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Gas vs Diesel

O

Oliver 500 Wa

Member
I'll start by saying I've only ever had a diesel...

Why would one choose one fuel over the other? I've only been around a gas tractor a bit (ford 2000 that an ex-neighbor owned). Both tractors were/are ~35 hp.

The gas motor always needed points, cap and rotor in the spring to get it running. Diesel just starts.

Gas sucked up a fair bit more fuel to do similar work. (Haying)

Gas had to run, if I recall correctly, ~2000 rpm versus the diesel at 1600rpm (20%slower).

Personally I never saw the gas tractor have any advantage over my diesel as far as the engine was concerned. I suppose the exhaust smell was not as bad....

I'm sure there are good reasons for gas and likely lots of folks that love them. I'd like to hear just for the learnin'.
 
Having owned both, (same tractor model) the gas tractor always needed attention (ignition, or carburetor mainly). don't forget the wonderful gas they sell these days. The diesel has more torque than the gas (as you have discovered), and with regular filter, and oil changes the engine will go a lot longer before needing a rebuild. I will never own another gas tractor, one was enough.
 
Those who live in really cold country and need a tractor to feed or do chores in the winter prefer gas, because they are much easier to start when its cold. There may be exceptions, but at 20 below, most diesels just won't start.
 
I just happen to have two tractors, and I know they are different ages and different totally, but they happen to have the same identical displacement; 152 CID. The 1950 gas Farmall H and the 1997 diesel MASSEY Ferguson 240-S. Identical displacement. The Farmall is rated 24 HP, the Massey 48 HP. Twice the HP.
 
Historically a lot of it was familiarity. In the fifties, when diesel tractors really took off, diesel engines had a (well-deserved) reputation of being hard to start and cranky in general. Many farmers opted to stick with gas tractors or switched to propane, even though diesels were cheaper to operate. These prejudices stuck around well into the seventies. But as diesels improved, and the operating cost gap grew wider the market for gas and propane tractors dried up.

A while back, someone here wondered why there are no gasoline tractors available today. The answer is if there was a market for them, some manufacturer would produce them.
 
Gas will not gel in really cold weather like diesel
can. To me that is about the only advantage of gas ,
new Dirsel tractors have high compression engines
with direct fuel injection, and will start with the aid of
their on board preheaters . But are loaded down
with emissions and computer junk. Old diesel
tractors like my 930 Case had lower compression
and precombustion engines, My 930 will start with
it?s manifold heater easily enough at 25F but if it
gets much colder needs the bloke heater.
Gas tractors can be temperamental in cold too,
and carborators can ice over and cause the tractor
to run rough. Easy to flood a cold gas too.
I wouldn?t be surprised if more gas tractors aren?t
offered in the future. It cost a lot to make the diesel
emissions control systems, and they are a pain.
 
Here in the UK it is simply, and always has been, a NO BRAINER on the cost of fuel if nothing else! 'Tractor diesel' is currently around 50
nnalert/litre ($2.50/gal), while petrol (gas) is around ?1.20/litre ($6.10/gallon). NO farm could afford to run a gas tractor here, even if
there were any on the market. Cheap gas has never been available for agricultural use in the UK so the market has developed differently.
There are simply no gas tractors in the UK, at least none that are in work!
 
Back in the day the gas version of a tractor was significantly cheaper than the
diesel version .
Ben
 
The first tractors were gas, and diesel came along in fits and spurts in the 40s-60s. Many farmers were reluctant to change, just as many are reluctant to adopt computerized tractors today. Gradually diesel
won out, and gas disappeared from the scene in the 70's. The early 70's energy crisis help things along at that point as well.
 

I talked with an older gentleman some 8 years ago who when he emigrated from Europe landed at Val d'ore Quebec and worked at the gold mines there operating a big Cat bulldozer. He told me that when it was cold they would build a fire under the motor to start them. Then he moved to LA to get away from the cold.
 
when the feed has to be ground for the cows and its to cold for a diesel to run or the power goes out in the night and a gas
tractor is the only tractor that will start to run the generator to milk is why to keep agas tractor around
 
For me, I use mostly older tractors, so you buy what you find. Some tractors like a Case VAC or a Farmall cub are gas only as far as I have seen. Also sometimes gas will start better in the cold, especially dealing with older diesels. My 800 Case has no glow plugs, so starting in cold is a chore. Also some gas tractors are not that bad on fuel, my Case 300 can get a lot done on 5 gallons of gas. That said, I do prefer diesel for larger tractors.
 
