- Thread starter ihcarl66
- Start date
Elton Fancher
Member
Many areas, I think the state of Indiana for instance, have changed the rules of the game. Utility companies co longer have to pay you for whatever extra you produce. I would look into state and local rules about that, but being able to produce enough for yourself would be great if the cost does not prohibit it.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
They are just trying to sell the solar panels. The only way it makes any sense at all is IF you are OFF the grid and cannot get electricity any other way.
It can work, but it depends on your state rules on how or if electricity can be sold back. As well it is relying upon about 1/3 the cost being subsidized by tax subsidies, if it matters where your money is coming from.
Many places you get paid wholesale electric rates, need a different meter that reads backwards flow and you get mich less than you pay for electricity. There is a lot of overhead on the paperwork and meter installation and so forth. It quickly makes the electricity worth very little.
Some places have unusual billing/ buying policies that the whole years worth of production gets averaged out and you end up giving them a lot of free electricity, no payment for it because of the paperwork and calander games.
So you need to do a lot of checking.
Paul
Many places you get paid wholesale electric rates, need a different meter that reads backwards flow and you get mich less than you pay for electricity. There is a lot of overhead on the paperwork and meter installation and so forth. It quickly makes the electricity worth very little.
Some places have unusual billing/ buying policies that the whole years worth of production gets averaged out and you end up giving them a lot of free electricity, no payment for it because of the paperwork and calander games.
So you need to do a lot of checking.
Paul
There's a darn good chance THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO SELL PANELS.
FIRST of all some utility providers DONT EVEN ALLOW GRID TIE SYSTEMS. If not then your not tied to the grid whereby you can "sell" Yeah Right energy to the utility at all.
SECOND some utility providers changed to a Net Metering system in which case even if you were 1) Grid Tied and 2) Had enough capacity to ever sell anything back (don't hold your breath) its at a much lower wholesale price.
If you cant or dont grid tie and want to save up and store energy during the peak sun times for later use, then you need expensive battery bank energy storage and big enough Inverter and solar charge controllers etc etc etc NOT CHEAP !!!!
NOTE if you grid tie then you dont need all that expensive battery and inverter and storage system. You simply get energy from your solar if and when its producing enough but when not you buy energy from the provider............
However, as an engineer I'm all for alternate and sustainable energy and energy saving such as but not limited to, Earth Sheltering, Super Insulation, Wind, Solar, Water, IF ITS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE WITHOUT TAXPAYER SUBSIDIES ..........
That being said and REGARDLESS of actual investment payback, (be it a year or 10 years or never) ITS STILL A PERSONS FREE CHOICE IF HE WISHES TO INVEST IN ALTERNATE ENERGY OR NOT. It don't matter what Billy Bob or Bubba here choose or can justify or not justify if a person FOR WHATEVER REASONS OR NONE AT ALL wants to build his own energy system and get off the grid REGARDLESS if it pays back or not, MORE POWER TO HIM.
There are many locations where electrical service isn't available so theres a good place for a home energy system.
HOWEVER alternate energy IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. If a person cant afford to build and maintain it and isn't happy with the investment payback (if theres any at all or its 20 years or even never) THEY BEST STAY ON THE PUBLIC UTILITY.
John T Long retired Electrical Engineer and Solar user myself, but NOT any solar expert so no warranty !!!! Use it if you like (With or Without economic or any justification) or NOT if you so choose TO EACH THEIR OWN LIFES DECISIONS
FIRST of all some utility providers DONT EVEN ALLOW GRID TIE SYSTEMS. If not then your not tied to the grid whereby you can "sell" Yeah Right energy to the utility at all.
SECOND some utility providers changed to a Net Metering system in which case even if you were 1) Grid Tied and 2) Had enough capacity to ever sell anything back (don't hold your breath) its at a much lower wholesale price.
If you cant or dont grid tie and want to save up and store energy during the peak sun times for later use, then you need expensive battery bank energy storage and big enough Inverter and solar charge controllers etc etc etc NOT CHEAP !!!!
NOTE if you grid tie then you dont need all that expensive battery and inverter and storage system. You simply get energy from your solar if and when its producing enough but when not you buy energy from the provider............
However, as an engineer I'm all for alternate and sustainable energy and energy saving such as but not limited to, Earth Sheltering, Super Insulation, Wind, Solar, Water, IF ITS ECONOMICALLY FEASIBLE WITHOUT TAXPAYER SUBSIDIES ..........
That being said and REGARDLESS of actual investment payback, (be it a year or 10 years or never) ITS STILL A PERSONS FREE CHOICE IF HE WISHES TO INVEST IN ALTERNATE ENERGY OR NOT. It don't matter what Billy Bob or Bubba here choose or can justify or not justify if a person FOR WHATEVER REASONS OR NONE AT ALL wants to build his own energy system and get off the grid REGARDLESS if it pays back or not, MORE POWER TO HIM.
There are many locations where electrical service isn't available so theres a good place for a home energy system.
HOWEVER alternate energy IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. If a person cant afford to build and maintain it and isn't happy with the investment payback (if theres any at all or its 20 years or even never) THEY BEST STAY ON THE PUBLIC UTILITY.
