TheFordGuy
Member
Does anybody know how to time a New holland 276 baler?
Thanks.
Rase McLean
Ranch Hand
www.blackcoffeeranch.com
Thanks.
Rase McLean
Ranch Hand
www.blackcoffeeranch.com
- Thread starter TheFordGuy
- Start date
Boy oh boy ya really need the book, but from memory the plunger arm needs to be up position between the two dimple dots an the top rail of the baler, all of the dimple dots on the knotter tying gears need to line up at 12 o'clock high. chain can now be placed from the front gear to the knotter gear assembly, keeping all dimple dots in position. That's the best I can remember, but with the baler needle at risk, I would look for the manual online to purchase or print. There is just too much at risk to rely on this old guys memory. gobble
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Book is needed or your will never get it right. If your replacing the chain at any of th places a chain is it need to have the same number of links or you cannot time it
get all the timing marks lined up,simple as that. That said,"buy a book" ASAP. You need it to time,and there is lots more info to make your baler perform at it's best.At less than 40 bucks,the best,cheapest thing you will ever buy for your baler.buy on ebay,NewHolland dealer,JenSales.....Buy a 'paper' book,not an electronic/online book.
I also say get a book ASAP. LOL Also check the number of chain links in each chain. They have to be exactly right or the baler will not stay in time.
The paper books cost around $25. You can also find the manual on line as a PDF file. If you have good internet speed you can down load it ASAP and print the timing pages out to have with you at the baler.
The paper books cost around $25. You can also find the manual on line as a PDF file. If you have good internet speed you can down load it ASAP and print the timing pages out to have with you at the baler.
TheFordGuy
Member
Ok. Thanks guys! this gives us a start. My brother has a book, but he was studying it, and couldn't figure it out. So knowing this, it gives us a start! Thanks! Yeah, dont wanna break needles. Something was wrong with the timing on our JD baler, and my other brother who barely used a baler was tryign to figure it out. Ended up slamming the plunger into the needles, breaking those. So yeah, we dont wanna relive old mistakes. Thanks!
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Can you please explain why number of links need to be the same as original chains? All chains I've been associated with pull on one side of chain & have slack on other side so links between sprockets on pulling side will be the same no matter how many links are in chain. What causes NH sq baler to be different than say a JD sq baler?
Thanks,Jim
Fordfarmer
Well-known Member
That is referring to the big chain that carries one end
of the feeder bar. Changing the number of links
would change where the feeder bar is in its stroke
relative to the drive sprocket each revolution.
of the feeder bar. Changing the number of links
would change where the feeder bar is in its stroke
relative to the drive sprocket each revolution.
TheFordGuy
Member
I honestly have no idea... My brother told me to do some research to find out how to time one. all I know is that the stopper is being activated, causing the sheer bolt to sheer...
Fordfarmer
Well-known Member
The stopper, or needle safety latch, will shear the bolt any time the needles are out of the "home" position when the plunger moves
rearward past a certain point. If nothing has changed the timing, your problem may be the brake that holds the needle arm in the
home position. If it's too loose, the rocking and vibration of running can allow it to slip enough to move the safety latch in.
There's a small bolt with a spring on it for adjustment. (here again, the book would be very helpful to have)
rearward past a certain point. If nothing has changed the timing, your problem may be the brake that holds the needle arm in the
home position. If it's too loose, the rocking and vibration of running can allow it to slip enough to move the safety latch in.
There's a small bolt with a spring on it for adjustment. (here again, the book would be very helpful to have)
TX Jim: All square balers require the chains that drive the knotters and stuffer arms to be a set number of links long. I know you worked on wire tie balers more than twine and I have never worked on a wire tie baler. So they might be different.
Lets assume the chain in question has 25 links. So you take out one link and put in a half link so now the chain is 24 links long. The chain is now 4% shorter. Now this chain is running between two sprockets that have to stay in time, like the stuffer arms in a JD 24T or the stuffer bar on a NH 276. With the shorter chain running between the sprockets they will get 4% out of time every full revolution of the chain. Yes the pull side will always stay the same. It is the slack side that causes the trouble. Most chains that have to stay in time have plenty of slack in them for an adjuster to take up. So with the chain being one link shorter the sprockets will slowly get out of time because of the ratio of the pull side compared to the slack side has to match the ratio between the two sprockets. Think about this and it will come to you.