I have both and the reason I've bought most of my tractors is price,if its not a bargain I don't buy.Usually gas tractors will sell for a lot less than a comparable diesel.Say there is a $2500 difference I can buy a lot of gas for $2500.Diesels also cost a lot more to repair than gassers so the fuel savings in the long run might not offset the cost of a new injection pump.
Generally the tractors I put right many hrs on I try to use a diesel the tractors I don't use much or a special purpose usually are gas.And a gas will fire right up in cold weather easier than
a diesel most times.
 
Interesting and my only comment is why is that and does that disparity reign in Europe, aka lot of diesel cars produced for the European market? Going to guess it's the fuel taxing structure because it's a no brainer that gas production costs don't support that kind of fee. So the next question is why pick on gas since OEMs make diesel auto's also and all trucks are (I guess) diesel.
 
Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

In the past, a big selling point of tractors was simplicity.

A small time farmer/rancher with basic hand tools and a little mechanical ability could field service his gas tractor, patch it up, make it run with minimal cost.

Not so with a diesel. It would run longer, but when it did break, he was subject to having it repaired, if there were repair facilities even available.

Today, times have changed. Diesel has become more available, along with service oriented dealerships. Also more BTO's, which need bigger equipment. If you keep diesel on hand, best to only need one type fuel for all.
 
We went from a gas grain combine to diesel maybe
15 yrs ago. The diesel has the exact same fuel tank
the gas as it was a 410 Massey and we have a 550
diesel now. The diesel will cut 60 acres on 1 tank
where the gas would barely do 30. They're not quite
the same size combine but not that big of
difference. Glow plugs made a huge improvement
in cold weather winter starting. It's all preference but
a well equipped diesel is way nicer to run than most
gassers.
 
My dad would work for a small portable sawmill that sawed blocking for steel mills when he was laid off in the winter. In real cold weather one of the guys would come to work early and build small fire under engine and service mill while waiting for engine to warm up.
 
(quoted from post at 10:08:31 12/05/17) I have both and the reason I've bought most of my tractors is price,if its not a bargain I don't buy.Usually gas tractors will sell for a lot less than a comparable diesel.Say there is a $2500 difference I can buy a lot of gas for $2500.Diesels also cost a lot more to repair than gassers so the fuel savings in the long run might not offset the cost of a new injection pump.
Generally the tractors I put right many hrs on I try to use a diesel the tractors I don't use much or a special purpose usually are gas.And a gas will fire right up in cold weather easier than
a diesel most times.
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BINGO! I can buy 2 35-45hp tractors for the cost of one diesel of the same type/condition. I prefer diesel in many ways, but they simply cost more to buy. I don't see a huge difference in cost to rebuild in the examples I've looked at. These days any 4 cyl kit with sleeves, pistons, bearings, etc is going to run $600 or more.
 
My wife might suggest lighting a fire under me to get ME going in 15C below zero, never mind my tractor! Seriously though, the only 'fergie' I could reliably start in very cold temperatures was my 50 year old MF 135 - my 675 and 550 just said 'no way!' Diesel 'waxing' here is not a problem as the fuel companies supply 'winter diesel' from October to April, and with a good battery the glow plugs were enough to get the old girl going (tractor, not wife!). Not sooooo cold here as in US or Canada, of course.

I did fit my truck (Toyota HiLux) with a wrap-around fuel heater on the filter - very effective - especially if I bought supermarket diesel in winter time - no anti-waxing agent in the cheap stuff!
 
Yes, it's all down to tax - the agricultural diesel is in a 'low tax' band (42%, one of the highest agric rates in the world), and the price of road fuel (either gas or diesel - they cost approx the same at the pump) - is more than 72% tax.
 
(quoted from post at 04:34:59 12/05/17) Those who live in really cold country and need a tractor to feed or do chores in the winter prefer gas
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GOSH, it must get CCCCOLD where you are! I'm in northern North Dakota, and I don't know of a SINGLE gas tractor left around here used to feed cattle.

And quite a few cattle DO get fed, even on the coldest days.

That being said, I have a 4020 gasser I blow snow with.

I do repair work, and can't think of a single gas tractor still in use for anything but parades or shows in a 30-mile radius with the exception of an 'ol guy's John Deere "B" he mows roads with.

