If you have ever tried to run a metal lathe, chatter is always your worst enemy. The tool naturally wants to chatter, once it starts it will rapidly get worse until you take corrective action, which sometimes can be very frustrating to find!
Now think about a wheel rolling over a fluid surface (sand, gravel, asphalt). It naturally wants to react to the balance of gravity vs rebound, same thing any moving object wants to do. Doesn't take long for a pattern to develop, pushed up by the high spots, rebounding forming a low spot, just like a chattering lathe tool, waves on water, wind driven dune ripples.
What's worse about the rolling wheel, the shock absorber tries to control the bounce, but is not 100% effective, then there is the uncontrolled rebound of the pneumatic tire, you have the perfect storm for making of a washboard road!
It falls back on nature takes the path of least resistance.
Forces of nature tend to move in waves, think sound, light, vibrations, etc.
Look at the ripples on a sand dune, waves on the ocean, wind blowing across a grassland. All travel in rhythmic motions, each being influenced by the one going before and after.
If you have ever tried to run a metal lathe, chatter is always your worst enemy. The tool naturally wants to chatter, once it starts it will rapidly get worse until you take corrective action, which sometimes can be very frustrating to find!
Now think about a wheel rolling over a fluid surface (sand, gravel, asphalt). It naturally wants to react to the balance of gravity vs rebound, same thing any moving object wants to do. Doesn't take long for a pattern to develop, pushed up by the high spots, rebounding forming a low spot, just like a chattering lathe tool, waves on water, wind driven dune ripples.
What's worse about the rolling wheel, the shock absorber tries to control the bounce, but is not 100% effective, then there is the uncontrolled rebound of the pneumatic tire, you have the perfect storm for making of a washboard road!
Dennis Minn
Member
37chief,
I'd be willing to bet the neighbor kid with the un-laden truck could offer classes as to how the road gets tore up.
It seems he cannot wait to rev that vehicle, especially when fresh-graded roads are underfoot.
D.
I'd be willing to bet the neighbor kid with the un-laden truck could offer classes as to how the road gets tore up.
It seems he cannot wait to rev that vehicle, especially when fresh-graded roads are underfoot.
D.
On gravel roads you can get the washboard efect with just your 3 point hitch blade. The wrong tilt of the blade will make it. And I have never seen it at intersections like others are saying. It is always full length of road or your driveway. Just take your standard 3 point blade and play with it adjusting the tilt and you will see where a certain way of tilting will make the blade jump that makes the washboarding and a different tilt leaves it nice and smoth.
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
In my area when the county grades the road the blade bounces making the washboard texture.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
If your talking about gravel road many time it is caused by people driving to slow. When a person drives to slow the wheel bounce more then driving fat so the wash board is caused.
rusty6
Well-known Member
- Location
- East central Sask.
I have never seen washboard from a blade. You can make those big roller coaster "whoop de doos" with the blade if there is a lot of slack in the linkage. (I've done it) but they are many feet apart. Those annoying little chattering ripples on the corners are from slipping tires. On rare occasions I will see this ripple effect out on the level on a straight road through sandy soil. Kind of a "standing wave" effect in which the loose sand is pushed by the high speed rolling tires and forms ripples as the tires jump over that wave. Multiplied many times over it can become undrivable at high speed.
I agree with you 100%, kansas, At least around here the graders are run with the blade at a considerable angle to roll material from one side of the line to the other, yet the "washboards" or more or less perfectly perpendicular to the road.
An older grader operator here, having gotten tired of getting blamed for the washboards, blames them on "antilock brakes".
NOT sure what his theory is, but then, I guess he doesn't need one!
