- Thread starter SVcummins
- Start date
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Ford made a tricycle up untill 1975.
They were needed for mounted corn pickers. Also my family liked them for their manuverability. They can practically turn on a dime. The last one they bought new with a narrow front was a John Deere 4320. Had an uncle order a 4230 with a narrow front, but that was just for tractor pulling.
Phil in Pa
Member
A neighbor I worked for in the early 80's had a turbo 5000 I spent a lot of time on. I think he still has it doing part time duty.
When changing wheel width you only needed to move the rear wheels on a tractor with narrow front. If you have a front tire go flat on a wide front you have to fix the tire before you can move the tractor. A tire goes flat on a narrow front you can still use the tractor until you get time to fix the flat. Sometimes you can drive a narrow front tractor all summer before you notice one is out of air.
tomstractorsandtoys
Well-known Member
There were also a few 4040's that left the factory narrow front. They went to vegetable growing areas. The Allis 190, Massey 1100 and 1130, Ford 8600-9600, IH 766-966-1066 and there were just a few 86 series narrow fronts. I spent a few hours chopping on a friends 4320 narrow front and liked it.I have a 4020,4010,2 3020's and a 2510 all narrow fronts. Tom
Roger in Iowa
Well-known Member
If you have a ROM you will know it is flat.
I'm more struck by the platform on that 4040. I bought mine new and it was open station. I had the dealer install a SGB in 93. My open platform didn't look like that. It didn't step up like that behind the battery box. The covers were square ended and were just flat with the platform. That one looks like it had a canopy and it was removed.
FARMALL built batches of 5 or 10 NFE tractors about once a year. The entire front bolster casting was different, special casting, special machining, special tire and wheel equipment too. Last batch built in 1981. I don't know if they built any NFE 3X88's but you could install the 86-series wet bolster and build your own.
I always preferred NFE, BTO neighbor I worked for always kept an open station NFE 4020-D, last one he has was a '69 Side Console. Was actually my favorite tractor after the Air Conditioning died in his 4320 with factory ROPS cab.
Dad only had 2 WFE tractors, everything else,8 tractors were NFE, the JD R diesel was WFE of course, and the 4010-D, The R was short-lived, Road Commisioner talked Dad into selling it to the township, where it's weak PTO failed ever year for 3 years and they dumped it, 4010 was O-K to run, when it was running right, but was a money pit!
I always preferred NFE, BTO neighbor I worked for always kept an open station NFE 4020-D, last one he has was a '69 Side Console. Was actually my favorite tractor after the Air Conditioning died in his 4320 with factory ROPS cab.
Dad only had 2 WFE tractors, everything else,8 tractors were NFE, the JD R diesel was WFE of course, and the 4010-D, The R was short-lived, Road Commisioner talked Dad into selling it to the township, where it's weak PTO failed ever year for 3 years and they dumped it, 4010 was O-K to run, when it was running right, but was a money pit!
Funny how people think of them. I myself don't like the looks of NFE. I think it looks wimpy. IMO looks really bad on anything bigger than a Farmall H or JD B. And you take anything new enough to have power brakes WFE/NFE will turn just as sharply with one brake locked up.
Now I know some people are going to yell about safety. Couple of AG engineering courses at several colleges did studies on the roll over effect of a NF tractor. They found that that the ONLY operation where a WFE was less prone to roll was going downhill with a load behind pushing the tractor. So in my neck of the woods where a lot of people rolled tractors at one time or another with most of em "back then" were guys picking corn with a towed picking and wagon, chopping corn baling hay, pulling a towed combine and pulling loaded grain wagons. Around here you are either going uphill or down. And when people saw far more NF tractors rolling they, using reason, figured it was the NF. They didn't think about how it was being used when it rolled.
Rick
Now I know some people are going to yell about safety. Couple of AG engineering courses at several colleges did studies on the roll over effect of a NF tractor. They found that that the ONLY operation where a WFE was less prone to roll was going downhill with a load behind pushing the tractor. So in my neck of the woods where a lot of people rolled tractors at one time or another with most of em "back then" were guys picking corn with a towed picking and wagon, chopping corn baling hay, pulling a towed combine and pulling loaded grain wagons. Around here you are either going uphill or down. And when people saw far more NF tractors rolling they, using reason, figured it was the NF. They didn't think about how it was being used when it rolled.
Rick
Rich'sToys
Well-known Member
- Location
- Southern MN
Another reason narrow fronts were prevalent back in the day is that cultivators back then were all front mounted.
