I've had a lot of magneto trouble the past year and am kind of fed up. This on my 70 year-old Cletrac crawler with a Hercules engine. Note - I use it pretty hard. To me, this is not a collector's machine. I have done a lot of work with it. Last spring - after being in storage all winter - it had no spark. As usual, the points oxidated and it is quite a project to get the mag off and clean them up. After that, a few weeks later it started losing spark after it got good and hot (took a few hours of pushing dirt). After it would cool off, it would run again until hot and then quit again. I figured it was the coil in the mag. It had the wrong mag on it anyway (Fairbanks Morse FMJ from an Allis Chalmers). So, I bought a brand new Wico XH since I was sick of jerking around with this thing and it is out in the middle of nowhere. The new mag worked great for a few weeks until winter came and I put it back in storage. Come this spring - no spark again. Yes, brand new mag and points got oxidized. So pulled this one all apart, cleaned them up, got it running. Used it for a few weeks and the coil went bad in the Wico now. So I just got a new coil for $70 and now it is running good (for now). Maybe the quality of parts are not what they used to be? I ran it five days straight building roads in the Michigan UP. Running great but I want to do something to make it more reliable. I am wondering if anyone has coverted a mag to breakerless? Seems if they do it on lawn-mower engines and chainsaws, there ought to be a way to do it on one of these self-contained mags. I do NOT want to "reinvent the wheel" though. Hoping to find someone who has already done it.
- Thread starter JDEM
- Start date
Just a curious question, are you keeping it indoors out of the weather, or is it living under a tarp or exposed. I have one tractor with a mag. It is my regular user. I keep it in the shed almost every time after using. I've had no issues(knock on wood) with my mag. I am fortunate enough to have a place for it inside. I realize you are outside with it working it no way you can park it in a shed nightly, but, in the winter/off season where does it live. gobble
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
I've never tried it, but wonder if one of the Briggs and Stratton point eliminator kits would work? Sure be easy to find out, just one wire to connect.
Or, with a little ingenuity, and access to a lathe, I'm sure a Pertronix ignition could be adapted in place of the points, run an external coil connected to an ignition switch. Pertronix may even have something ready to go, might give them a call.
B&S Point Eliminator
Or, with a little ingenuity, and access to a lathe, I'm sure a Pertronix ignition could be adapted in place of the points, run an external coil connected to an ignition switch. Pertronix may even have something ready to go, might give them a call.
B&S Point Eliminator
The problem is that it is just about impossible to get good contact sets these days.
The corrosion protection on the contacts is vanishingly thin and is easily removed with a point file or other abrasive.
Wish I had a solution for the points quality problem but I do not.
It is likely that the quality of the other parts has likewise gone the way of the doe doe bird.
I'm guessing that you will need to design your own breakerless conversion.
Dean
The corrosion protection on the contacts is vanishingly thin and is easily removed with a point file or other abrasive.
Wish I had a solution for the points quality problem but I do not.
It is likely that the quality of the other parts has likewise gone the way of the doe doe bird.
I'm guessing that you will need to design your own breakerless conversion.
Dean
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
To eliminate the points. I think you will have to use an IHC distributor for a model M converted to EI.
Was there ever a dist. made to fit that engine ?
I know what you mean about sitting and oxidation. I can have tractors sitting in a heated insulated building and if left there unused along time I still have a few that need to have the points wiped clean to get spark. But not all of them ? Maybe where they stop if open or closed effects them too ?
I often wondered about using the little ign. chip used to eliminate points in air cooled engines but never messed with one.
Be worth a try in something easier to get to first and then if it works do the crawler.
I know what you mean about sitting and oxidation. I can have tractors sitting in a heated insulated building and if left there unused along time I still have a few that need to have the points wiped clean to get spark. But not all of them ? Maybe where they stop if open or closed effects them too ?
I often wondered about using the little ign. chip used to eliminate points in air cooled engines but never messed with one.
Be worth a try in something easier to get to first and then if it works do the crawler.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
There you go. IH distributor with a Pertronix electronic ignition.
