Need a little help from the YTSP. We use around 100 gallons of gasoline for our equipment each year. I have been using 5 gallon containers to transport gas home from the gas station. I'm getting tired of lugging these containers around to fill my tractors with gas. Now here's where I need safety help. I'm thinking about using a 55 gallon drum to haul gasoline home, and use a hand pump to dispense the gas. Right now I have a blue plastic barrel I'm thinking about using for this. Does it have to be painted red for this purpose, or can I get by using big decals that have flammable/gasoline on the blue barrel?
- Thread starter L.Fure
- Start date
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
This very subject just got beat to death in Tool Talk, there are many answers to your question! I don't think you can legally haul gas in a
55 gal plastic barrel anywhere.
55 gal plastic barrel anywhere.
john in la
Well-known Member
Yes we just hashed this out in tool talk.
You can go over there and read the replies.
Basically it boils down to the average Joe can not transport gasoline legally in containers of any type that are bigger than 8 gallons.
You can go over there and read the replies.
Basically it boils down to the average Joe can not transport gasoline legally in containers of any type that are bigger than 8 gallons.
55 gallon metal containers are one of the approved ways of hauling gas. I dont know if the plastic containers are approved, but then again, why not.
The problem I have with them, is.... they collect water from being stood on end, and ALWAYS end up with water in the gas or diesel. So I see many tractors with bad injection pumps from using fuel out of 55 gallons drums. yes I know the fuel distributors will sell you fuel in a drum, but either put it under cover, or tilt the drum a bit so that the water will run off the rim before it gets to the bungs. And yes, it was a common refueling option in many areas years ago. The plastic drums actually have drain holes into the rim to keep the water from building up, but the tiny hole stops up very easily and build up water to the openings.
Sorry for the rant.
What is LEGAL, and what you might be able to GET AWAY WITH are different. One thing I didn't think of yesterday was you need to check with your insurance carrier, and fire marshall as to what constitutes "bulk" storage for insurance, and if you have to have a Title III paperwork on file with your local basement savers so they don't get "surprise surprise surprise" if they have to come to your place for an incident. Wouldn't you be upset if you had a loss, and insurance wouldn't pay off do to improper storage.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
"Average Joe" being an average farmer? All of the farmers around here have 100 gallon fuel tanks in the beds of their pickup trucks. They fill those tanks at the local filling stations and then drive home, or to the field where they are working. Some of the bigger operators have trailers built specifically for the purpose of transporting fuel. Having fuel delivered to the farm by a tankwagon truck is a thing of the past.
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
I have a "L" shaped 50 gallon tank with a hand pump I can slide in my Ranger to go fill it or it slides out easy onto a stand I have for it if I need it around the shop for fueling works Great,, I have two 500 gallon tanks on stands I could use but i only need any big quantity during haying and combining so it will go stale before I use that much,, also the low life's steal it if its in a over head tank , only pic I could find at the moment
cnt
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gtractorfan
Well-known Member
High octane race fuel comes to the local NAPA store in 55 gallon STEEL drums. I think steel drums would be safer, more puncture resistant than plastic. BTW, what about those in-bed tanks with a pump for pickup truck beds that are commonly used if only 8 gallon containers are legal to transport?
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
A nearby farm and trucking company has a fuel delivery truck of their own.
Farmers use fuel transfer tanks in their pickups. A lot of them that I see hold 50 gallons of fuel and are painted white. It's from them I got the idea to use barrels. I can get my hands on steel barrels if that will make it safer.
In our area the fuel delivery companies require 150 gallons for a minimum for delivery. I'm thinking I can use 50 gallons before it can take on any condensation or go bad from sitting in a barrel too long.
If you have a pickup with a large fuel tank and a fuel rail with a presser test port, just use the pickup to haul the gas. Not really hard to add an adaptor and quick disconnect fitting on the test port. Then all you need is a relay and switch under the hood to turn the fuel pump on. I have 10 foot of 1/2" plastic tubing connected to the male end of the quick disconnect.
