- Thread starter Dean
- Start date
barnyardorange
Member
Good grief. Puts that saying about being ones own worst enemy right in the spotlight. This doesn't surprise me though if it did happen. It's always something.
gtractorfan
Well-known Member
Do like windmills harness the wind, put sails on ships.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
To me looks like a bunch of fake news all for those who want socialism
From the article:
[b:05f0182819]"A single cruise ship in one day generates as much particulate matter as 1 million cars, and 15 of the world's biggest ships emit more sulfur and nitrogen oxides than all the cars on the planet, Goldman Sachs found in a May analysis."[/b:05f0182819]
And where does that "particulate" fall? Duh, mostly in the ocean.
[b:05f0182819]
"One study published in February estimated that the the new rule, once implemented, will prevent 150,000 premature deaths and 7.6 million childhood asthma cases each year". [/b:05f0182819]
Once again, the tree-hugging, "sky is falling" doomsday alarmists are having a field day. They don't care how much they impact the global economy. And who's to say the shipping industry will stand idly by and do nothing? I'm sure there would be waivers and/or delays in the rule if it threatened stability in the economy.
[b:05f0182819]"A single cruise ship in one day generates as much particulate matter as 1 million cars, and 15 of the world's biggest ships emit more sulfur and nitrogen oxides than all the cars on the planet, Goldman Sachs found in a May analysis."[/b:05f0182819]
And where does that "particulate" fall? Duh, mostly in the ocean.
[b:05f0182819]
"One study published in February estimated that the the new rule, once implemented, will prevent 150,000 premature deaths and 7.6 million childhood asthma cases each year". [/b:05f0182819]
Once again, the tree-hugging, "sky is falling" doomsday alarmists are having a field day. They don't care how much they impact the global economy. And who's to say the shipping industry will stand idly by and do nothing? I'm sure there would be waivers and/or delays in the rule if it threatened stability in the economy.
Here in the UK and Europe diesel is already the new 'evil one' - diesel vehicles are being banned from many cities, diesel vehicles are being demonised and heavily taxed - and new diesel vehicle sales banned by 2040 ??? Demand for diesel has already dropped this side of the pond, so maybe that will compensate? Yeah, I know, lunatics taking over the asylum!!!
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
It is nonsensical that we restrict the amount of sulfur in fuel used by land vehicles, but place no restrictions on ships. Everything has a cost, including environmental damage from ships burning bunker oil. It's just that some costs are hidden, while others such as increased fuel costs are not.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
One of the things that ripped the manufacturing out of North America, was the very low cost of transporting goods thousands of miles by ship. If this end to burning bunker oil to power ships comes to a end, it will kill global trade. And production of goods may well be more economically produced closer to were they will be consumed. And that is not all bad, means jobs for folks here in North America, and less jobs for other places like , China , Korea, India, etc.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Plus in North America we have an abundance of Natural Gas and oil so we don't need to ship any in and we have lots of coal.
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
Can these incredible numbers be proved? Or are they numbers that some self proclaimed "expert" pulled out of thin air?
Ken Macfarlane
Well-known Member
It?s impossible to burn heavy fuels with sulphur in them without after treatment like a land based power plant has. They can reduce the particulates and NOx with optimizing the injection system but won?t be able to eliminate it and it does nothing for the sulphur emissions.
1948CaseVAI
Well-known Member
Old has it just right. The massive fires in the west are directly the result of misguided environmentalism. The high cost of energy is the same. Those who would destroy the econmomy in the name of keeping fuel from buring should be punished.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
You are on the right track Tradiional China and India burn lots of coal to make junk to send to us.
Many countries worldwide, China comes to mind, cannot produce enough food to "consume where produced" They need ag commodities from where surpluses are produced like in North or South America. Cheap transportation by ship helps the US farm economy by getting ag exports to overseas markets where they are needed. Great lakes bulk carriers running on cheap fuel helps distribute surpluses from CA & our Midwest to overseas markets . We produce so much here that we need reasonable fuel prices for the ships for our exports.