I have seen lots of guys take links out of the chains on balers and damage the needles, knotters and feeders arms/racks.
Nh balers use a long chain to drive the knotters where JD uses a drive shaft and gear box. That long chain has to be the correct length or the plunger with hit the needles when it gets out of time.
A JD balers will do the same thing. If you put a chain too long or short on the knotter drive in a 14T baler it will get out of time in less than a minute or two and hit the plunger stop or needles.
Lets assume the chain in question has 25 links. So you take out one link and put in a half link so now the chain is 24 links long. The chain is now 4% shorter. Now this chain is running between two sprockets that have to stay in time, like the stuffer arms in a JD 24T or the stuffer bar on a NH 276. With the shorter chain running between the sprockets they will get 4% out of time every full revolution of the chain. Yes the pull side will always stay the same. It is the slack side that causes the trouble. Most chains that have to stay in time have plenty of slack in them for an adjuster to take up. So with the chain being one link shorter the sprockets will slowly get out of time because of the ratio of the pull side compared to the slack side has to match the ratio between the two sprockets. Think about this and it will come to you.
I have seen lots of guys take links out of the chains on balers and damage the needles, knotters and feeders arms/racks.
Nh balers use a long chain to drive the knotters where JD uses a drive shaft and gear box. That long chain has to be the correct length or the plunger with hit the needles when it gets out of time.
A JD balers will do the same thing. If you put a chain too long or short on the knotter drive in a 14T baler it will get out of time in less than a minute or two and hit the plunger stop or needles.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
JD Seller
Thanks for explanation but I'm having a difficult time understanding if the number of links between the drive & driven sprocket are the same no matter how long the chain is how can length of chain alter the timing. I can envision how chain length on NH knotter drive is important because of the 3 sprocket configuration IE no idler sprocket involved. I guess I can't see the forest for the trees on the 2 sprocket with idler type setup.
Jim
showcrop
Well-known Member
Tx Jim, I have to agree with you. In preparation for this season I was going through all of the adjustments on my MF 224 baler. When setting the knotter drive, the instructions tell you to take the chain off the idler but also to put the drive wheel tight up against the cam. This effectively takes all of the chain on the slack side out of the picture, while making sure that the drive between the plunger head and the needles has no slack.
Tx JIm I know I am doing a poor job of explain this. I just know form working on JD and NH balers for years that IF you do not have the correct number of links in the chains that drive/time the knotter drive system, that the baler will grenade itself.
One of the most common failures on the older JD balers was when guys would get a loose chain and take out a link and put in a half link. BOOM either the needles or stuffer arm would get hammered as the majority never check and make sure the plunger stop works.
One of the most common failures on the older JD balers was when guys would get a loose chain and take out a link and put in a half link. BOOM either the needles or stuffer arm would get hammered as the majority never check and make sure the plunger stop works.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
JD Seller
I asked this same question on another forum I frequent called Hay Talk. A member that's been associated with a NH dealership since '72(46 yrs) in all departments & is very knowledgeable on NH hay equipment stated if chain has an idler then number of links(more or less)doesn't change the timing. I agree with his statement. I think that this is true with frt drive chain & feeder chain on all JD sq balers from model 336-348. IIRC the needle lift chain on JD 224 can be altered but it's been many,many yrs since I've put my hands on a JD 224 sq baler
My knowledge of NH sq balers is very limited so I'm not including many chains on them just the chains with idlers.
Jim
I believe the problem with chains getting out of time comes not from the number of links used, (that makes no sense to me no matter how many times it's explained) but from chains stretching and people trying to take up the slack by removing links. I think that's what gives the impression that the number of links has to remain constant.
Thoughts?
fixerupper
Well-known Member
Jim the only thing I can think of concerning the amount of links is maybe you shouldn’t put a half link in the chain. But doesn’t it use 2050 chain? I’m accustomed to working with an old 67 so chain style might have been changed through the years.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
JD Seller
It's been yrs since I laid my hands on a JD 14T or 24 BUT I still think that number of links in a chain that utilizes a idler such as feeder finger chain to remove slack doesn't affect timing.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
Actually there's no such thing as a "half link" it's official name is "offset link".
IMHO offset link wouldn't affect timing on a chain that utilizes an idler to remove slack because the number of links between the drive & driven sprocket no matter how many links are in chain.
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