So much for the theory that diesels aren't usable in the cold!
 
The goverment is realy ripping you off on fuel. Think the only reason they want the diesel is that it orignated in Germany and they want to honor the inventor. Not because it is better because it is not and it does not cost any more to make gas than diesel, Fact is diesel costs more always here in the states. I don't know how anybody can afford to run a diesel here considering the higher orignal cost, the higher repair bills ans the higher cost of the fuel.
 
Gas or diesel the RPM'S will be the same because the tranny and rear ends are the same. in same make and model. Only way the RPM'S would have been different is different make of tractor. And points should last for years. I had a Chevy truck the I thought for years had electronic ignition and found out after 15 years it was points, in all that time they were never touched. And the fuems of the spilled diesel at the pump makes me sick, have to use gas only pumps. Even following a diesel truck down the road those fumes comming into my vehical will make me sick.
 
Gas is sometimes cheaper per gallon then diesel.
Gas engine easier to start in severe cold
Gas fuel has no gelling problems in severe cold.
Gas engine is simpler and easier to work on.

I will also note that some gasoline farm-tractors are more fuel-efficient then some diesel farm tractors.

Also - if you compare a gas engine to a diesel engine, both with the same bore and stroke and aspiration - the gas
engine makes more power and often the same torque as the diesel at low RPMs.

Here is one example of high rated gas tractor versus a lower rated diesel tractor:

Oliver 1800 gas: 74 HP uses 5.6 gallons gas, 32.6 HP uses 3.4 gallons of gas, 16.5 HP uses 2.5 gallons of gas

Farmall 656 diesel: 65 HP uses 5.5 gallons diesel, 30 HP uses 3.3 gallons diesel, 15 HP uses 2.7 gallons diesel
 
We stuck with gas on loader tractor because it will start down at zero where as the diesel had to be put in block heater to start it.
 
Bob, if anyone had my Oliver 1550 on a cold day, they'd soon be looking for something different. I was thinking of older diesel tractors, which were often very difficult in the cold. I'm sure the new stuff is better.
 
You can,t even by new gas tractors any more. most all the co making tractors stopped making them in the early 70s. if we had to get by with those tractors we would not have many farmer out there. Most cattle feeders are buying 4wheel drive Ind loaders with cab, air and heat 100hp and up
 
Given the massive costs for emissions on small diesel tractors (compact and sub compact) and the high cost of maintaining those emission systems will gas tractor make a comeback in the small tractor market?

I ask because a friend of mine just spent over $3000 getting the DPF on his little John Deere to function again.
 
I live in frozen Manitoba-25 F a diesel will start if
plugged in. I have a 4230 and a 2394 and they are
the only tractors I have left. Use them every week
all winter. If hydro goes out I have a tiger torch I put
under it for 15 minutes and they fire right up. When
very cold and windy most gas tractors would always
freeze up the carbs out here. Diesel has never jelled
on me yet. But we have winter diesel here. I don?t
know anyone up here that still has a gas tractor
 
I park my old gas tractor and run two Diesel Tractors in the winter. My everyday user Diesels both start better. They are 2008 model and 2012 so they are newer models. I do have plug in heaters but they both will start with the pre heaters on their own without plugging in. I've done so in as cold as -20 degrees. I think most newer diesels start allot better than the old ones do. The diesels I've had have had all been manufactured after 1980 and would start ok in the winter. Growing up in the 50's and 60's we just parked the Ford Diesel in the winter, that would never start much below 20 degrees.
Off road Diesel Fuel Delivered to the Farm is still cheaper for me than gas. Although I think I can apply with the State of Michigan and get a refund on the gas tax for farm use, don't have to do it on Diesel as they give it to you when purchased.
Buying a tractor to use everyday I would not even consider a gas engine. Just my opinion.
 
It's a toss up. I've had hard starting diesels that I wouldn't want to have to depend on in cold weather,but I have and have had easy starting diesels too. My Fiat built Oliver with the thermo start heater will start when gas tractors won't,but my 1600 gas starts better than any of my other diesels do,so when cattle have to be fed every morning,one or the other will start one way or another.

My Oliver 1850 and White 2-105 both have 354 Perkins diesels. The 1850 is as easy starting as you'd ever want,the 2-105 wouldn't win any contests for easy cold weather starting.
 