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
The road to 'hole in the rock' in Utah has to be the worst....and a flat road at that, I think it is 60+ miles of shaking.
flying belgian
Well-known Member
You are absolutely right. Graders do not cause washboards. However they don't always run blade at an angle. Our latest operator makes 3 passes. Two at an angle bringing edges in. Then one across the top with blade straight to spread the windrow out a little. Don't know where he learned that but it works really good. Now if we could just get him to grade more often.
motoOzarks
Member
- Location
- Southwest Missouri Ozarks
movement of the ground underneath from moisture changes and freeze thaw cycles will move gravel around a bit
motoOzarks
Member
- Location
- Southwest Missouri Ozarks
movement of the ground underneath from moisture changes and freeze thaw cycles will move gravel around a bit
Goose
Well-known Member
Yeah.
Washboarding is actually caused by vehicles accelerating and braking. That's why it's more likely to occur near intersections, on hills, etc. The only way to get rid of it is to cut below the bottom of it.
What Jaden is referring to is known as a "Sandvick" blade mounted on the front of a road maintainer on the vee snowplow mounts. It's a vee blade with teeth to cut below the bottom of the Washboarding. Once the top several inches of surface are broken up, it can be bladed smooth again.
Next is a scarifier with coarser teeth, mounted the same way, for more severe cases.
The bottom line is, the only way to get rid of washboarding is to cut below the bottom of it and blade the surface smooth again. And, a lot of that depends on the skill level and work ethic of the machine operator. Our county has 16 precincts, with one machine and operator assigned to each precinct. And, each operator has his own skill level and work ethic, so some precincts have better roads than others. Some take great pride in the job they do, and others are "less dedicated", to be charitable. I ran across one machine, maybe 5-7 years old with a scarifier on the front. The scarifier still had the factory paint on it. In short, after all of the roads it had gone over, the scarifier had never been used.
The operator in the precinct where I live is great. We hired him away from the Nebraska Department of Roads. He said he was bored standing around all day at NDOR and wanted a job where he could keep busy.
Hope this info helps.
Washboarding is actually caused by vehicles accelerating and braking. That's why it's more likely to occur near intersections, on hills, etc. The only way to get rid of it is to cut below the bottom of it.
What Jaden is referring to is known as a "Sandvick" blade mounted on the front of a road maintainer on the vee snowplow mounts. It's a vee blade with teeth to cut below the bottom of the Washboarding. Once the top several inches of surface are broken up, it can be bladed smooth again.
Next is a scarifier with coarser teeth, mounted the same way, for more severe cases.
The bottom line is, the only way to get rid of washboarding is to cut below the bottom of it and blade the surface smooth again. And, a lot of that depends on the skill level and work ethic of the machine operator. Our county has 16 precincts, with one machine and operator assigned to each precinct. And, each operator has his own skill level and work ethic, so some precincts have better roads than others. Some take great pride in the job they do, and others are "less dedicated", to be charitable. I ran across one machine, maybe 5-7 years old with a scarifier on the front. The scarifier still had the factory paint on it. In short, after all of the roads it had gone over, the scarifier had never been used.
The operator in the precinct where I live is great. We hired him away from the Nebraska Department of Roads. He said he was bored standing around all day at NDOR and wanted a job where he could keep busy.
Hope this info helps.
shaun wallace
Well-known Member
Iam going with Speed and dry weather. Several county roads are wash boarded on strait aways in my area. When driven on at 50-60 mph it happens real quick. I wont drive on them at much more than 20-25 mph and have been pasted by people by getting in bar ditch to pass me and that's the last I see of them but the cloud of dust.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Stan,
If you are referring to gravel roads the cause could be rain washing the small sand particles to the sides and leaving the larger gravel. More rain, more erosion.
Asphalt roads at stop lights seem to have more issues. Coming into Terre Haute from the North on 63 you come to a stop light. All semi traffic heading south uses 63. I think it the warm asphalt and the big rigs stopping moves the asphalt.
If you are referring to gravel roads the cause could be rain washing the small sand particles to the sides and leaving the larger gravel. More rain, more erosion.