I did this with my 2000 Chevy 1500 long bed which has a 37 gal tank. Never timed it but would guess it takes about 10 minutes to fill a 5 gal can. I have pumped 20 gal out without starting the truck or putting a charger on the battery, still started without issues.
No problems with legally hauling gas and it's portable. If anyone wants to do this I can probably find the sources for everything needed and can help with the electrical hook up. We can continue in this thread or start another...
I did this with my 2000 Chevy 1500 long bed which has a 37 gal tank. Never timed it but would guess it takes about 10 minutes to fill a 5 gal can. I have pumped 20 gal out without starting the truck or putting a charger on the battery, still started without issues.
No problems with legally hauling gas and it's portable. If anyone wants to do this I can probably find the sources for everything needed and can help with the electrical hook up. We can continue in this thread or start another...
notjustair
Well-known Member
The fuel delivery premium here has jumped to 40
cents a gallon. No one uses it anymore. I still keep
300 gallons in a stand barrel but don?t contract it
anymore. I use my 100 gallon fuel tank in the back
of the pickup and just make three trips when I need
to. With the 12 volt pump on it she makes short
work of 100 gallons. Look on Craig?s list or go to an
auction and get a tank for the back of the pickup.
You could leave the fuel in it and take it out of the
truck with pallet forks and fuel up using the 12 volt
pump as needed.
cents a gallon. No one uses it anymore. I still keep
300 gallons in a stand barrel but don?t contract it
anymore. I use my 100 gallon fuel tank in the back
of the pickup and just make three trips when I need
to. With the 12 volt pump on it she makes short
work of 100 gallons. Look on Craig?s list or go to an
auction and get a tank for the back of the pickup.
You could leave the fuel in it and take it out of the
truck with pallet forks and fuel up using the 12 volt
pump as needed.
I've hauled a lot of fuel in a 55 gal for years. "legal"? I don't know. However,Make sure it is well secured in your bed.A good ratchet strap will do the job. Even if you have to drill holes and install eyebolts to attatch the strap to. However,i don't think I'd 'placard' or paint it red so to draw attention..Just leave it as is,kind of 'fly under the radar'.These days,I have a dual compartment L shaped tank in my pickup so don't use a barrel anymore.
john in la
Well-known Member
[b:654c4848f0]"Average Joe" being an average farmer? All of the farmers around here have 100 gallon fuel tanks in the beds of their pickup trucks. They fill those tanks at the local filling stations and then drive home, or to the field where they are working. Some of the bigger operators have trailers built specifically for the purpose of transporting fuel. Having fuel delivered to the farm by a tankwagon truck is a thing of the past.[/b:654c4848f0]
Every time this subject comes up I try to give the law and what is "Legal"
I have even had Bret4207 a X DOT cop question my answers so he went and ask friends of his on the DOT to confirm my answers.
I deal with this everyday so while I do not know everything I do know more than most on this site.
While a short answer of you can not do it legally should be good enough you always have someone that says "what if"
For the average Joe/Farmer what ever you want to call him.
He can haul Diesel in non bulk containers IE; 119 gallons or less; and load the truck with as many non bulk containers as the truck will haul. This is because Diesel is NOT regulated by the DOT in non bulk containers. It is not considered a haz mat material.
In bulk it is regulated and you must follow DOT haz mat rules that the average Joe/farmer most likely can not unless he is a BTO.
For Gasoline it is regulated in all quantities. Even the empty once contained container is regulated.
You can not transport any quantity of haz mats without following DOT haz mat rules.
For the average joe/farmer/construction worker/ect there is a exception to the rules.
It is called materials of trade rules.
The limit is 440 lbs of all haz mats loaded.
You also have container size conditions.
For a Class III it is 8 gallons.
Gasoline is a Class III product.
For a Class II product I think it is a half a gallon but I would have to go look that up.
So for the average joe/farmer he can haul gasoline in approved containers IE; red with the word gasoline on the package; or has a Class 3 UN1203 placard on all 4 sides. The container can not be over 8 gallons and you can not haul over 440 lbs at once.
Yes they haul gasoline in 55 gallon plastic and steel drums.