(quoted from post at 06:51:24 12/05/17) Gas or diesel the RPM'S will be the same because the tranny and rear ends are the same. in same make and model. Only way the RPM'S would have been different is different make of tractor.
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Not necessarily so, the Allis Chalmers WD45 diesel runs at a higher rpm than the gas model, has a different gear ratio in the rearend.
 
When I was a youth in the 1970's, I watched as the first diesel tractor was purchased for our family farm. Prior to that, we had nothing but gasoline powered tractors. Three in particular were known to have an incredible appetite for gasoline and they were a 4020 John Deere, 806 Farmall, and 450 Farmall. For field use and many hours of operation, I wouldn't want anything other than a diesel. We fed cattle and we had to run feeding wagons in 3 lots every day. We fed in the morning. We then loaded the feeding wagons immediately after the morning feeding. We then fed again in the late afternoon. For these tasks, and not having a heated shed to place the chore tractor in, we would not have wanted anything but a gasoline powered engine in that tractor simply because of the cold winter weather and ease of starting. We typically fed and loaded with two tractors every day and both had gasoline engines. Both were under a roof at the very least, but not in a totally enclosed building. They were parked overnight usually in the alleyway of a corn crib. If the temperatures dropped well below zero, we would plug in the tank heaters on those tractors, and those stretches of cold temperatures could linger on for several days or a few weeks. Usually one of those two tractors had the front end loader, too, for moving snow before chores in the morning, too. I am not on the family farm, but I do live in the country. I have had a tractor to use where I live. It has had a front end loader and in the most recent years, I also upgraded to a better and newer machine. My older tractor was a 656 Farmall with a gasoline powered engine. It was tired when I purchased it, but it worked pretty good for the 11 years I had it. It always sat in an enclosed shed, but not heated. I started the tractor on a cold winter morning when the temperature was down to -17 F. It took quite a bit of choking, but it started up relatively easy. I now have an IH 86 Hydro, which is very cold blooded. If the overnight temperatures drop below 40 degrees, I simply make sure I plug the block heater into my time clock. It will take a couple hours of "cooking" for it to start. If it is colder in the winter months, I will have the heater come on about 4 hours before I need to use it for moving snow. I run a winter grade diesel fuel in the tractor year around since I do not burn a lot of fuel and I never quite know or how I am going to get the tank emptied, but I never pull it hard. It is just the nature of that engine, from what I have been told. One of my closest friends has one identical to it and has experienced this on his since he bought it new. Of the tractors we have at the family farm, typically the newer the model of tractor, the easier it starts in colder weather, too.
 

I prefer diesel in our low humidity for a couple of reasons. The diesel doesn't evaporate like gas will...I have a lot of tractors, and some sit for years without being started. The gas tanks are always empty on the gassers, either by evaporation or theft. The diesels are always ready to fire right up. In light work, the diesels will use half the fuel of a gas tractor....
 
Gas needs points etc. every spring WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have gas tractor that have not had a tune up in 10 plus years and they start every spring and run just fine. Gas tractor tend to use a bit more fuel then a diesel does but will start when it is zero out and many diesels will not start when cold. Also gas tractor are cheaper to fix if thing go bad like the points. I had an AC XT190 that need the injector pump rebuilt and it cost around a grand to have that done. A grand will replace a good many parts on a gas tractor.
That said each have there good and bad points
 
One thing that was not mentioned is that a gas engine will recover engine RPM faster than a diesel after being lugged down.
 

It's not necessary to shut a diesel off when refueling...gas fumes are dangerous. A neighbor almost burned down his barn gassing up his tractor. It wasn't running, but when he disconnected the gas pump lead from a battery there were enough fumes to ignite and follow right to the tractor, which burned up. I remember when I was a kid my dad told me one time he was gassing up the JD B. The battery was dead, so he left it running. He filled it a little too full and some ran down the side of the hood and splashed on the spark plug and the fire followed it right up to the tank. He said the only thing he thought to do was put his gloved hand over the gas tank opening. Fortunately that smothered the fire out. I'll take diesel, much safer.
 
(quoted from post at 09:26:27 12/05/17) One thing that was not mentioned is that a gas engine will recover engine RPM faster than a diesel after being lugged down.
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Good and bad. I started out using a gas tractor for custom bush hogging. That thing went thru lots of shear bolts. When I switched to a diesel of the same model I was amazed that it hardly ever sheared the bolt.
 
