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Building Permits: Learning.

B

Brent Zappe

Member
This past year I had to move? SO I did no problem. This summer order two One car Garages for my property 12X24 units. waiting on permit to be okay. This past week say a County Inspector drive by did not stop. Just drove up the street and turned around then went down the street. Now I find out that would not okay the permit because there is a metal structure next to my house. Which is my Trailer Hauler. that is only a 7X14 double axle trailer which does not apply to not giving me the permit. lazy County workers so lazy he can not even get out of his truck to see what it was. if this guy this Lazy why is he still working I ask he should be fired for not doing his job. I always had to work had for minimum wage all my life. so what make these guys special may I ask.
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(quoted from post at 10:49:34 12/01/17) This past year I had to move? SO I did no problem. This summer order two One car Garages for my property 12X24 units. waiting on permit to be okay. This past week say a County Inspector drive by did not stop. Just drove up the street and turned around then went down the street. Now I find out that would not okay the permit because there is a metal structure next to my house. Which is my Trailer Hauler. that is only a 7X14 double axle trailer which does not apply to not giving me the permit. lazy County workers so lazy he can not even get out of his truck to see what it was. if this guy this Lazy why is he still working I ask he should be fired for not doing his job. I always had to work had for minimum wage all my life. so what make these guys special may I ask.
He is a government employee! I didn't say 'worker'.!
:cry: :cry: :cry:
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I forget this but it is true. One person digs the whole, the other person watches, the other person put the plant in the whole and the other person fills the whole. The supervisor set in his truck and watch it all.
 
17 Years ago I built my house. Home builder said if I didnt get permit it would help me in the long run as wouldnt need permits for fences, out buildings etc. I did my homework and he was reputable. We ended up with a great working relationship...as I ended up being the Gen. contractor for financial reasons as well as doing some of the building/work myself... Any way I have built two large metal buildings, installed fence. etc. Never had to get building permits.. never had problems.. Around here if you have over 20 acres your considered a farm. Didnt know the rules and whys and whatfors back then but was a very good move on my part.. Still had to have inspections though which is good..

One other note ....buildings that are not permanent structures can be put on property without being taxed.. I have a couple of those too..you can ancor those down with large 3 foot augers in the ground and never had problem..Dont know that any of this helps you or applies to where your at..
 
Are you sure he wasn't referring to the cream colored building, rather than the trailer, and that perhaps the 2 buildings that you want to put up, constitute too big a footprint for the size of your lot, especially when a septic leach field and distances from well etc. are considered???
Loren
 
Now slow down and try to follow the rules where you are located.

My across the road neighbor built a nice metal building, 50 X 100. Ignored all permits that were required. When he decided to install electrical service it all went crazy. He won out and even got some code requirements changed in this county but the county won too. His barn appraised for $288,000 for property tax reasons.

I would find out how to work thru this.

We've got an inspector here that when he pulls up on site I have to walk away. He gives the whole department a bad reputation when in fact two of the inspectors are fair to work with.
 
The wife and I lost our home to fire shortly after getting married. In the process of rebuilding, obviously had to get some permits. One of these permits was for a 3-season porch, along with another permit for an elevated deck with steps and ramp.

We got a notice one day (or a call; can't remember which) saying that our work had passed inspection. ????????????? We couldn't understand this, as construction was still in progress and there was still a long way to go. Also, we knew that nobody had been there at the place to check on anything. So you're not alone in this kinda thing happening. Am pretty sure it's happened to many other folks, for far more years than we probably want to guess at!
 
With the government we are guilty until proven innocent. My son lives on an acreage across the road from me. I own the surrounding land. Every time he moves a portable building to a new location on his property the county sends him a notice about a new taxable building on his property. It's the same building but in a different location. One of those times the county thought the new building was on my adjoining property so that time I was the one who had to made a trip to the courthouse.
 
We can offer you all the opinions and commiseration that you may want to read, but I'm afraid you wont get any usable answers until you talk to your county inspector. Try to avoid being confrontational and the process can be surprisingly easy compared to butting heads for months or years.
 