Yes they haul gasoline in 9200 tanker trailers.
But these are not average joe/farmers.
They have a approved bill of lading; haz may authority from the government; DOT number; haz mat insurance; CDL with Haz mat endorsement; formal haz mat training; and the list goes on and on.
The average joe/farmer has non of the above.
So to answer the original poster.
Keep using your 5 gallon jugs. OR......
If you want to use your 55 gallon plastic container put UN1203 placards on the drum; fill out a formal bill of lading and do all the other things haz mat transporting requires.
Every time this subject comes up I try to give the law and what is "Legal"
I have even had Bret4207 a X DOT cop question my answers so he went and ask friends of his on the DOT to confirm my answers.
I deal with this everyday so while I do not know everything I do know more than most on this site.
While a short answer of you can not do it legally should be good enough you always have someone that says "what if"
For the average Joe/Farmer what ever you want to call him.
He can haul Diesel in non bulk containers IE; 119 gallons or less; and load the truck with as many non bulk containers as the truck will haul. This is because Diesel is NOT regulated by the DOT in non bulk containers. It is not considered a haz mat material.
In bulk it is regulated and you must follow DOT haz mat rules that the average Joe/farmer most likely can not unless he is a BTO.
For Gasoline it is regulated in all quantities. Even the empty once contained container is regulated.
You can not transport any quantity of haz mats without following DOT haz mat rules.
For the average joe/farmer/construction worker/ect there is a exception to the rules.
It is called materials of trade rules.
The limit is 440 lbs of all haz mats loaded.
You also have container size conditions.
For a Class III it is 8 gallons.
Gasoline is a Class III product.
For a Class II product I think it is a half a gallon but I would have to go look that up.
So for the average joe/farmer he can haul gasoline in approved containers IE; red with the word gasoline on the package; or has a Class 3 UN1203 placard on all 4 sides. The container can not be over 8 gallons and you can not haul over 440 lbs at once.
Yes they haul gasoline in 55 gallon plastic and steel drums.
Yes they haul gasoline in 9200 tanker trailers.
But these are not average joe/farmers.
They have a approved bill of lading; haz may authority from the government; DOT number; haz mat insurance; CDL with Haz mat endorsement; formal haz mat training; and the list goes on and on.
The average joe/farmer has non of the above.
So to answer the original poster.
Keep using your 5 gallon jugs. OR......
If you want to use your 55 gallon plastic container put UN1203 placards on the drum; fill out a formal bill of lading and do all the other things haz mat transporting requires.
Keith True
Well-known Member
I had no idea there were so many laws on the gas tanks.I live near two race tracks and there are three race fuel dealers nearby because of them.It is all in 55 gallon drums.A few years ago I was getting a DOT cert on a trailer,and my truck had the fuel tank in the back.It is two compartment,with two hand pumps,one side for gas and the other for diesel.Each side holds 50 gallons,and has decals that say gasoline on one and diesel on the other.One guy pointed at it,and the other guy said it is bolted to the truck,so it is part of the vehicle.I didn't know what they were talking about,and when in line with the DOT looking at things you do NOT take up one minute asking questions.
john in la
Well-known Member
I have to agree Tim.
But getting caught taking a crapp at the end of the field can not cause you to loss the farm because someone died.
Hauling large quantities of gasoline can and sometimes does.
The real problem with gasoline is we use it everyday without incident.
Because of this we do not consider it dangerous.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Gas Pump Explosion Caused by Static Electricity
But getting caught taking a crapp at the end of the field can not cause you to loss the farm because someone died.
Hauling large quantities of gasoline can and sometimes does.
The real problem with gasoline is we use it everyday without incident.
Because of this we do not consider it dangerous.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Gas Pump Explosion Caused by Static Electricity
like has been said static electracy is the problem I ran truck and trailer hauling fuel and a 5 gal plastic bucket was a big no-no to catch fuel and then one day a mechanic was carrying gas in a white pal and it rub against his coveralls and it caught fire and then he through it and it splashed back on him burning him very bad. if he did not panicked and would have just set it down and moved away the outcome would have been better.