I have yet to ever catch a tractor on fire due to refueling it and most I have are gas tractors. The big thing is simple common sense when doing things. I've fueled up many while running or hot but I am also careful of how I do things. I have also done welding in and near gas tanks and have yet to blow one up but he key is to have it full so the fumes are no there mixed with air.
Only tractor I have that I know caught fire is an IH584 diesel and it was said to have been hit by lightning
 
The diesels are always ready to fire right up.

do you mean diesel is so desirable that no one will steal it.???
 
I've been predicting that gasoline engines will, indeed, become available in the sub 100 HP tractor market, partially due to federal meddling.

Stay tuned.

Dean
 

If the rest of the world did not luxury tax gasoline into being more expensive than diesel fuel. There would be very few small diesel engines and light highway motor vehicles in diesel.
It is most cost effective for vehicle and small equipment manufactures to build Tier I or II diesels for the majority of the world market. Then stick the cost of Tier IV emissions to western Europe and North America where the customers have deep pockets.
The injected gasoline engines in small offload sports equipment and light highway vehicles has become very efficient and cost effective.
After persuading customers to go the many advantages of a non emissions diesel diesel to get away from points ignition and carburetors up into the 1980's. It will be a tough sell now to move gasoline powered small farm equipment .
Although spark ignition engines still rule the lawn, golf, sports, forklifts, manlift , portable generator etc market.
We have diesel Kubota's at work and they are a pain for short trip operation outside in cool and cold weather. Some people never learn to heat the glow plugs prior to cranking. The short trips and glow plugs leave the batteries dead and require charging. Or pushing the vehicles inside to warmup.
The cab heaters don't work as the engines rarely raise the temperature gauge off the bottom indication.
We are trying to order the next Kubota in gasoline but this will have operators pumping gasoline into the diesel equipment and diesel into the gasoline equipment.
 
(quoted from post at 10:22:37 12/05/17) The diesels are always ready to fire right up.

do you mean diesel is so desirable that no one will steal it.???
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No, the low-lifes that steal gas generally don't have the money to afford diesel vehicles. Gas thieves just seem to know when you are using gas tractors....
 
Lots of really good answers! Thanks.

Where I am, we don't have real cold temps, but it is wet all winter. Once in a while we'll have a few days in the teens or 20s. I don't use my tractor much in the winter, but when it is around 30 or lower and I need to run it, I'll use my hot air gun and blow in the intake while cranking it. Starts pretty easily with that and I figure it's less wear and tear on the starter and battery. No glow plugs or pre-heater on the old Oliver/David Brown.

The neighbor's gas Ford usually sat all winter in a lean-to. Every spring the inside of the distributor was just a mess of corrosion. That's the reason he just changed all the distributor parts every spring. If it had been in a garage or something, it probably would not have been so bad.

The fuel usage difference came to light when his tractor had a problem with the transmission and he had hay that needed mowing, raked, and baled. I loaned him my tractor to run his equipment. When he brought it back he also brought 10 gallons of diesel in jugs. He had bought about what he figured he used with his tractor to get his hay in, but ended up with the 10 gallons left over.
 
I often wondered how successful a new 30hp to 40hp gas tractor would be. Using modern engines, fuel injection, electronic ignition. There are a lot of 4 cylinder car engines from almost every auto company that are very reliable and fuel efficient. We keep comparing old carbureted engines to diesels. I think a new gas engine would close the gap on fuel efficiency and torque. Won't match a diesel but won't have as large of gap either. The cost and complexity of modern diesel emission controls would go away. For the low hour user of a small Kubota a gas engine makes a lot of sense.
 
Bingo, Duane.

The introduction of modern gasoline powered sub 100 HP tractors is only a matter of time given federal meddling.

Stay tuned.

Dean
 
I often wondered how successful a new 30hp to 40hp gas tractor would be. Using modern engines, fuel injection, electronic ignition. There are a lot of 4 cylinder car engines from almost every auto company that are very reliable and fuel efficient. We keep comparing old carbureted engines to diesels. I think a new gas engine would close the gap on fuel efficiency and torque. Won't match a diesel but won't have as large of gap either. The cost and complexity of modern diesel emission controls would go away. For the low hour user of a small Kubota a gas engine makes a lot of sense.
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Wonder how it really would compare. I don't know anything about diesel emission control stuff, but a modern gas engine is pretty complex. All computerized. High pressure fuel system with direct injection. Lots of them are turbocharged. Catalytic converters. Lots of sensors.
 