If that operation was on a guvment job, the boys cut their income by 2/3 when they put the plant in it. Had a spec book recently on prevailing wage that had to be paid on guvment contracts. Laborers (dig a hole) get $36 an hour, landscapers (plant a plant in the hole) get $12.50. Laborers have a union, landscapers do not.
 
I had a law professor in college who spent an entire semester driving home the point that there are at least two or more ways to look at any situation.

I'm liaison to our County Planning & Zoning Administrator. You wouldn't believe the schemes people come up with to try to get around the zoning regulations. For instance, due to a severe ground water shortage, part of our county limits residences to 3 per quarter section. People will try to circumvent that by running two houses off of one well, etc., as though two houses running off of one well will use less water than two houses running off of two wells. You almost have to feel sorry for some folks, though. Maybe 30 years ago, they bought some land planning on building a retirement home on it "someday". Then when the time comes, they find zoning regulations have changed, others have built and maxed out the quarter section, etc., and the fellow suddenly finds out he can't build.

If there are simple solutions, I'm all ears.
 
(quoted from post at 12:46:01 12/01/17)
If there are simple solutions, I'm all ears.
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In many instances, there ARE simple solutions -- just, seems like nobody is willing to change their lifestyle to adjust to the changing conditions.

Was in LA California for about a month about 3 years ago. There were water use bans in place at the time. However, people kept watering their lawn and washing their cars. So yes, simple solution, but unwilling people.
 
Maybe you always had to work for minimum wage because you did not strive to get a better paying job. The inspector at least went to night school for building code classes and that knowledge warrants a certain level of pay. I would advise not to make the inspector an enemy.
 
Like Goose, I am involved with our county's planning and zoning department. I also farm part time, too. I feel I have a better understanding as to the "why's" of local government and its role. Rules and regulations, particularly various types of ordinances, are in place because common sense, getting along with one's neighbor, putting a little bit of thought into one's decisions, foresight, and a variety of other traits, while they probably do apply to 98 or 99 percent of the people, that last 1 to 2 percent lacks at one of those traits, and in some cases, lack all of these important traits. Permitting standards are in place to allow the use of property in a manner that conforms to the local jurisdiction's standards, or rules and regulations. Nearly all people will use their property in an appropriate manner, and by requiring permits, any unpermitted structures or activities can be dealt with in a legal and fact based manner, which is what is necessary.
 
that is a rude comment what makes you think he didn't try to get more education?
maybe life circumstances made it so he could not do other wise. such as family to support and had to drop out of school to help support younger family members.
i have seen that happen more than once. mrs 730's aunt comes to mind. mrs 730's grandfather was sick and unable to work.
at that time the GREAT UNCLE SAM didn't give money to every tom dick and harry that wouldn't work.
 
(quoted from post at 17:23:09 12/01/17) that is a rude comment what makes you think he didn't try to get more education?
maybe life circumstances made it so he could not do other wise. such as family to support and had to drop out of school to help support younger family members.
i have seen that happen more than once. mrs 730's aunt comes to mind. mrs 730's grandfather was sick and unable to work.
at that time the GREAT UNCLE SAM didn't give money to every tom dick and harry that wouldn't work.
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too see that as unnecessarily harsh comment. Furthermore, education isn't always what makes an inspector. Often they are NWAS plumbers, electricians, framers, etc. that couldn't cut it in the competitive free enterprise world. We have a few here.
 
2002 Silv. " in an appropriate manner", as determined by someone other than the property owner. Spoken like the typical bureaucrat, appointed or elected to lord over others. Didn't need to say so. "I am involved with our county's planning and zoning department"
 
When I was a contractor, part of my obligation to my customers was to supply code enforcement with all plan changes, and schedule required inspections during the construction process. A good example would be the plumbing which would be covered with a concrete floor and plumbing and electrical, in studs that would be covered by wall sheathing of any type. Same when we did septic systems. Inspector wanted to see pipes in open ditches, not all covered up. I did all the scheduling of inspections, and got verbal OK from inspector to proceed, and written notice of approval was sent to customer as a legality. If you had a contractor, that would explain why you received an approval for work done. There was a signoff sheet with the building permit on the job site as inspections were completed.
Loren
 
I might point out that zoning regulations, like all laws, are in place for the common good, not to satisfy one person's idiosyncrasy. An excellent example is the area, approximately 1/3 of our county, that has a groundwater shortage and has been declared a "water conservation district", with houses limited to 3 per quarter section.

