- Thread starter Farmall49
- Start date
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Mounting is not the same as matching. If there is a engine on the baler now things are better than if it is a PTO baler. If engine driven, the rpm at full load of the original engine, and the original drive belt system must be used to avoid over speeding the baler mechanism. It will not work faster in strokes per minute and survive. The extra power will not be usable if the shear bolts or slip clutch is set to original specifications. Stronger shear bolts and or slip clutches will cause all other parts to fail some sooner some later, but you will be very disappointed trying to make it (and the processing of hay) go faster. If it is a PTO driven baler, you have way more difficult tasks ahead for little gain other than the efficiency of diesel engines. PTO systems turn at 540 RPM and the engine will probably be turning around 2000 RPM. Absolutely not reasonable to drive it that fast, it will bot even get to speed before flying apart. So there needs to be a gear reduction system that can handle abut 40 HP. Not financially reasonable. Balers are usually designed for near maximum output for their intended use. cranking them with more force or more RPM will not work. Jim
flying belgian
Well-known Member
Baler has a fixed amount of capacity no matter how many horse you put ahead of it.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I would be careful with the Chinese small diesels. Had a guy bring me a generator he couldn't get started. Got it started and it melted in front of us.
Janicholson
Well-known Member
By breaking. Jim
tn terry t
Well-known Member
GO BACK AND READ Janicholson's POST HE GAVE YOU THE CORRECT ANSWER :roll:
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
If the belt pulley on engine is correct size then I think you'll be fine if engine speed is set so baler operates at correct strokes per minute. I think you'll need a way similar to factory mechanism to tighten belt or belts after engine has started. I still remember making service calls on sq balers with the Wisconsin air cooled engines.
$400 for a new 30 HP diesel engine sounds cheap & I hope it lasts long enough to be worth your effort.
ptfarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Tx
Everyone I know that had a baler with a engine on it switched it over to pto drive. You really need a baler that can handle more capacity than what you have now.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Older balers don't respond well to being crowded,won't be long before something breaks.Baling slow gets more baling done than the baler in the shop being repaired.
gene bender
Well-known Member
going fast means less slices of hay per bale results are poor bales.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
WELL YOU'RE ORIGINAL POST WAS NOT VERY CLEAR.
The main reason people got away from baler mounted engines is they were always hard to start due to sitting most of the year. IMHO.
What are you pulling the baler with now? An H Farmall at 26 hp will pull the baler and put all the hay in it that the baler wants. As others have said when you crowd it and start breaking shear bolts your hay production goes way down.
Tx Jim
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coyote Flats, Texas
IMHO the reason one rarely sees an engine operated sq baler was the introduction of "live pto" on tractors.
Granted those air cooled Wisconsin engines could be a bear to get running especially when they had been operated for several hours
teddy52food
Well-known Member
Looks like you will be learning a lot the hard way.
Go fast?
Pretty much any 25HP or more tractor can run that baler at its maximum PTO speed at its maximum output. I seriously doubt you are running out power due to the amount of hay you are shoving through it. If its anything like my New Holland baler (276) you run out of shear pin strength before the tractor pulls down. The old Wisconsin motors on the New Holland balers were 15 to 18 hp if I recall correctly - and they didn't have the torque that a full sized inline 4 cylinder (or larger) tractor engine had.
You could pull you baler with 150Hp tractor an you won't go much faster than with a 25Hp tractor. You could bump up your PTO speed (hook it up to the 1000 PTO and throttle it back) and run it faster than rated speed but that would probably only work for a very short time. I recall someone on here saying they had tried that and then "forgot" and ran the baler at the full 1000 PTO speed - when it tripped to tie the bale the baler jumped up off the ground.
Pretty much any 25HP or more tractor can run that baler at its maximum PTO speed at its maximum output. I seriously doubt you are running out power due to the amount of hay you are shoving through it. If its anything like my New Holland baler (276) you run out of shear pin strength before the tractor pulls down. The old Wisconsin motors on the New Holland balers were 15 to 18 hp if I recall correctly - and they didn't have the torque that a full sized inline 4 cylinder (or larger) tractor engine had.
You could pull you baler with 150Hp tractor an you won't go much faster than with a 25Hp tractor. You could bump up your PTO speed (hook it up to the 1000 PTO and throttle it back) and run it faster than rated speed but that would probably only work for a very short time. I recall someone on here saying they had tried that and then "forgot" and ran the baler at the full 1000 PTO speed - when it tripped to tie the bale the baler jumped up off the ground.
Forget it. A factory engine can increase capacity but they are designed to work. And a factory engine can increase capacity over a PTO on a live PTO tractor for the simple fact that you can adjust the ground speed to windrow size, not to tractor gearing because proper ground speed for the baler under certain conditions may be midway between the 2 avaible gears in tractor with one being slightly slow and the next too fast. But don't try engenering something that is not going to work and that is what you are thinking about doing. I have had both engine powered and pto powered. And when we finally figured out what was making hard starting no more problems with starting on that Wisconsin.
