F350 Starting Problems

Hello.

I have a 2004 F350 Diesel that has been giving me some problems in the winter. I have a 9'2" Boss V-Plow that I use with it, and from what I can tell the problems occur when I plow.

I bought the truck new and the plow within the next year. I used it for I want to say 10 years before I started having problems the last few years. The truck would have a hard time starting anywhere below 20 Fahrenheit unless I had the block heater plugged in and when I would plow the radio would act up; the volume would lower when I would lift the plow for example. Also, the dash lights would dim when I would lift the plow, or basically use the hydraulics on the plow.

This past August I put two new batteries in, almost 13 years after I got the truck. I figured that would fix my problems, but the truck has been acting up again the last couple weeks as the snow has been piling up.

We had 15 below two nights ago, and the truck started the next morning fairly easily. The block heater was used and I had not plowed the day before. I plowed yesterday for 30-45 minutes, and was really going pretty slow since I had two dogs in truck. Toward the end of plowing yesterday I noticed the radio acting up again, so when I was done I took a quick 5 mile spin hoping that would help the batteries. Last night we had 10 below and the truck would not go this morning, and I had the block heater going again.

I have been trying to figure this out for awhile. I jumped the truck one day when it wouldn't start and I ran around doing things for almost an hour, the truck was running the whole time. Just to see where the batteries were at I tried to start the truck right after I shut it down and it started right up like it was new. I realize it was warmed up and all, but I figured maybe the alternator got the batteries back up to where they should be and that made me think the alternator is not the problem.

But now as I go on year 13 or so with new batteries and realize I never had problems like this until a few years ago I am wondering if my alternator is not doing the job like it should. When they go do they go slowly or completely all of a sudden?

Anyway, any help is appreciated. I get the best advice from the people on this site and am very thankful.

What does your meter say when running at high idle?

With the lights on heater on and the truck at idle what is the voltage across the battery? 14 would be the least I would expect. If above Idle, I would expect 14.2 to 14.6 volts. If less, what is the condition of the fan belt. A belt can slip with no noise if the grooves in the belt are worn to the point they are riding in the bottom of the pulley grooves, the belt is toast. There are small plastic probes used to measure the gap in the pulley groove with the belt in place. Check the belt first. Even a tight worn belt will slip. Jim

I agree about testing voltage while everything is on,or drive by parts house for free alt test. Modern engines are heavly dependent on electronics and that's twice as true for the 6.0 Ford. Ford owners in the know increase battery cable size and add redundant ground wires/cables between body,frame and engine block. This not only avoid's electric grimilins,it is critical to have good voltage on that engine to avoid failures on FICM,PCM and injectors. Dielectric grease help's keep connections in shape after they are clean. Being in snow country,I highly recommend cleaning plug connectors with DeOxit D-5 and DeOxit Shield.

May I make a suggestion. Go on Ebay and look up this item. It is a digital meter that plugs right into your cigarette lighter. I have several of them plugged into everything. You can leave it there all of the time. When I have checked this with my $300.oo meter they were only 2 100th of a volt apart. That is very good. This way you can monitor you electrical system and every move it makes. Item number is 252559219878. Take a week or so to get it. Worth every penny.

Check your power distribution box under the hood. Sometimes they get moisture in them. The moisture could be allowing current to leak to ground.

I live in the UP too and guess I would check the battery connections and would definitely have the alternator checked out. It is a 13 year old truck and plows are hard on alternators. Anytime under 20 I plug my 99 7.3 in. Makes easier starts and not so hard on the starter. Plus these powerstroke motors compress the oil to fire the injectors so when it's cold that oil is thick and takes some extra cranking.

If you are sure the charging system is good, and the belts are good and tight, I would have the plow pump motor checked. It could be drawing way more amps then it should causing the batteries to weaken by drawing more curret than the alternator can recharge.Kinda like a starter motor going bad,it will still crank,but slowly and quickly discharge the batteries

I do believe your alternator is shot. Had your problems one time with my ford and it was the alternator

Bad alternator. Get the highest output available. That's a big plow and requires a lot of electricity to run. Especially at night with the lights on.

have worked on a lot of these trucks. low voltage from more draw than charge ability is likely cause. one common thing to go wrong with these trucks is that the belt tensioner pivot is freezing up and not holding the belt tight. belt might be glazed also. could be the alternator, but I would bet on the belt drive system, also could be a/c pump clutch brg is going out making belt slip

You need to find a mechanic that has a load tester that is capable of at least 500 amps and knows how to use it. Each battery will need to be checked separately and start the test at a full charge.

He would also need a clamp on high amp probe to check alternator amp output and know how to use it. He will use his load tester to apply a load and confirm the alt is capable of at least 10% of its rated output. On your truck he may not need to load it after a few starts and all the loads that are already there the alt will already have its plate full... It would be interesting to know what normal plow motor amp draw is.

He will also need a DSO to check alternator current wave form and knows how to use it.

In between all this is the belt drive system...



That's the LAW!

Those alternators live a ruff life It almost needs two I would not dream of putting a low end battery in a truck like yours it would be the biggest and the best money could buy. My 7.3 glow plugs draw 160 amps cold they are on for at least 30 sec. the amp draw does tapper down to 60/80 amps. The alt starts off every time under the gun they are not know to be long winded I replaced mine at 124K the slip rings were worn slap arse out.

Confirm battery health and alternator condition its the law...