You might still have other alternatives. Buy 150 gallon minimum of over-the-road fuel and fill your pickup from that to keep the fuel fresh. Pay the full delivery charge for only 50 gallons of off-road fuel. Check with your insurance company about fuel/gasoline storage requirements.
I don't see how hauling a barrel of gasoline rolling around in the back of a pickup can be safe or legal today. Some stations might stop you if you try to fill one.
I don't see how hauling a barrel of gasoline rolling around in the back of a pickup can be safe or legal today. Some stations might stop you if you try to fill one.
The 5 gallon cans got too heavy for me some time back, so I started saving 2 1/2 gallon oil containers. Line 'em up across the bed of the truck, climb in and fill 'em up. Filling the tractor doesn't take long (or much effort) if you back the pickup up to the side of the tractor and run a 2 X 12 plank of suitable length from the pickup tailgate to the tractor floorboard, so you can walk across to exchange the jugs as you empty them.
40 cents a gallon for 150 gallon minimum is a $60 delivery charge. That is probably a fair price. 40 cents a gallon for 5 gallons is only $2 per can. It might be worth $2 to the original poster not to handle those heavy gas cans.
Is it possible to pull a pickup along side the tractor and fill the tractor tank from the truck bed or back a pickup to the tractor and fill the tractor tank from the tailgate?
Is it possible to pull a pickup along side the tractor and fill the tractor tank from the truck bed or back a pickup to the tractor and fill the tractor tank from the tailgate?
I understand what everyone is saying and I am not being argumentative. I just was thinking about all the fuel that was hauled in 55 gallon barrels to keep General Patton and the Allied powers going in their battles thru France Germany and Italy. Mo-gas, aviation fuel and diesel. Thinking of the movie "Red Ball Express". Now I'm sure there were incidents and catastrophys. Which is what the laws are trying to avert. I do still think hauling 2 or 3 five gallon jugs of gasoline in the back of a truck while legal is still just as or more dangerous than one 20 or 30 gallon steel container. But I don't make the laws and am not knowledgeable enough to know why one is permissible and the other not. gobble
I haul my gasoline in a 55 gal steel drum secured to the truck bed and put the barrel bungs in the top. Again I am a only quarter mile to the first county road from the station. What gets me I can only store 25 55 gallon drum of oil in a building, but can stack cases of oil (like hay bales) clean to the roof.
I don't remember exactly what it was I questioned you on, but IIRC you were correct. I've kind of gotten out of even trying to supply good info from memory anymore. Been retired almost 10 years and things have changed. For instance, that 440 lbs doesn't ring a bell at all and that's the type of thing that I'd recall. 119 gallons was something we learned real fast!
DOT regs and especially Hazmat regs are the type of thing you have to keep up on to avoid getting egg on your face.
37chief
Well-known Member
- Location
- California
Hauling fuel has always been a problem for me also. I can put 6 jeep cans lined up in the back of my pickup. I use an air operated drum pump to fill my tractor. Not a lot of lifting, and no fun doing a balancing act on the front wheel of my tractor. Dropped my share of cans. Stan
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Just do it.
If you listen to some of the old ladies
here about what you should or shouldn't do
you might as well not get out of bed for
fear of stubbing your toe or getting rained
on.
Sheesh.
If you listen to some of the old ladies
here about what you should or shouldn't do
you might as well not get out of bed for
fear of stubbing your toe or getting rained
on.
Sheesh.
Keith True
Well-known Member
Right now tractor Supply has a nice gas can on sale.It is called a Flo-N-Go.Has wheels on one end,with a hose and two valves on it.The nice part about them is they can be stored standing up against a wall,and are easy to tie in the headboard of a truck.I have a couple of those,I only use the 50 gallon tank now if I want to fill the loader.The new plastic tank from Tractor Supply is 14 gallon,meets DOT and UL codes,and is on sale for $99.99.The race car boys here love them,but they do empty slow,as they are gravity flow with a squeeze nozzle.