Without zoning regs limiting construction, people who only want to live in the country and commute to a city job outside the county could come in and seriously disrupt or destroy the water supply for residents who have lived in the same house on the same location, and who have either farmed or worked within the county, for as many as 50 years. Does that sound fair?
 
Newbie to the forum here.
One thing I have learned about building permits and the inspectors.............
If you are an "owner/builder" doing most of the work yourself, Your project is "black listed".
The permitting employees make every effort to make it a miserable process.
The building inspectors are all peeved because you are not giving them any kickbacks that their buddys in the construction business give them.
Thus every inspection fails at least the first time so that you have to pay another fee to get a second inspection.
And maybe it will then pass or maybe not.
Also, do not dare to challenge what the inspector says you need to do to "make it right".
Ask three inspectors the same question and you will get three different answers. And none of them will be able to prove their answer to be inline with the printed regulations.
But you better do it the way they say or you fail to pass inspection.
 
You're out of line. You did mention his education. You said, and I quote "The inspector at least went to night school for building code classes and that knowledge warrants a certain level of pay".
You're calling him lazy and uneducated. You don't know anything about him or his situation, you say this, and turn around and say you didn't.
 
The problem is the 1-2% of the inspectors, that fall into the same statistics you mention........

There was a time the govt was there to help society.

The past couple decades, the govt has gone to be a 'check mark' institution. A person needs one, 5, 23 check marks on a piece of paper and then everything is wonderful. Miss one checkmark, and you are dead on the water. The actual issue, the actual project, the actual situation means nothing. One needs to collect checkmarks and that is all that is important.

That is a little disheartening.

Paul
 
The past couple decades, the govt has gone to be a 'check mark' institution. A person needs one, 5, 23 check marks on a piece of paper and then everything is wonderful. Miss one checkmark, and you are dead on the water. The actual issue, the actual project, the actual situation means nothing. One needs to collect checkmarks and that is all that is important.


Paul
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Very accurate. I put in a swimming pool about 10 years ago. I did the design, and hired the subs. There are three inspections due for in-ground pools in my area. I called after the dig and with the steel in, and waited most of the day for the guy to show up. He drove up in an old truck, shuffled out, at about 350Lbs, wandered over near the hole, and filled out a small green tag. He couldn't even bend down to put the tag on the rebar. The second time he didn't even show. The third time just before adding water I came by and we chatted for a bit. He asked me to go take a picture of the pool and equipment and bring it back to the truck. I had a couple pics on the phone, and he signed the final and handed it to me. 'Have a good one!' and he was off. Total cost - $477. gah, what a tool.
 
Hello dr sporststet,

You are out of line Sir! Accentuate the positive is not what you are doing!I
Advice? Maybe when he needed it! Now.........


Guido
 
We have local zoning and building codes. The county is not involved unless a municipality does not adopt their own building and zoning. Pennsylvania has adopted the Uniform Construction Code. Buildings used for agriculture purposes do not need a local building permit but a municipal zoning permit may be required. Our municipal zoning officer will push for a building permit and if a person does not know the law they end up paying for a permit.
Our municipality has a third party that does construction inspections. I had the roof replaced on my house and no one ever came to inspect the job even though I had to pay for the inspection and this happens consistently.
 
Hi Brent you should see some crews the day the guy that puts the plant in is away for some reason. The other 2 dig and fill holes and the foreman still sits and watches L.O.L .
 
(quoted from post at 19:23:09 12/01/17) I might point out that zoning regulations, like all laws, are in place for the common good, not to satisfy one person's idiosyncrasy. An excellent example is the area, approximately 1/3 of our county, that has a groundwater shortage and has been declared a "water conservation district", with houses limited to 3 per quarter section.

