6V Generator system....

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

On my truck- was charging - now its not! Im getting closer just need a bit more advice please. Prestolite Rebuilt Genny - new USA regulator - 8V battery (because the owner wants this); needle on gauge in dash stays on "0". When running I have to jumper the regulator each time I start truck to polarize the system...then ARM post is hot. When running the Field post is NOT hot so I jump the battery hot post to Field- now it is hot while running. Sill shows 8.3 at battery running or not running...this pic is my regulator- should I adjust it or just get a 6V battery...signed- "confused banjoman" Again, thanks.

JMOR · Jul 2, 2018

Picture it too blurred to be of any use. Better picture and some info on what truck, type "A" or type "B" generator & regulator system.

Steve@Advance · Jul 2, 2018

Jog my memory, when we were discussing this the other day, did we ever determine what type generator that is?

Wanting to say being a Prestolite, it is a type B, which has an internally grounded field. That type will go to full charge when the field is jumpered to the battery terminal of the regulator.

If it is a type A, the gen will go to full charge when the field is grounded.

We need to determine this, because they polarize differently. Polarizing is a one time event, having to jumpe the regulator each time is not a polarization problem.

Look at this link, see if it agrees with what you are doing.
Type A & B

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

Ok- it is a Prestolite(believe I put that in post); pic of regulator is to show the bottom and how to adjust( if necessary) the bat terminal I believe is the one? Has a spring and two tabs on it. Thanks. Steve - I will look at your attach in a bit - thanks.

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

I said Prestolite- might be Autolite....but it has two wires to it- Arm and Field. Thanks

Steve@Advance · Jul 2, 2018

I want to clarify, "most" Prestolites and Autolites are type B.

We need to find out for purposes of polarization and regulator compatibility.

Eagle Beagle · Jul 2, 2018

Could it be that your 6 volt regulator is seeing more voltage from your 8 volt battery and therefore not closing the contacts that are part of the voltage cutout installed in the regulator.

6 volt regs are set to produce 7.2-7.4 volts when operating.

Beagle

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

Beagle - could be...but i need to know how to fix? Thanks

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

Steve- generator is : Autolite GDZ-4804, Shunt Generator. Thanks.

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

Also- Regulator is from Dealer....6V positive ground; thanks.

Eagle Beagle · Jul 2, 2018

Stick a 6 volt battery in it and let us know if things change.

Been thru this with a 420 John Deere with a friend of mine

Beagle

John T · Jul 2, 2018

If its a Class A system, grounding the Gennys FLD post makes it max charge. If its a Class B System, full voltage (NOT ground) on the Gennys FLD makes it max charge. The Class A Field windings terminate out the FLD post where the degree of ground regulates charge rate while on the Class B voltage is applied to the FLD post end and it then terminates at case/frame ground.

I know some Autolite and Prestolite were Class B but I have no idea which you have BUT YOU REALLY NEED TO DETERMINE THAT before you fry something !!!!!!!!!

John T

Eagle Beagle · Jul 2, 2018

I'm sure years ago they made adjustable regs and cutouts. But I'll bet money you will damage your new regulator by trying to

stretch those little springs or bending the contact support before you get the desired results. They make them cheap nowadays.

What truck you got, by the way? Our old Chevys with the 6 volt Positive ground always started in cold Colorado winters.

I'm guessing faster cranking speed is what your after with an eight volt.

Beagle

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

John - I listed excactly below what is is....if you can help- thanks.

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

ok...again, the 8V is in it by request of the owner- Im fixing his truck.(not trying to be rude- but seems I keep repeating things) Starts fine...does not charge, Thanks.

JMOR · Jul 2, 2018

(quoted from post at 15:27:38 07/02/18) ok...again, the 8V is in it by request of the owner- Im fixing his truck.(not trying to be rude- but seems I keep repeating things) Starts fine...does not charge, Thanks.

t looks like that you have a type "A" generator with a type "B" regulator. If so that will never work. In your picture, how are the VR terminals labeled, left(black wire) to right ?

banjoman09 · Jul 2, 2018

Mounted on the fire wall; left to right; Big white(Arm); little white(Field) and black on the right(battery). Not sure how it
could be wrong as it is straight from the dealer for this truck.(1941 Studebaker M-15) Thanks.

Eagle Beagle · Jul 2, 2018

This may help you as it shows further down in the chart your gen # and the VRP6001A regulator with it. Also shows it as being adjustable and furnishes all the specifications for it.

http://www.cj-2a.com/documentation/manuals/motors/generator/generators.pdf

Hope this helps.

Beagle
Untitled URL Link

Steve@Advance · Jul 2, 2018

After carefully rereading your original post, you said "so I jump the battery hot post to Field- now it is hot while running."

Assuming that means you were able to get it to show charge under that condition, that tells me it is a type B generator.