Go to the junk yard get a fuel tank from a gas van or pickup, preferably with a fuel
pump already in the tank. Mount to a pallet or make something to hold it. wire a switch
for power away from tank, use fuel cap from vehicle. Strap it to the inside of box of
pick up. You then have a Dot legal fuel container that you can pump fuel from into your
tractor etc. You will be amazed how fast one of those fuel injections pumps can fill a
tank.
pump already in the tank. Mount to a pallet or make something to hold it. wire a switch
for power away from tank, use fuel cap from vehicle. Strap it to the inside of box of
pick up. You then have a Dot legal fuel container that you can pump fuel from into your
tractor etc. You will be amazed how fast one of those fuel injections pumps can fill a
tank.
I looked, but I can't find any documentation outside of standard advertising that outlines exactly what they mean by "DOT compliant". DOT HazMat rules limit gasoline containers to 8 gallons. Maybe they got some sort of exemption, but it's also possible the container meets a requirement for a gas can, but not for a gas can to carry in a vehicle. Something doesn't sound right to me.
No, you don't. A vehicles gas tank is not a DOT approved hazmat container if it's not being used as a gas tank to fuel the vehicle carrying it.
You guys that want to do this, fine by me. Just don't go thinking you're up to snuff. Will you get caught? Hope not. If you do you can argue your case in court. Good luck.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
All it takes is one accident where someone gets hurt or killed and the person breaking the law will be wiped out financially or maybe even negligent criminal charges.Plus if the person is breaking the law insurance probably won't pay either.Not worth the risk to me.
It ain't 1970 anymore.
It ain't 1970 anymore.
I have given up on any plan to haul gasoline in a barrel. While reading everyone's posts I came up with a Duh moment. The nearest gas station is only 3 miles away. I can drive the tractor there and fill the tank. Two of my tractors go 20mph in road gear, so a round trip there and back shouldn't take over 15-20minutes. Providing I don't run into someone that wants to talk politics or something. The third tractor is a 8N that only holds ten gallons and has a gas tank height that is lower than shoulder height. Filling that tank isn't that hard to handle.
These guys are beating this thing to death. I owned a farm fuel business for 14 years. Please do not haul
gas in a plastic 55 gallon barrel. They do make UL approved steel barrels that can haul gasoline. Plackard it
and get the proper magnetic signs for your truck. If you are thinking about using a 55 gallon oil barrel, let
me caution you, the barrels made in the past 25 years are made of far thinner steel than the previous ones.
Someone mentioned hauling for Patton in WW2. Those barrels were very thick, they had to be, some were
actually dropped from planes. You do have a computer, pull up UL approved tanks, do not go cheap, it will
only lead to trouble.
gas in a plastic 55 gallon barrel. They do make UL approved steel barrels that can haul gasoline. Plackard it
and get the proper magnetic signs for your truck. If you are thinking about using a 55 gallon oil barrel, let
me caution you, the barrels made in the past 25 years are made of far thinner steel than the previous ones.
Someone mentioned hauling for Patton in WW2. Those barrels were very thick, they had to be, some were
actually dropped from planes. You do have a computer, pull up UL approved tanks, do not go cheap, it will
only lead to trouble.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Given the amount of property damage and people crippled or killed . The rules for safe handling should be followed.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Bunch of cheapskates who want to Jerry rig some farmer fix . And fuel storage in a 55 gallon drum is just looking for trouble . In particular if standing on end and collecting water.
Use a proper container . Safer plus avoids dirt and water . https://www.tscstores.com/Fuel-Equipment-C822.aspx
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
I looked at those gas caddies, and it just seems like more hassle than it's worth. They weigh 100lbs or so fully filled, so you need to get the loader tractor or skidsteer to get it out of the truck. They are gravity feed so they need to be placed up high unless you want to develop carpal tunnel from squeezing the stupid handle.
You've got a similar situation with any larger tank. Most people don't want it permanently in the back of the truck and 55 gallons of gas is around 350lbs, so it's not like you're going to just pick it up and set it on the ground. You need a machine to move it, which takes time.
As far as the legality of it, New York State limits you to 20 gallons in approved containers before you get into DOT jurisdiction. My coworker researched it for his boat, as he wanted to get out of paying the outrageous marina prices.