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
The only real problem with the scenario that we need cheap file to export commodities like grain is. Our commodities are low value raw materials, and they want to send us high value finished products. Maybe higher shipping cost would discourage over production, and prices could rise, as well as a increase in made at home manufactured goods. People could make many of the everyday things we use right here. Like clothes and foot wear, instead of bring them in container loads from third world countries. We used to !!
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Exactly right the wrong thing to do is to send them cheap food and raw materials to manufacture things and ship them back to sell cheap and bankrupt our companies.Personally I would not sell China basic food and very limited supply of raw materials.Don't sell them soybeans and corn,sell them TV dinners,McDonalds burgers,Packaged fried chicken etc.
rlp in Co.
Well-known Member
Ships already switch to diesel and stop burning crude oil, when they get within 10 miles of our ports. I have doubts that burning crude oil out in the middle of the ocean hurts much. Don't tell anyone but I sometimes slip a gallon of used oil in my diesel tank.
For the last 2 months on we have not been selling soybeans to China, the price has dropped 20%, they were a major market but no more. That much drop is enough to bankrupt the Midwest farm economy long term. The US sent 25 trade reps & private reps to Indonesia last week to try to sell farm commodities to Phillipine and other Indonesian countries because of lost markets in China .This was their 3 rd overseas trip in 6 months.They must be doing this for a reason. The lack of export markets now depressing farm prices probably economically affects 500,000 Midwest farmers.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Well the big mistake was ever throwing in with that market in the first place.You deal with a Rattlesnake long enough it'll sooner or later bite you.Even bigger mistake was
getting into a position where all ones income comes from one source.I've always believed in the the old farm saying "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". Of course lower bean prices helps livestock farmers so it goes.
getting into a position where all ones income comes from one source.I've always believed in the the old farm saying "Don't put all your eggs in one basket". Of course lower bean prices helps livestock farmers so it goes.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
If you read the whole article it clearly indicates the fear mongering is just that.
The fear that farmers won't plant as much when fuel prices rise has not been proven in the past. Farmers have been pretty good at borrowing themselves into bankruptcy in order to keep planting.
1/2% sulfur in diesel was so expensive to tool up for that a lot of refineries refused to do so, now there is an undercapacity which has kept diesel prices high.
The U.S. will win in this fuel requirement. We already have overproduction and can tool up for more low sulfur production quickly should the market prices support the expansion costs. And Saudi Arabia is reducing production to prop up prices. Pretty easy for them to raise production of light sweet crude when the price rises moderately.
The article is pure fear mongering.
The fear that farmers won't plant as much when fuel prices rise has not been proven in the past. Farmers have been pretty good at borrowing themselves into bankruptcy in order to keep planting.
1/2% sulfur in diesel was so expensive to tool up for that a lot of refineries refused to do so, now there is an undercapacity which has kept diesel prices high.
The U.S. will win in this fuel requirement. We already have overproduction and can tool up for more low sulfur production quickly should the market prices support the expansion costs. And Saudi Arabia is reducing production to prop up prices. Pretty easy for them to raise production of light sweet crude when the price rises moderately.
The article is pure fear mongering.
DoubleO7
Well-known Member
- Location
- Crystal River, FL
Thsky is falling the sky is falling!!
Do not fret, the shipping companies and the refinery companies will come up with enough cash brides to sway the UN to delay delay delay implementation of this lower emissions on the ocean.
After all, it is still legal to dump raw sewage and garbage in general as long as your 12 miles or more from shore.
Do not fret, the shipping companies and the refinery companies will come up with enough cash brides to sway the UN to delay delay delay implementation of this lower emissions on the ocean.
After all, it is still legal to dump raw sewage and garbage in general as long as your 12 miles or more from shore.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Well the Global Warming thing was getting a little stale and dull so something else to fire folks up.
Kansasredneck
Member
Brought to you by the people who gave us Michael Mann's Hokey Stick.
Keep in mind, this all comes from FOSSIL fuels. At one time those animals and plants were part of the earth's life cycle, eating and being eaten. Then again, maybe all that sulfur is what did them in. /sarc
Keep in mind, this all comes from FOSSIL fuels. At one time those animals and plants were part of the earth's life cycle, eating and being eaten. Then again, maybe all that sulfur is what did them in. /sarc
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