Without zoning regs limiting construction, people who only want to live in the country and commute to a city job outside the county could come in and seriously disrupt or destroy the water supply for residents who have lived in the same house on the same location, and who have either farmed or worked within the county, for as many as 50 years. Does that sound fair?
Click to expand...
wo ALARM WARNING phrases/words here! "for the common good" & "fair". Whose "common good"? Those few already there? "Fair" is the most idiotic concept I ever heard used to try to rationalize or justify anything! Come up with something concrete, not fairy dust.
 
I guess you know why I am upset about this all this person had to do is come to be and say. this metal structure by the house needs to go. I would had back the truck up it and moved it right then and there. The trail has stuff in it because I do not have garages right now. I moved it yesterdays only took 3 minutes to move.
 

Since he never pulled into the driveway maybe he thought your house was the metal structure. :lol:

Goose: Not sure where your at but we go in acres, so for guys like me that don't know, how much area is a quarter section?

dr sportster: The area one lives in has a lot to do with job pay and availability. In some places if you wanted one of those higher paying jobs you had to be in the click or someones son to qualify. I've worked min wage jobs just to be near home, I've also worked jobs that paid well but required travel and time away from home. when I figured up time involved on the job, even though I was making good money, total time involved equaled to less than min wage.
The national average used to be for every one above min wage job there where 3-4 min wage workers providing services to that worker, shelve stockers, burger flippers, ect.
Some work min wage jobs by choice, some by circumstance and yes some by lack of education, which again could be by choice, circumstance or ability.
 
Okay here is a new one for you .Do you really believe any adult male worked his entire life for minimum wage ? That would be quite a task . Never one raise . Never transferring to anything better . This whole story is BS . Complete BS . Nobody worked their entire life for minimum wage unless they were fubar.
 
And thus we realize what 80% of government legislation results in nothing more than patronage jobs for people who can't actually produce goods and services at a marketable price. So much of the inspection system is based on a concept
that is totally contrary to our constitution. Our constitution provides for the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, the inspection system doesn't afford the presumption of innocence, nor does after the fact enforcement actions
based on missed inspections. Maybe the population should petition the government that such inspection fees and the cost of any legal fees proving innocence automatically become a non-expiring tax credit so when the county wants to drop
$500 to $1,000 in inspection fess on your building project the state gets to eat the next $500 to $1,000 in income tax. Then the state may look at the actual value provided in a legislation and employ the concept of diminishing
returns.
 

Around here, residential roof replacement does not require a permit. I own a commercial property, and the inspectors always showed up, on time.
 
(quoted from post at 11:19:20 12/02/17) Okay here is a new one for you .Do you really believe any adult male worked his entire life for minimum wage ? That would be quite a task . Never one raise . Never transferring to anything better . This whole story is BS . Complete BS . Nobody worked their entire life for minimum wage unless they were fubar.
Click to expand...

You need to get out in the real world more.
Visit a Section 8 housing project your tax dollars have provided to house the tenants that either want nothing more than a minimum wage job or no job ever, at all their entire life.

Have you never known anyone that only works long enough to get enough cash to go on a bender? be it booze or drugs?
 
(quoted from post at 13:19:20 12/02/17) Okay here is a new one for you .Do you really believe any adult male worked his entire life for minimum wage ? That would be quite a task . Never one raise . Never transferring to anything better . This whole story is BS . Complete BS . Nobody worked their entire life for minimum wage unless they were fubar.
Click to expand...

Who said he never got a raise?

My wife started out at minimum $4.50 (iirc), got a couple of raises up to $6.25.
Minimum wage has raised to $6.25. Do think she got a pay increase? Of course not. End of that job.
 
You know I thought the same thing. I went out there and measure it and that building is 12 feet away from the house. I am to be 10 feet away from the house with that building and it is okay. This building I plan to tear it down later because I plan to get a big water tank for the well. this building holds a pressure tank which is about 75 gallons and it is to small for what I have plan to do next summer. Need to have a big water tank for sprinklers in a work shop that will be require by the county when shop is built.
 
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