Apply the money for the engine to trading tractors. 50 HP to 75 HP with live PTO will have the power and weight to comfortably handle an older square baler with a full wagon in all conditions: hills; road; heavy windrows; etc. An undersized tractor will still be short on weight to safely handle a heavy baler and a wagon.
$400 for the engine will just be the part of your costs to install an engine on a baler, especially if it is a bare engine instead of a complete power unit. If it is a bare engine you will need to add: a clutch; a way to control the clutch from the tractor; speed reduction (4 to 1?); engine mounts; starter battery, switch and cables; control panel with temperature and oil pressure gauges or lights; a cooling system for a water cooled engine or cowling for an air cooled engine; maybe reinforce the baler tongue, etc. Figure a minimum of another $1,000 and 50 plus hours of your time to get the engine installed and the bugs worked out.
Some Amish use PTO carts to power horse drawn PTO equipment, what would one of those carts sell for?
$400 for the engine will just be the part of your costs to install an engine on a baler, especially if it is a bare engine instead of a complete power unit. If it is a bare engine you will need to add: a clutch; a way to control the clutch from the tractor; speed reduction (4 to 1?); engine mounts; starter battery, switch and cables; control panel with temperature and oil pressure gauges or lights; a cooling system for a water cooled engine or cowling for an air cooled engine; maybe reinforce the baler tongue, etc. Figure a minimum of another $1,000 and 50 plus hours of your time to get the engine installed and the bugs worked out.
Some Amish use PTO carts to power horse drawn PTO equipment, what would one of those carts sell for?
Determined
Well-known Member
Nothing is impossible if you are stubborn enough and have the time and resources.
ptfarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- San Antonio, Tx
(quoted from post at 08:04:57 10/29/17)
Nothing is impossible if you are stubborn enough and have the time and resources.
Just buy one, its easier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXPxMoKtUR0
"Go fast" and "baler" is a recipe for disaster, and if you get that lash-up put together, you won't have to wait long for the stuff to start flying off.
I've attached your theme song.
Hard on Equipment
I've attached your theme song.
Hard on Equipment
I have a JD 24 baler with a Wis 2-cyl on it. Years ago I was buying chicken manure by the trailer-truck load and spreading my hayfields. Result was huge windrows using a 9 foot hay SP, in turn stalling the baler even when just creeping with the Ford 9N. Solution was mounting a second engine on top in front of the feeder forks. I used two double vee belts, one from each engine side by side on the same original flywheel (which I had the crown machined off so it was flat). I only use the top engine now as a backup. I started the top engine by tightening the top belt after I got the bottom one started. I had it at a show once and a guy thought it was factory- built. I"m a retired welder/fabricator.
I think you're heading in the wrong direction. You'd be worlds ahead getting a bigger tractor than trying to cob an engine on the 283. I had a Wisconsin on my NH68 when I first got it. It was run by 3 large vee belts and had issues power-wise. You'd have to figure the engine pulley size and flywheel size to get the baler running at recommended speed. I'm not sure how you'd do that, but the NH set up put the engine on the baler. I wouldn't try direct gearing the diesel to the flywheel, that just ain't a gonna work.
I really can't think of a reason to do what you're thinking of if you are still going to pull the baler with a tractor with a PTO. Get a different tractor. For that matter, you can only go just so fast baling no matter what you have for HP.
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
Interesting concept. I have a SMTA with live PTO and hate square baling with it. I stick with an H or M, used to bale about 15,000 per year. Problem I have with the live PTO is I've never learned to use it, so when there's an emergency I like everything to quit when I hit the clutch.
I'm in the minority.
NHbalerman
Member
The best thing to do is find the original mounting brackets for that baler and put a Wisconsin engine on it that is what I do on mine had to build the mounts for the 570s works like a charm can keep baler running at full capacity like it was designed for drivelines and slip clutches are way to expensive this is what works for me HERE
How rough are your fields?
If the baler bounces too much, the trip for bale length
may fall too soon and you'll have all sorts of bale lengths.
and if it bounces as it's tieing, there may be knotter issues problems.
If it bounces too hard, the needles may start to enter
the bale chamber, causing the plunger stop to engage
and cause you to break shear pins, at the very least.
Just take your time and enjoy the scenery!!!!
If the baler bounces too much, the trip for bale length
may fall too soon and you'll have all sorts of bale lengths.
and if it bounces as it's tieing, there may be knotter issues problems.
If it bounces too hard, the needles may start to enter
the bale chamber, causing the plunger stop to engage
and cause you to break shear pins, at the very least.
Just take your time and enjoy the scenery!!!!
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Yes, you can put your engine on it.
No, it will not let you "go fast."
No, it will not let you "go fast."
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