John T Long retired Electrical Engineer and Solar user myself, but NOT any solar expert so no warranty !!!! Use it if you like (With or Without economic or any justification) or NOT if you so choose TO EACH THEIR OWN LIFES DECISIONS
Dan in North Houston
Member
I bought a solar panel in a "solar farm" that the utility has at the local landfill. I own the panel and get a credit on my bill. I get about a $4/month credit and at that rate, it will take about 17 years for it to pay for itself.
I knew it would be a lousy deal, but it has actually saved me a lot of money. I bought it to prove to my wife why we're not going to spend a lot more money to put solar panels on the barn.
I knew it would be a lousy deal, but it has actually saved me a lot of money. I bought it to prove to my wife why we're not going to spend a lot more money to put solar panels on the barn.
Crazy Horse
Well-known Member
JDEH ...... yes, there was a question there in the original post, some have responded to it. It was just missing a question mark at the very end of the last sentence. Read it again, you'll see it.
Look into what you pay for electricity (retail $0.08 to $.13 per KwHr?), what you will receive for the electricity you produce (wholesale $.02 to $.04 per KwHr?), also what time of day you consume electricity vrs what time of day you produce it. Try to match your production to your consumption. If you can produce at the same time you consume, you can reduce the amount of electricity you need to buy at full retail price. If you consume at night and only produce during the day you might still be paying retail price for most of what you use and only receive wholesale for most of what you produce and sell. Would a wind generator be a better option?
Not quite a "free choice" as to whether we want to invest in alternate energy. Here in western Washington, power companies are forced to buy at least 10% "renewable" energy at a higher cost than our normal power. But why do we have to buy solar and wind energy, when we have virtually all hydro power, which is the most renewable of all? After all, the rivers keep flowing, whether the sun is out or its windy or not. The answer is, the powers that be simply left hydro out of the definition of renewable energy, because it did not further their agenda. I shouldn't complain, as the new requirement pushed our cost to over 5 cents a KW, which is still a heckuva deal compared to other parts of the country- its just the idea that the politicians can simply ignore reality and define things any way they want to.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I looked into do solar at one time but by the time I had the system in place and the extra it would cost for insurance etc. I found it would be a great big loss of $$ in the long run as in it would never pay for it self let alone make any $$
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
There are a lot of variables, depending on where you live, and the agreement with your utility. Also, do you get much lasting snow? If they have very much snow on them they don't produce very well. If you live in the south and use your AC a lot it's more feasible. If I was younger I would seriously look into it.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
WITHOUT TAXPAYER SUBSIDIES. You said a mouthful right there.
I understand how you feel, but I have to agree with the MN legislature on that one. They may have gone overboard with paying the full retail rate, but paying only wholesale for power already at the end of the grid on the consumer's door step is a rip-off. We wasted a lot more money on the ethanol subsidies.
I was going to suggest, most new power sources need some initial stability to establish and get to an equal footing to the long established and susidised old sources.
I was going to suggest ethanol as a good example, they had a 10 cents a gallon subsidy for 20 years, and then it ended.
Wind energy and pkotovoltics doesn't have a good payoff, not a good future. They need a 1/3 cost subsidy today still, and then an ongoing subsidy of retail price support for a wholesale product?
I'm good with that if it's a 10 year deal and phase out over the next decade or two.
But I'm not seeing the phaseout, or how wind and photovoltaic is close to real wholesale electric costs, or a path to get an installation close to those costs?
Ethanol worked. The modest subsidy provided seed money and made lenders comfortable extending start up loans, and through time the process proved itself to be viable on its own. That is a success story.
Solar is mighty questionable? Sure sucks to need a 30-40% govt subsidy for your numbers to work.
I'm not against solar. But it needs better numbers than what we have to be sustainable?
Paul
I was going to suggest ethanol as a good example, they had a 10 cents a gallon subsidy for 20 years, and then it ended.
Wind energy and pkotovoltics doesn't have a good payoff, not a good future. They need a 1/3 cost subsidy today still, and then an ongoing subsidy of retail price support for a wholesale product?
I'm good with that if it's a 10 year deal and phase out over the next decade or two.
But I'm not seeing the phaseout, or how wind and photovoltaic is close to real wholesale electric costs, or a path to get an installation close to those costs?
Ethanol worked. The modest subsidy provided seed money and made lenders comfortable extending start up loans, and through time the process proved itself to be viable on its own. That is a success story.
Solar is mighty questionable? Sure sucks to need a 30-40% govt subsidy for your numbers to work.
I'm not against solar. But it needs better numbers than what we have to be sustainable?
Paul
Brendon-KS
Well-known Member
- Location
- Goessel, KS
This past weekend we were at my sister and BIL's place in western Illinois and they just installed a solar system. They said that the cost is subsidized at 70% by the local power company. They don't get paid for the produced electricity that they don't use (which goes into the grid) which kind of makes sense if the power company is footing most of the bill. Apparently the power company must be thinking that if they can get enough of these systems out there that it will pay off in the long run. The system has an automatic cut-out that in the event of a power failure it shuts off the solar so it doesn't backfeed the lines and electrocute a lineman. Should this happen the solar is completely cut off, even from their use, so it cannot be used to "live off the grid". It's not on line yet - the power company needs to do a final inspection yet - so they don't have any real-world data on what it will actually do.
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy