pump shop rip off

Couple of days ago a post was about prices charged at pump shops. Monday a fella called me about a Roosa pump off a Oliver 550. He took it to a local pump shop because the drive had sheared. They told him 1500 bucks! He sent me the pump hoping for some relief. First thing I noticed was the pump still had the safety wire and red paint stick markings. This means it was never disassembled. I pulled it down to find a broken leaf spring and bad drive shaft. Pump had been updated to the solid weight assembly, new pilot tube, and metering valve. The head was fine. 610 denarrows and this guy is back up and running, shipping included. How could these pump guys sleep at night or look themselves in the mirror after that? They told him this pump was torn down, then put back together unrepairable. Charge him for that. Then tell him it will cost 1500 to replace it. Doing business like that gives pump shops a bad name. No wonder some guys hesitate if they have pump trouble. Al

Better than the time they told me $450 to reseal one and it ended up $1700!

I sent a pump and injectors to a big rebuilding place at Indianapolis. I have a bench tester for injectors. When i got them back all 4 injectors tested bad. I called the rebuilder and was told all they could do was clean them because they couldn't get repair parts.I sent them to a place in iowa and they tested good when i got them back.I installed the pump and the tractor started hard,smoked and loped when it idled.The tractor sat over the winter and wouldn't start in the spring.I sent the pump to iowa and another 500 bucks later I got a good pump back. The tractor starts right up, no smoke and idles very well.

Like the old Cat says on the fuel cap buy clean fuel and keep it clean. I don't remember ever having an injection pump off for more than to fix the oil leak on a B model cat where the o-ring leaked at the block.
I don't even lay the fuel nozzle on the ground. to move or fill the other side on my semi's. I put it across the frame rails.

Good information and story.......While talking about pumps, what should a reseal job cost? (Ford 2600) Runs like a top, but leaks.

Neighbor just had one rebuilt for $375.(Texas) Same pump. Would not run but I don't know what they did.

Same question, reseal a CAV DPA?

I have a good pump shop 2 miles away, The last DPA I took them for a reseal came back fully rebuilt at $600. A the time I could have bought a new old stock pump off ebay for $400.

I know quality costs money, but at the same time the parts are cheap, and I know what they pay their help.

Fellow who does mine removes, repairs and re-installs for about $500. Hope he makes a living but hope he does not plan an overseas vacation every year. I am pleased with the performance when he finishes. He comes from a good hard working family. Is this about right?

It's like most everything now days Al. There's a "book price" for everything and that's what you pay.

A couple years ago I took a 4440 pump to a shop in Columbus Ohio,, they said it was junk from contaminated fuel,, I knew the fuel supply was good and clean, so they wanted $1700 to exchange it with a re-man..I told them no and wanted it back,,they said it's torn down...I said I don't care and went to get it... when they brought it out to the counter it was assembled..and I could clearly tell it was never torn down..I started to get ready to kick trash cans but walked out and never returned again...I use International Fuel Systems near Finley Ohio now and am very satisfied with their work,,2 big pumps there now..

Son has a super MD and the pump was leaking at the throttle shaft, had a local mechanic come out and take it off he sent it away came back he put it on bill $1800.00, said every thing inside was wore out, Tractor ran fine and switched over good, I think he got hosed.

Pete

That whole story sounds about right at 2 out of 3 pump shops in this area of Canada especially if you are English or other foreigner . The 3rd guy is a fellow Englishman thats been here years and has lucas CAV factory experience. If it's for an old antique or classic tractor thats not urgent he does better shop deals if you can wait.

You also get the truth on anything you take there and know the English and other stuff's right too. The others just tell you leave a blank check and we'll fill it in and cash it before you get the pump back. I told them I needed to know before or i was gonna scrap the tractor depending on cost. In the end my reply finished with something " Off" if they thought I was giving them a blank check to fill in. the 3rd guys busy I wonder why L.O.L
Regards Robert

The rant below about the dealer restocking charge and now this. Sounds like every occupation is finally catching up with the doctors and lawyers! Is that so bad??

A few years ago we used bio-diesel in some tractors. Next spring my 1030 Case and the son's 930 had the rack in the pumps stuck. Local pump shop wanted $1500 a piece to clean the pumps. I had a old pump and took it apart to see how every thing worked. Took both pumps off and apart and cleaned them up.Cleaned the tanks and new filters and got them both running. Saved $3000. Still work good today.

The best repair cost estimate can only be made after the pump is apart and cleaned up. Sounds like that was not done. I have a CAV DPA in now, owner claims it runs fine, just leaks all over. On tear down found the cam ring has a lobe beginning to fail, so one is on order. I've never been a fan of exchange pumps, would rather repair the original if at all possible..

There is not a Fair shop in Louisville Ky ,,.All them probably own yachts and a country club too,,. All my stuff goes to seymour indiana. Jeff at Interstate Injection has always Been Fair and Strait up withme All My Pals I have taken to him to fix up.

Most any reseal job should be able to be done for 350-450 bucks. Each guy charges different, but there is a HOUGE spread from the little guys just trying to carve out a living and the ones trying to send their kids to private schools in the Caribbean. When asked I always tell people to be careful of the really expensive, or really cheap shops. Time and parts cost money, but not every part is junk. In fact most pumps only need resealed , or just a part or two. 15-18 hundred dollar repair bills are crazy! Some of these shops are trying to clear 2-3 hundred dollars an hour for actual work done. Never seen a farmer do this even in the best years. Al

Injection shops in my area of VA will be $1000 just to drop off no matter what then it goes up from there.

I sent the pump for my 901 Ford to an on line cut rate shop maybe four years ago. The tractor was hard starting and would not start when hot. After the $240 rebuild it was no better. When I called him the guy said that it needed a new head. Early spring last year I took it to the local shop that I knew charged around $700.00. Since installing it the tractor always starts easily, and has noticeably more power. The shop does not make a killing, I see the guy getting a fair price for his work which everyone should get, especially anyone who takes the chance of going into debt to start out.

The shops probably quote realistically to weed out the customers who won't pay for expensive repairs and just leave their rebuilt pumps at the shop. The shop stands a good chance of footing the bill when they under quote the cost to repair those forty to sixty year old pumps.

The pump shops are equipped to put the incoming pumps on a test machine to diagnose the problems before they start any disassembly. That testing and diagnosis takes time and is not free.

Inj. pump shops have always been a rip off. VERY hard to find an honest one that does good work for a reasonable price.

The diesel industry moved on to electronic fuel injection, that was around twenty or twenty five years ago now. Maybe there's a huge opportunity for someone who wants to open a new injection pump shop that only works on mechanical injection systems at reasonable prices?

YEp , Pump shops sure do like to HOSE you , been down this route way tomany times . My first lesson on and injection pump was my first tractor . I had bought a Farmall 450 D many years back that had a miss , fart and a back fire issue , yep diesels can back fire . Not knowing the I H diesel vary well at the time i had the area's best I H mechanic come out one Saturday afternoon to help me find the problem . Well he fiddled with it and came to the conclusion that i had a cracked head . You could not tell anything about the head as the valve cove was leaking really bad in all four corners . So the head camed off and off to a machine shop that i used for many of the let's go fast engines . Once they took the steam cleaner to it even before they hot tanked it thy found a brand new head but they did and old fashioned pressure check and found no cracks but they did touch up all valves . So after getting it baqck together and running it still missed, farted and back fired . So onto the injectors and they checked out good . So that left the pump and off to the pump shop . Dropped the pump[ off and Fat Dave called me telling me how bad the pump was and it needed this and that and we were looking at 650 bucks in 1969 money . Well come Friday morning i called FAT Dave and asked if the pump was done and he told me that it was going to be no less then two weeks before he got all the parts. Told him that i needed that pump by Five and was coming after it . I got there about five till and he started well it's apart , told him well them put it back together as it was somewhat running when i brought it in and i need the tractor this weekend . I was a tad hot under the collar . He goes back in the back and in about ten min. he comes out with the pump and it was NOT tore down and still as dirty as it was when i brought it in . I don't like being lied to . Took the pump back to the fqarm and put it back on and ran the tractor . Sunday evening i took the pump back off and was going to take it back to him on Monday morning . As i was headed for his shop i was coming up on the local I H industrial dealer and pulled in and went inside and i qasked the girl at the main desk if they had a pump man and she said yes and to go into the back and see Cal. I had the pump in hand when i walked into his Cave and he was setting on his stool running a pump on the stand . he stopped what he was doing and took the pump looked at it whipped off the tag and pointed to a YELLOW pump setting on the shelf . I asked HOW MUCH and he said Don't know . Well hiow am i suppose to PAY for it if you DON'T Know . He said what ever it takes to fix your pump is what that one cost . Ok but that one is YELLOW and mine is RED and goes on a FARM tractor . He then tells me that OH NO your pump is off a T D 14 but it will work on the D 281 . I asked him if he could just fix mine as the pain would match when i put it back on and nobody will get upset at the tractor pulls and clam i was cheating . Cal said Ok i will fix yours and make it even better , I.ll call ya when i am done . So i go on to work and figured that he would call in a couple days . WRONG at 11:45 he calls me and said your pump is done , i about fell on the floor , ok HOW much and call said ya owe me 112,78 . Now keep in mind here Fat Dave told me 650 and two weeks to get the parts . As he told me that the Plunger was shot and the cam was toast and all the seals . what cal replaced was the Cam bushings that were shot because of fuel leaking into the crank case due to bad seals on the fuel pump plus the work he did on the gov. as he changed the fly weights to loader weights ground out the case for the rack to move back more and also to get more RPM's took the time to mark the screws for different settings of fuel , First mark was for STOCK setting second mark was for a WEEEEEE bit more then Stock setting and the Third mark was for lets clear out every skeeter in two countys . and made peck marks for RPM settings . I have come now to use just one guy but like he said prices have gone up for him and IF you need a head it will hurt and there will be no more 250 to 500 dollar rebuilds anymore . I looked into setting up a GOOD pump shop many years back and to do this even back then buy the time you get set up for a one horse operation you would be looking at a quarter Mil. Pump stands are not cheap plus all the accessory that are needed and if you want to do pulling pumps the run of the mill stands will not do them . I know what the guy i use has tied up in his new shop he built thirty years ago and what he gave for his new stand .

That's one thing I WON'T do, test a pump "as received". Engines can be a good "test bench" too, IF you know what to look for. Any pump that's suspect gets torn down. I WILL NOT risk damage to my test equipment from any pump that might have internal damage/metal shavings floating around inside. That's why I always ask, WHY did you remove the pump, and HOW does it start when hot after setting five minutes. Pumps CAN be expensive, depending what's bad, and test bench parts are even higher..