That said, what's legal and what you can get away with are two different things. You have to make a decision as to what you are comfortable with. Some people don't like the idea of risking the farm, others believe themselves to be immortal and untouchable.
You've got a similar situation with any larger tank. Most people don't want it permanently in the back of the truck and 55 gallons of gas is around 350lbs, so it's not like you're going to just pick it up and set it on the ground. You need a machine to move it, which takes time.
As far as the legality of it, New York State limits you to 20 gallons in approved containers before you get into DOT jurisdiction. My coworker researched it for his boat, as he wanted to get out of paying the outrageous marina prices.
That said, what's legal and what you can get away with are two different things. You have to make a decision as to what you are comfortable with. Some people don't like the idea of risking the farm, others believe themselves to be immortal and untouchable.
These people went to the trouble of getting DOT cert for gasoline in their transfer tanks.
http://atitank.com/products/dot-refueling-tanks/
I use them to transport aviation fuel, and regular motor gasoline. It's in the back of my pickup truck, and I do not get any stickers, or other certifications, as they said it was not needed to haul gasoline under 450Lbs total weight per vehicle. The tank must be permanently mounted into the vehicle with bolts and secured with straps.
http://atitank.com/products/dot-refueling-tanks/
I use them to transport aviation fuel, and regular motor gasoline. It's in the back of my pickup truck, and I do not get any stickers, or other certifications, as they said it was not needed to haul gasoline under 450Lbs total weight per vehicle. The tank must be permanently mounted into the vehicle with bolts and secured with straps.
And as I stated in the other post in Tool Talk, ATI got their tanks CONSTRUCTION certified by DOT. Unless you have an actual copy of an exemption from FMCSR regs, I imagine this is another misunderstanding. ATI doesn't say anything about their "DOT special permit" relieving anyone from HazMat regs. Here is all they say, verbatim, from their site on the tank linked-
Aluminum tank Industries, Inc. (ATI) has been granted a special permit form the Department of Transportation that pertains to Aluminum Refueling Tanks. This special permit allows you to refuel equipment, machinery, or your vehicle without removing the fuel tank from your vehicle. The special permit authorizes ATI to manufacture, mark, and sell refueling tanks that can store and dispense gasoline, diesel, methanol, aviation fuel, and kerosene up to 119 US gallons.
You will find that most “transfer tanks” are not designed for refueling but to transport non flammable liquids. ATI’s refueling tanks are designed and DOT approved for transport and refueling from while the refueling tank is still in the vehicle. Further benefit from the special permit is that the fuel tank is designed and DOT approved for flammables such as gasoline.
Laws and regulations can be confusing and overwhelming at times. So we’ll try to explain it more thoroughly. The Department of Transportation allows companies to build “transfer tanks” to transport diesel and other non flammable liquids. There are design specs they must follow in order to be compliant. The DOT wrote the specifications that need to be followed, but it is up to the manufacturer to be compliant. In other words, the DOT does not usually check their design or type unless there is an accident. So it is legal to fill and transport non flammable liquids using a “transfer tank” but only privately, they’re not for use in many circumstances. Now if there is an accident, the end user and the manufacturer can be investigated for compliance. Refueling tanks under this special permit are different and here’s how. First, the design, construction, materials, justification, among other things are reviewed by the DOT and approved if they so determine. The manufacturer is required to demonstrate that the special permit achieves the level of safety required. Second, it’s designed for use with flammables such as gasoline. Third, you can pump from it, legally, whether it’s private, commercial, state or otherwise without removing the tank from your vehicle.
50, 80, 100 US gallons is a lot of fuel! The user has a lot of responsibility when carrying that much in a fuel tank. When it comes to quality, legality, and safety, make the right choice. Aluminum Tank Industries, Inc., “Built like a Tank”.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Make note that no where in their "Special Permit" do they mention anything about any user permits or legalities that must be followed when using their products.
Their "Special Permit" only covers how their products are constructed. Not how they are used.
Their "Special Permit" only covers how their products are constructed. Not how they are used.
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