Allis Chalmers

Just following a discussion on another site which drifted into discussing AC. Talked somewhat about the course of AC from the 1960's into the 1970's. What I
remember being said by the local AC dealer among other AC people back then was that ,yes, maximizing profits on existing designs by both AC and other companies was
paramount as pressure was on the farm equipment division to match the profitability of other segments of the company. At one point it had sunk to the point where the
farm equipment division was viewed as an outlet for engines and other mass produced components and not much more. Then the grain boom of the 1970's hit and that
had renewed interest in growing the farm equipment division. The trouble was although it could not be seen at the time was it was already too late even though the company
would not die until another decade and a half had passed. The products had lagged in certain lines such as hay and forage that AC had lost tremendous share of what it
did have and watched short liners entrench themselves there. Lines such as tractors and combines took over a decade to catch the industry leaders in terms of
technology with the results being mixed. Tractors went well enough but the first rotary combines were plagued with issues. Even towards the very end new tillage
products were released such as disk-chisels (soil savers) and moldboard plows were being readied for production.

"The farm equipment division was viewed as an outlet for engines"

WOW, as they didn't have a tough tractor engine.

NOT trying to "diss" a brand name here, but in my area, in the 70's and 80's, in heavy tillage/wheat country, the small displacement/high reving engines, the pathetic transmissions and undersized final drives simply weren't up to the task.

Wish I had some photos to post of the ralphed rear ends in the grass behind the nearby dealership when they were sold out.

That stuff broke 'em.

Dunno how to defend a brand/tractor/engine that was simply WEAK.

I've never heard of trouble behind the flywheel on a 7000 series tractor. The engines were good and made power, but they didn't have the rod caps designed right and they were known to let go. The 301 was better than the 426. Wish they would have used the 544 more. That would have made one whale of a tractor.
AaronSEIA

I didn't say that they were high quality although some of the engines were respectable. You did see AC motors in other applications and AC did build equipment other than farm machinery. AC around NY was on the next rung down on the ladder from JD and IH in terms of sales volume back in the pre-merger days prior to the mid-1980's. AC tractors fit farms where a lot of tillage was not done on an annual basis such as small dairy. A lot of Gleaner combines got sold around the state back in the day. Probably more than IH. The guys on the other site bashed AC dealers pretty good but a number of them here had a pretty good reputation.

Trying to figure out why AC (or Case or Oliver or Ford or any other company) did what it did back in the day is an exercise in futility. Seems the 2 general reasons for poor decisions were either lack of foresight by the guys running the show that thought things would remain static or the rush to put something, ANYTHING, new out there to get some cash flow.

IMO, all the big names made some darn fine equipment over the years.

(quoted from post at 05:52:58 11/04/18) AC tractors fit farms where a lot of tillage was not done on an annual basis such as small dairy. A lot of Gleaner combines got sold around the state back in the day. Probably more than IH.

Click to expand...

LOL IH just didn't have the reputation in combines that AC, JD and MF had. General consensus of farmers in the early 70's was JD#1 for a combination of clean harvesting and durability. MF#2 and Gleaner#3. The Gleaner was considered the cleanest of the bunch.

Bret: Because of the military I was all over the country in the mid to late 70's. Was kinda amazing how you could go from one area to the next and brand preference completely shifted. Do a little digging and you find that 1: companies could be under represented in an area 2: bad dealers 3: profitability of the farms.

Our area here was very interesting. In 72/73 in the immediate area preference was IH, AC and other, even though the 2 closest dealers were Ford and JD. Case, Oliver, MM and MF were not represented well if at all in the area.

The Ford dealer wanted to sell cars but because of location For had forced him to sell AG too. The JD guy figured that if he did have parts in stock you would buy something on the lot if had crops to harvest rather than wait. By the late 70's the Ford dealer was gone and the JD guy had passed. Man there were green tractors everywhere! The dealer who took over really put the emphasis on supporting JD products and just a couple of years made all the difference.

Another factor was just how profitable farms were. Right here the average farm was 160 acres and dairy milking on average 20 cows. East of us was 120 acres and 10-15 cows. Out east of us there was a strong AC presence mostly because they cost less.

Rick

Hey Bob, what's your brand? Bet whatever it is someone could find some things wrong with it. Allis made some good engines and had a good reputation where I grew up. Their problem around us was on the harvest side, choppers, balers etc.

Allis Chalmers reason for decline and failing in farm equipment division was they didn't want to innovate.

During the 1960's that was true as they had a milk the company for all it was worth approach. Any new products then were "me too" in nature. The trouble was that period ultimately cost the company. By the mid-1970's there were a lot of things going on but it was too late. The 8000 tractor should have been out by 1976 to have taken advantage of the market. The lack of a rotary combine did not hurt them much but not having hay, forage, and materials handling during most of the 1970's really hurt. Not that dairying was immensely profitable but if guys had grain to move they might have spent the profit there and the ag lenders were pretty bullish.

IH's reputation did not cost them but Gleaner often was a cheaper buy. Large scale crop farming simply was not here so most guys could get a number of years out of
a Gleaner before it was wore out. Here it would have been JD then Gleaner with IH in the distance and MF further back. MF had lost quite a bit since the 1950's in terms
of market share. Dealers were a lot in terms of market in that if you had a good one then he would have a following. Every brand had dealers that were strong so IH and
JD did not flat out run away with the market here. Financing was a major consideration with JD and IH having a decided advantage until IH's troubles during the early
1980's. Probably kept a number of mediocre IH and JD dealers going.

Dad worked at the Allis Chalmers LaPorte Works LaPorte, Indiana for 38 years. He retired in the mid 70s but I remember him coming home many years before he retired and said the company was going down the tubes and it was managements fault because they didn't listen to what the farmers wanted.

Might be futile but is certainly suitable for a site concerning YESTERDAY'S Tractors (and equipment).

Get a copy of the book "Plow Peddler" by Walt Buescher. He worked for AC from 1935 to 1975. He started out riveting levers for the All Crop combine and ended up as blockman for eastern Michigan and NW Ohio. He knew that company like few people did. He tells the whole story with a lot of humor too,making it a great read.