Something to try, with the engine running at fast idle, enough to overcome the cutout relay, 1500 RPM or so, gently assist the spring on the regulator contact that is aligned with the terminal for the field connection. See if that will make it charge. If it will, that means the regulator is correct, and all that will need be done is adjust the spring to compensate for the 8v battery.

Here is some info on Autolite regulators I was looking fr. Note the layout of the terminals is different than yours, but that could be because it's aftermarket.

Wish I was there, sure would make this easier!
Autolite Regulators

banjoman09 · Jul 3, 2018

Yes- wish you could be here also- wouldnt take long I just am not sure of what Im doing; I will study these pages and figure it out today; I went to town and bought a 6V battery - will start from there....hopefully all will work - I will repost when working....again - thanks!

JMOR · Jul 3, 2018

(quoted from post at 11:03:53 07/03/18) Yes- wish you could be here also- wouldnt take long I just am not sure of what Im doing; I will study these pages and figure it out today; I went to town and bought a 6V battery - will start from there....hopefully all will work - I will repost when working....again - thanks!

he fact is, that we do not know what you have for a generator & regulator. You say Prestolite & may be correct (who knows if Studebaker might have used both Autolite & Prestolite that year?). The sheet that I have shows AUTOLITE GDZ-4804A generator & VRP-4004F as VR AND it describes the TYPE-"A" polarization procedure. However, your VR picture is almost without a doubt a TYPE-"B" VR. If you need info on how to be sure if your generator is TYPE-"A" or "B", just ask.

banjoman09 · Jul 3, 2018

I did post the generator number below and pic of regulator and description.....thanks.

JMOR · Jul 3, 2018

(quoted from post at 14:00:07 07/03/18) I did post the generator number below and pic of regulator and description.....thanks.

es, I know, and those two pieces of info are what look to me like incompatible parts.

banjoman09 · Jul 3, 2018

Ok.... the new regulator is "2174" stamped on it....no brand name; Genny is GDZ-4804-A.......which I know is original; maybe I
should put the old regulator back on- thanks..

JMOR · Jul 3, 2018

(quoted from post at 16:17:30 07/03/18) Ok.... the new regulator is "2174" stamped on it....no brand name; Genny is GDZ-4804-A.......which I know is original; maybe I
should put the old regulator back on- thanks..

174 does not tell me anything, but no harm. You don't seem like a fellow with much patience, so if you don't want to do the following, my feelings will not be hurt, but it will not only prove generator is charging, but will very likely tell me whether the pictured regulator has a chance of working with that generator or if you need a different type.
I would disconnect the Field wire to generator (leave VR Fld terminal connected to nothing), at VR disconnect the wire to ARM terminal. Have an observer viewing ammeter & holding throttle at a typically charging engine speed. While running touch the now disconnected ARM wire to the BATT terminal of the VR. What ammeter show? Then holding that BATT to ARM wire connection in place, Touch FIELD wire to Ground (ammeter reading?). Next, same conditions, but touch FIELD wire to BATT ARM connection point (ammeter reading?). Disconnect the temporary BATT to ARM and field connections & shut off engine.

banjoman09 · Jul 3, 2018

Really? No patience? I have been working on this problem for two weeks and still not solved; oh I have patience, but also have a
big hammer that may get used soon! I will try this later this evening- I am alone at my farm so hard to do- give me a few hours
and ill get back. Thanks!

banjoman09 · Jul 3, 2018

The second and third test? Field wire at Genny? or at VR....?

banjoman09 · Jul 3, 2018

And here is the latest test; put old VR back on- (no reason I changed it just because I wanted a new one on there) Same thing; ARM
term not hot on VR; so I jumped it to Batt term on VR; clicks but wont stay shut(points dont stay engaged) so I started truck and
check battery Voltage- 6.9V while running; 6,2 Volts when shut off. And this is with the ARM post dead at VR and Genny! ???

JMOR · Jul 3, 2018

(quoted from post at 18:05:59 07/03/18) The second and third test? Field wire at Genny? or at VR....?

ield wire at VR. It is still connected to generator at other end.

banjoman09 · Jul 4, 2018

I did the first 2 tests; no 1, nothing changed; no 2.; it sparked and the gauge went to the right ...but didnt stay there. Hope
this helps. Thanks.

JMOR · Jul 4, 2018

(quoted from post at 12:21:32 07/04/18) I did the first 2 tests; no 1, nothing changed; no 2.; it sparked and the gauge went to the right ...but didnt stay there. Hope
this helps. Thanks.

....and the third, where you touch field wire to the BATT/ARM pair?

JMOR · Jul 4, 2018

A puzzle is not complete without all the pieces.

banjoman09 · Jul 5, 2018

Yes sir- sorry- I am hauling this truck to the glass shop to finish up the windows this morning- somehow will do the 3rd test this
afternoon and start a new post- thank you.

6V Generator system....

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