Had odd things going on with my 2000 7.3. Needed a new battery cable. 8 ft long hooks to both and then who knows .lol paid to have it done. Shop got cable cheaper than I could even on line. Problem solved. Cable looked good but was corroded inside

Alternators can have reduced output. Caused by a failed diode, bad connection, or slipping belt.

It will need all the power it can get under the conditions you describe. One of our company trucks is an 04 F350. I have noticed the glow plugs continue to cycle in cool weather even after the engine has been running. I would think they would continue even longer in the extreme cold you describe. When they are on, the voltage drops considerably, one would think the alternator is failing as it seems to just about balance the load at idle. But it's been that way since new, and never discharges the battery, so I assume it is normal.

But add the plow pump, no doubt the alternator will be struggling to keep up. I'm sure that is why there was the "dual alternator" option.

With the alternator being maxed out, that will stress the alternator, along with the rest of the delivery system, as in the wiring, belt, pulley, etc. I would check all these components. Look for any heat discolored wiring, check the belt tensioner, those have a history of failure. Feel the alternator pulley, if is hot, the belt is slipping.

IIRC, that alternator is mounted on top, easily removed. If so, take it to an alternator repair shop, have it tested. There may also be a higher output alternator available.

One last thought, is this truck used regularly? If not, a battery tender will get it off to a good start with a full charge.

Your alternator was not designed to put out at low RPM the amount of power you are using.

You have 2 options.

1- Have a shop supply or custom make an alternator for your truck with a properly sized pulley to generate the power you need at low engine RPM.
This will not be cheap but it will work.

Option #2 is spend more time moving snow and less time playing with buttons.

There is no good reason to lift the plow up to the limit of its travel every time you back up or turn around.

I have seen guys that could suck the life out of a set of batteries in a couple of hours of moving snow.
Same truck different operator could go 10 hours straight without any problems. :shock:

Are you getting some snow dust on your alternator drive belt when plowing? 13 years old I would replace the serpentine belt and the tensioner. Keep the belt as a spare.

You could have a bad battery cable or connection, a simple test would be put a charger on it overnight when you want to use it the next morning. I suspect the plow lift is using more energy that the alternator is putting out and if the belt is getting some snow on it that would reduce charging.

Thank you very much for all the replies. Based on what has been said I am thinking I need to take a look at my belt and alternator. The batteries are new, I got two Motorcraft batteries since the original ones lasted almost 13 years. Hopefully the replacement ones are better with 13 years of time to make things better like I would think every manufacturer is doing.

We had a toasty 10 degrees when I went out there this morning, it only went down to 5 here last night. The truck started great. To answer a few posts, I did some work with the multimeter. I had 12.45 volts before starting, then 11.75 or so right after starting. 5 minutes later when the truck had increased the idle on its own, my voltage reading was around 14.1. I ran around for awhile then when I had the truck sitting there in my yard I put everything on, the blower, radio and lights and I had around 12.1 volts at idle, what I would call low idle since the truck will increase the idle after start. From what I read that is low, but I did do a little plowing when I got home, maybe 5 minutes total. Don't know if that little bit of plowing should matter or not.

I have a Chilton manual here and it looks like I should look at that alternator a little closer. I think my low idle voltage should be higher that 12.1, but like I said I did some plowing when I got home.

Thanks again.

Thanks you sir for the reply.

The alternator pulley did seem pretty warm to me. I could keep my hand on it so it wasn't really hot. I wonder if that belt could be the problem because I never had these problems the first 10 years or so using the truck/plow together.

Sorry, but what does IIRC mean? Also the truck is used fairly regularly now but I hope to get my old F150 on the road for going back and forth to work next winter, then the 350 will sit around more. I need a tender for sure. I have some heavy equipment here that gives me problems when I go to use it once a month or so or even less. I need to use my endloader soon to push the snowbanks back but I know I am going to have problems getting that going. So I could really use some kind of a multi station tender if it exists. Would you have any recommendations on a good quality tender? Thanks.

How did they know that cable was corroded on the inside?

Thanks.

NOT sure what year they went to the new system, or if yours has it, but some time before 2009 the powertrain management 'puter took over the control of the alternator.

'Puter talks over CANBUS to the VR in the alternator and tweaks the alternator voltage output based on lots of things, likely including engine load, and emissions.

So the voltage "set point" at any given time is what some algorithm in the 'puter thinks it should be, rather than what you actually NEED to make things work!

Thought is was ridiculous quite a number of years ago when mopar put the VR in the engine computer, but by now Ford, and I suppose every other mfg. has done it!

NOT sure what goes on when you put an aftermarket high-output alternator on one of those vehicles, does the 'puter throw a code when it can no longer boss the alternator around?

I appreciate this information. Looks like a handy tool to have, especially for under $4.

Thanks.

That voltage is not right. Do check the belt first. replacing it will be needed either way if the alt is weak. if replacing it use the highest amp. alt that was offered on that truck. Jim

Shop I took it to ran a couple tests and figured it out. Was driving me crazy. New batteries. And alternator tested good. But most days had to jump t off ,or run a charger a couple hours.

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Have you replaced the belt since new? If not, that is a no brainer along with the tensioner. I wouldn't keep the old belt for a spare, buy a new spare too. While you've got the belt off you can check other pulleys for drag.

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low battery voltage—snow plow equipped tsb 05-5-7 vehicles—6.0