I had goodluck with the Cockshutt gas tractors and they would start any time in the winter as long as the block heater was plugged in. Same on my Massey Super 90 Perkins diesel. Depending how cold, half hour to 3 hours will have that diesel warm as summer and running on the first turn of the starter.
Diesel tractors were not popular here until farms got bigger and required bigger tractors. Big gas tractors were a lot thirstier than diesels of the same horsepower. Plus the diesel engine seemed to last longer and stand up to long days in the field better than gas tractors.
 
I agree that modern gas engines are complex but they have a huge track record of success. You can easily hit 250,000 miles on a new car with basic maintenance. At 50mph average speed that is 5000 hours. I have 2 Chevy 2.4 liter ecotec 4 cylinder engines. One has 170,000 miles the other 130,000 miles. The engines have needed nothing but basic maintenance. I think they could be put in a tractor governed to 2500 rpm, make 40 horsepower and last a long time. 2.4 liters is around 150 cubic inches. A lot of old tractors in the 30 to 40hp size have similar sized engines.
 
There is a man who apparently is producing a conversion kit for New Generation John Deere gasoline powered tractors. This kit gets rid of the carburetor and replaces it with the necessary hardware (and computerized software) for electronic fuel injection. I first saw this in Green Magazine about a year ago. I do not recall the specifics of what was cited in the article, and again in another article about this, but I believe in a 6 cylinder Deere engine, he was experiencing a 20 percent increase in horsepower and something like a 10 or 15 percent reduction in fuel consumption. The company that puts out the components is FAST, which is a fuel injection specialty company, from what I recall. The Deere carbureted gasoline powered tractors, particularly the 3010/3020 and 4010/4020 are subject to criticism on this forum and others, and they are not known for being overly fuel efficient.

I read in one of my auto magazines a while back that with all the advances in the internal combustion engine, particularly in gasoline powered engines, the thermal efficiency gap between gasoline engines and diesel engines is closing. Additionally, with all the "smog control" equipment on the modern diesel engines, I suspect gains in thermal efficiency are getting harder to come by, as well as the added cost of such things as diesel exhaust fluid, service on particulate traps, etc. I can only hope the types of advances we have made with gasoline engines in terms of performance and efficiency, can be ultimately achieved in the diesel engines, too, and that right now we are going through "growing pains" with the smog control equipment in the diesel engine industry.
 
Not long ago, I started a discussion why nobody makes a 40HP gas tractor anymore. I'd buy one in a blink of an eye. I much prefer gas.
 
Commercial mowers use a lot of gas and
propane engines for less than 50 HP. Gas
engines are lighter which is good for
mowers, a minus for a tractor. Modern gas
engines have electronic ignition, computer
controlled timing, fuel injection, a higher
compression ration than in years past.
Gasoline around here is 20-30 cents cheaper
than diesel.
I think we will see a return of gas engines
under 100 HP.
According to the Nebraska Tractor Tests, a
gas engine was almost as fuel efficient at
full load, but lost the race at less than
full load. Unless you are doing maxed out
tillage, most tractors run WAY less than
full load. Diesels use fuel proportional to
load, gas engines not so much.
If gas engines come back in small tractors
they will run at twice the RPM as the
diesel. They will be quieter, cleaner, and
cheaper to operate because of fuel cost and
repairs.
I run a small business with about 30 one ton
trucks. All of this emissions garbage had
caused me to buy my last diesel. When they
break down, and they do because of the
complexity, it is expensive and difficult to
get them repaired.
 
There market may be ready for gasoline tractors, especially if the cost can be 10 to 20 percent less than a comparable diesel, but there is some momentum to overcome too. The development cost of a new engines and the cost of a new manufacturing lines to produce engines needs to be spread spread across a high volume of engines to be eeek out a return on the massive $10 million to $100 million investment. Production volumes need to be a quarter million unit and higher. The volume of farm machinery sold in the USA has not been high enough to justify AG-use only engines since the late 1970's. Agriculture now shares the same engines that the construction industry uses. As the market for gasoline engines expands in other industries (consumer products, light trucks and pickups?) those engines may well be adoptable to low-hour agricultural applications too.

Remember when automotive gasoline engines were common in combines and other self propelled harvesters?
 