Asphalt roads at stop lights seem to have more issues. Coming into Terre Haute from the North on 63 you come to a stop light. All semi traffic heading south uses 63. I think it the warm asphalt and the big rigs stopping moves the asphalt.
showcrop
Well-known Member
I will weigh in and agree that it is mainly the slight hop due to speed, but also acceleration and deceleration. When our town had more gravel roads it was always noticeable that up hills were worse, as were intersections. Yes, the grader must cut deep enough to move all of the gravel to the bottom of the wash board. They develop faster when the gravel is dry simply because the particles move past each other more easily.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
I haven't a clue what actually "causes it" but after reading all of the replies below, it appears as if the YT crowd have a lot of their own theories. I hope that someone with a PhD in road construction or geology steps up to the plate and sets the record straight before this gets buried on page 2 or 3.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
Oops .... I didn't open the link posted by 3000OH that gives a pretty good scientific explanation. That's the one I'll put my money on.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Did you not read Goose's 1st reply. He should be more qualified to give correct answer than most folks because IIRC he's a "county commissioner"
T in NE
Well-known Member
- Location
- Cambridge, Nebraska
The fastest way to washboard a road is to put someone who views the throttle as an on/off switch in a vehicle with a high torque to weight ratio.
I've ran for days on road and it was still smooth. Someone else jumps in the truck and in 3 trips you can't drive on it without losing fillings.
I've ran for days on road and it was still smooth. Someone else jumps in the truck and in 3 trips you can't drive on it without losing fillings.
I should run away from this one but here goes, as a motor grader operator/ operator training instructor. I can tell you one thing. Washboards are caused by traffic, Pot holes are caused by motor graders or rather the operator not maintaining enough crown/ drainage. I can usually follow the wash boards right back to the drive way of the lead foot who creates them. Sometimes to the point of where their
automatic transmission shifts! Spinning or sliding tires cause washboards. Gravel pack also has a limit to it's cohesion, once a vehicles shock wave is greater than the cohesion factor the crust will yield and washboard. Thats why flat straight roads will washboard because speed magnifies the shock wave. I have a Sandvic pick upfront, or I can go more aggressive and use my Grader bit pick. AS for the grader causing the washboards only a rookie or an operator who doesn't care would ride out a grader hop. You can feel it in your seat and correct it the instant it starts. My Grader is equipped with stable blade or bounce control, I turned it off because I can feel and correct it faster than the sensors. A grader operator can do lots of things to minimize the washboards but he can't work miracles especially in dry conditions. The Smoother I make em, the faster they go, the quicker they turn to crap.
I have to train new operators to deal with the public and their misconceptions of what road graders and their operators are capable of. Conditions change daily sometimes hourly. I often tell them the day they think they know everything and there is nothing more to learn is the day they become worthless. One of our veteran operators was stopped by a gal who told him "I don't know how to run one of these but your doing it wrong". There are some great operators who just can't handle dealing with the public and quit. Not always a good thing to open yourself up to it.
showcrop
Well-known Member
36F350, this last Sept. at the county fair I ran into the fellow from two towns over who grades our towns roads twice a year. I have known him for a long time. I complemented him on the great job of recovering a dirt road in his town where he is road agent immediately after a heavy rain storm. I also complimented him on putting a good crown on my town's dirt roads.
Destroked 450
Well-known Member
- Location
- Harned, Ky
I'm not a expert or have a phd, barely did get through high school, but I have lived on and helped maintain the same gravel road I've lived on my hole life. The first 2.75 ten's is up hill with the remaining mile rolling with some level.
Last year they blacktop'd the first 3 ten's and chip and sealed the remaining portion so now I only have to grade the 950 ft drive way to our poultry barns.
The biggest contributing factor to wash boarding on our road has been pickup trucks with worn shocks, the rear suspension design on pickups amplifies the wheel hop effect, without good shocks to dampen this effect it becomes more pronounced wash boarding the road at a faster rate.
I've spent a good amount of time grading the road surface smooth only to find ripples in the road from the very next vehicle that drove on it, I've followed those ripples to mine or a neighbors driveway to find that someone in a pickup had just driven on the road.
Replacing the rear shocks didn't completely eliminate the wash boarding but it did increase the amount of time it took the road to become wash boarded again, often times from a few days to several weeks.
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