I've seen a few front mounted cultivators on wide front tractors, but it had to have been a major undertaking to put them on and off!
Of course, now days no one cultivates at all!
I've seen a few front mounted cultivators on wide front tractors, but it had to have been a major undertaking to put them on and off!
Of course, now days no one cultivates at all!
Dad had an AT40 JD cultivator for the 4020 WFE, easiest cult to put on. 4 Bolts for the front mount, drive up put two square clamps from mount to front toolbar, hook up the hoses raise the cult and swing around, put the two cone/point mounts on put the cult to the frame two more bolts and attach the end rods and it was on. Night and day different from the T40 for the 630 NF. Between Dad and my brother we could take off the 148 loader and mount the AT40 to the 4020 quicker than putting on the T40 to the 630. Dad also had the front rockshaft for the 630 to do pointed rows, hyd on the left side rockshaft for the right, we only had single hydraulics on the 630.
Eldon (WA)
Well-known Member
Yeah, no way I would brush hog ditches or hillsides with a nf tractor....you are just asking for trouble. Plus I like the idea the cheaper tire leads the way....
Brendon-KS
Well-known Member
- Location
- Goessel, KS
I'd like to read the reports from those studies to understand how they arrived at that their
conclusion. This in direct conflict with the research project I was involved with during my ag
engineering schooling.
conclusion. This in direct conflict with the research project I was involved with during my ag
engineering schooling.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Brendon, It is really quite simple. As you know you front axle pivots at the center, and it is a fair amount, around 15 degrees. When you are on a sidehill, if something causes your tractor to suddenly lean more steeply, your chassis has to travel that amount of rotation on the pivot before the stop engages. it may, or may not catch you. Wide fronts are more stable on sidehills but not by as much as is commonly thought. The best defense against sidehill upset, other than selling the tractor, is to lower the center of gravity. The best way to lower the center of gravity is with fluid in the tires, most of it being below the tire center.
Brendon-KS
Well-known Member
- Location
- Goessel, KS
In our studies we defined a complete loss of stability as when one rear tire became unloaded - at
this point the tractor is balanced about its "tipping axis". The width of the front axle never
comes into play. The key is the height at which the tractor pivots at the front end. With a
narrow front this point is at ground level while on a wide front it is elevated by up to several
feet. This raised tipping point means that the WFE tractor has to lean over farther for the
center of gravity to cross over the tipping axis. A similar situation occurs when turning a
corner at higher speeds. The centrifugal force acting horizontally at the center of gravity is
closer to the tipping axis which means it is applying less moment to unload the inside tire. The
WFE vs NFE stability differences are more pronounced the farther forward and upward the center of
gravity is located, such as with a loader. As you say, the best defense is to lower the
tractor's CG and also have the rear tread width set as wide as possible.
this point the tractor is balanced about its "tipping axis". The width of the front axle never
comes into play. The key is the height at which the tractor pivots at the front end. With a
narrow front this point is at ground level while on a wide front it is elevated by up to several
feet. This raised tipping point means that the WFE tractor has to lean over farther for the
center of gravity to cross over the tipping axis. A similar situation occurs when turning a
corner at higher speeds. The centrifugal force acting horizontally at the center of gravity is
closer to the tipping axis which means it is applying less moment to unload the inside tire. The
WFE vs NFE stability differences are more pronounced the farther forward and upward the center of
gravity is located, such as with a loader. As you say, the best defense is to lower the
tractor's CG and also have the rear tread width set as wide as possible.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
I've run NF tractors on steep land all my life the key is where the center of gravity is on a tractor not the front end type.A NF C Allis Chalmers is way more stable on a hill than its 'brother' WF tractor the B because the C is wider.I'll take my NF AC D15 on hills I wouldn't take some WF tractors I own.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Well yeah, when you're comparing apples to hand grenades; the apples taste much better and the hand grenades hurt a lot more.
It's silly to compare a WF tractor set as narrow as possible, and a NF tractor with the rear wheels set out to maximum width, and proclaim NF tractors are "safer."
You can set the WF tractors out that wide too and they'd be just as stable and safe, and they'd ride better too due to the oscillating front axle.
It's silly to compare a WF tractor set as narrow as possible, and a NF tractor with the rear wheels set out to maximum width, and proclaim NF tractors are "safer."
You can set the WF tractors out that wide too and they'd be just as stable and safe, and they'd ride better too due to the oscillating front axle.
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