......I run a small business with about 30 one ton trucks. All of this emissions garbage had caused me to buy my last diesel. When they break down, and they do because of the complexity, it is expensive and difficult to get them repaired.
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I've got a friend who is somewhat of a similar mind. He's always on the lookout for decent F450 and F550 trucks with the 7.3L motor. He does not want the newer, more complex ones.
 
Just noticing prices posted today, gas from $2.13 to 2.19 and diesel from $.46 to $.64 higher. You can buy quite a few extra gallons of gas for the difference.
 
Grandpa said that if he had to start farming over again now he would do it with gas because of the price difference in equipment. Can buy a nice gas burner for what a beat up diesel costs. I wouldn't exactly agree with his theory but it also makes sense to buy lots of gas for the price difference in a diesel.
 
Can you guys really buy gas at a price cheap enough for use in a tractor? NO WAY could anyone afford to do that in the UK! Equivalent of
$6.20 a gallon, here, and NO cheap version for agriculture!
 
if gas were a better option. we would use gas in semi,s notice all trucks are diesel try getting 2or 3 million miles out your gas pot
 
Here in the U.S.A. yes we can and do all the time. I only have one diesel tractor and all my other ones are gas and I use them a lot in the summer to cut rake and bale hay. But last time I was in town gas was $2.099 per gal.
 
Each has it place. I have 3 tandem axle dump trucks that are gas burners and when in service yes they ate the fuel but did a good job and went places some diesel would have trouble going to. But they where also twin stick rigs which took a bit to know how to drive.
Yes over the road a gas truck no longer has it place but back in the day they did but things have changed whole lot also
 
(quoted from post at 14:27:35 12/05/17) Can you guys really buy gas at a price cheap enough for use in a tractor? NO WAY could anyone afford to do that in the UK! Equivalent of
$6.20 a gallon, here, and NO cheap version for agriculture!
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hat is the price of diesel there for comparison. At $6.20 a gallon your government would appear even more dishonest than ours. What all is the gas tax spent on there. The world wide cost of production and delivery doesn't account for an aprox $4.00 a gallon difference. Just wondering.
 
Diesel as road fuel is approximately the same price as gas, that is $6 + a gallon, back or forth a few cents. Agricultural diesel (red diesel) is about $2 a gallon - Lord help you of you are caught using that on the highway!
What do they spend it on? Well, not on the roads anyway!
 
theres not a gas engine made to out work a diesel in farming and if there was you could not haul fuel fast enough . yea some say they are using gassers in farming but I don't think their definition of farm work is the same as most, ie mowing ,bushhog 50 sqare ft garden
 
Dean as posted above just not a market to support the cost, don,t think we will ever see it.
 
I drove for a commercial carriers that had 40 tractors and 5 straight trucks and 1/3 of fleet was gasoline powered( IH,GM,and Ford).
 
The reduced costs will create the market.

The Chinese will do it if the Japanese and Koreans do not.

Stay tuned.

Dean
 
Grandpa said that if he had to start farming over again now he would do it with gas because of the price difference in equipment. Can buy a nice gas burner for what a beat up diesel costs. I wouldn't exactly agree with his theory but it also makes sense to buy lots of gas for the price difference in a diesel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know if I buy into his theory either. So the diesel machine costs more up front, but they also seem to hold their value better when you sell it. Costs less to run it while you have it. Possibly does a better, faster job. Seems to me that you are not saving money in that scenario.

Locally, retail diesel is only 14 cents a gallon more than regular which is $3.09/gallon (you lucky guys in Ohio!). The minor increase in fuel cost (~5%) is easily outweighed by the better fuel economy (15-20%) of the diesel.
 
(quoted from post at 15:04:07 12/05/17)
I often wondered how successful a new 30hp to 40hp gas tractor would be. Using modern engines, fuel injection, electronic ignition. There are a lot of 4 cylinder car engines from almost every auto company that are very reliable and fuel efficient. We keep comparing old carbureted engines to diesels. I think a new gas engine would close the gap on fuel efficiency and torque. Won't match a diesel but won't have as large of gap either. The cost and complexity of modern diesel emission controls would go away. For the low hour user of a small Kubota a gas engine makes a lot of sense.
Click to expand...

Wonder how it really would compare. I don't know anything about diesel emission control stuff, but a modern gas engine is pretty complex. All computerized. High pressure fuel system with direct injection. Lots of them are turbocharged. Catalytic converters. Lots of sensors.
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The DI gasser is a low cost and simple engine compared to the Tier IV diesel .
 
(quoted from post at 15:38:30 12/05/17) Commercial mowers use a lot of gas and
propane engines for less than 50 HP. Gas
engines are lighter which is good for
mowers, a minus for a tractor. Modern gas
engines have electronic ignition, computer
controlled timing, fuel injection, a higher
compression ration than in years past.
Gasoline around here is 20-30 cents cheaper
than diesel.
I think we will see a return of gas engines
under 100 HP.
According to the Nebraska Tractor Tests, a
gas engine was almost as fuel efficient at
full load, but lost the race at less than
full load. Unless you are doing maxed out
tillage, most tractors run WAY less than
full load. Diesels use fuel proportional to
load, gas engines not so much.
If gas engines come back in small tractors
they will run at twice the RPM as the
diesel. They will be quieter, cleaner, and
cheaper to operate because of fuel cost and
repairs.
I run a small business with about 30 one ton
trucks. All of this emissions garbage had
caused me to buy my last diesel. When they
break down, and they do because of the
complexity, it is expensive and difficult to
get them repaired.
Click to expand...

Check the lbs of fuel per HP of a diesel at 25%,50% & 75% of full power. The gasser has higher efficiency than the diesel at part load.
 
(quoted from post at 17:27:35 12/05/17) Can you guys really buy gas at a price cheap enough for use in a tractor? NO WAY could anyone afford to do that in the UK! Equivalent of
$6.20 a gallon, here, and NO cheap version for agriculture!
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It isn't the cost of the gasoline, it is the cost of the tax.
 
(quoted from post at 18:22:05 12/05/17) theres not a gas engine made to out work a diesel in farming and if there was you could not haul fuel fast enough . yea some say they are using gassers in farming but I don't think their definition of farm work is the same as most, ie mowing ,bushhog 50 sqare ft garden
Click to expand...

You are stuck in 1969 comparing gasser to diesels way back then. This is 2017 with Tier IV emissions on the diesels and Gases with direct injection.
 
I looked at an Oliver 1250 that had a Toyota car engine installed,real nice job and the tractor operated real good.No reason a motor like that couldn't be put in a
farm tractor as all the pollution control problems have already been worked out.Or maybe someone could build an adapter kit for one of those motors to go into a popular
tractor thousands of those engines sitting in parts yards.
 
hey ,... stop beating a dead horse !,,..this was proven 70 yrs ago or more ,.. anyone that is serious about making
a living farming knows the answer, and have known since the 1st diesel demonstration .. gassers are good for
making someone a better mechanic , or good for frustrating and identifies those that are not capable of
solving problems.
 
A lot things have changed in the last 70 years I can think of a lot of things that were held to be a certain way 70 years ago that have changed.You want a medical operation
using 70 year old methods today? What did your cell phone look like 70 years ago?(LOL)
 
(quoted from post at 01:54:39 12/06/17)
(quoted from post at 17:27:35 12/05/17) Can you guys really buy gas at a price cheap enough for use in a tractor? NO WAY could anyone afford to do that in the UK! Equivalent of
$6.20 a gallon, here, and NO cheap version for agriculture!
Click to expand...

It isn't the cost of the gasoline, it is the cost of the tax.
Click to expand...

HAR!!! How else you gonna pay for "free" everything?
 
(quoted from post at 10:37:32 12/05/17) Yes, it's all down to tax - the agricultural diesel is in a 'low tax' band (42%, one of the highest agric rates in the world), and the price of road fuel (either gas or diesel - they cost approx the same at the pump) - is more than 72% tax.
Click to expand...


What country do you live in?
 
(quoted from post at 18:59:15 12/05/17) Diesel as road fuel is approximately the same price as gas, that is $6 + a gallon, back or forth a few cents. Agricultural diesel (red diesel) is about $2 a gallon - Lord help you of you are caught using that on the highway!
What do they spend it on? Well, not on the roads anyway!
Click to expand...

The world price of oil is about the same everywhere. What drives up your costs is the value of your currency and, primarily, the TAXES. I think you're in the UK. This is a prime example of why the "free" healthcare and heavily subsidized socialist economy is so expensive for those living under it. Next time your gov't offers up another "free" program, it will be reflected in your taxes.
 
I heard that about gas vs diesel pickups - so far the repairs bills on the diesel pickups are more the FUEL AND REPAIR bills on the gas trucks.
 
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