This Hercules IXB-3 engine has a flange-mount, tang-drive, magneto. A Wico XB flange-mount distributor for a four-cylinder engine would fit if I could pick one up somewhere. I am thinking about doing that and converting to battery ignition. Even if I do that though, I still want to eliminate the points.
Note - this mag is very hard to get to. If it was out in the open, it would not be such a big deal. This crawler has a dozer and loader frame on it with a lot of extra steel in the way. It also has a special exhaust manifold that drops the carb down lower then OEM and it nearly sits right against the magneto. It was a replacement exhaust manifold kit that came right from Hercules many years ago. Comes with a Z-shaped adapter for the carb that moves it down lower to let the manifold fit. Why Hercules made the new one so different is beyond me? Only one I have ever seen like it.
This little crawler is a workhorse. Has a Ford Model A aux transmission and engine runs great (when it runs). Without the aux trans, I could not do half the work. Much of the hard pushing is in low-low.
Besides the points getting oxidized, I have had two coils go bad and that makes me think the new parts are not very good quality. One coil was in the Fairbanks Morse mag and the other in the Wico. Might both come from the same place though.
Note - this mag is very hard to get to. If it was out in the open, it would not be such a big deal. This crawler has a dozer and loader frame on it with a lot of extra steel in the way. It also has a special exhaust manifold that drops the carb down lower then OEM and it nearly sits right against the magneto. It was a replacement exhaust manifold kit that came right from Hercules many years ago. Comes with a Z-shaped adapter for the carb that moves it down lower to let the manifold fit. Why Hercules made the new one so different is beyond me? Only one I have ever seen like it.
This little crawler is a workhorse. Has a Ford Model A aux transmission and engine runs great (when it runs). Without the aux trans, I could not do half the work. Much of the hard pushing is in low-low.
Besides the points getting oxidized, I have had two coils go bad and that makes me think the new parts are not very good quality. One coil was in the Fairbanks Morse mag and the other in the Wico. Might both come from the same place though.
I wonder if there are any aircraft points that would fit? I know the quality of airplane parts is a lot higher than that of cars and tractors. Might be worth looking into.
I've seen articles in Farm Show magazine of guys who bypassed their mag coils and used an external tractor coil and battery ignition, just using the old mag as a distributor. Not sure that would solve it either.
On my various mag fired units, like my Gravelys, sealing the mag up moisture tight has helped a lot. A little condensation can screw up an otherwise good mag.
TomA in CA
Member
My second tractor,circa 1960, an Oliver HG had a distributor, same case as a mag, coil inside I believe. It was 6 V system. I never had a problem with it in all the years I had it. I too think the problem is no good points are available anymore. I reface old ones if they are good. I built a homemade blade for it. I never found first gear too fast as others say. Used it for dozing, mowing hay, raking hay. It was my ATV before there were ATVs. I wish I had never sold it.
With an original HG, rev the engine up high enough to make good power and it has a ground speed of 2 MPH. Way too fast for some types of work. It was designed for row-crop farm work, not pushing dirt. That is why Oliver came up with the aux-trans kit when these things became dirt movers instead of ag-machines.
Easy test on mine. I was just trying to push out a stump. Low range, 2nd gear and the engine lacked power to push. Low range, 1st gear, it did it. If I had put the aux in 3rd, and original trans in 1st - not a chance (that puts it back to original speed).
When I put it in low-low, it runs 6/10 of a MPH at working engine speed - just like a John Deere 420 in 1st (Deere 420 is 7/8 MPH in 1st).
Easy test on mine. I was just trying to push out a stump. Low range, 2nd gear and the engine lacked power to push. Low range, 1st gear, it did it. If I had put the aux in 3rd, and original trans in 1st - not a chance (that puts it back to original speed).
When I put it in low-low, it runs 6/10 of a MPH at working engine speed - just like a John Deere 420 in 1st (Deere 420 is 7/8 MPH in 1st).
It sounds like you are getting moisture into the mag, that is what is killing the points and coils. Are all the cover gaskets in place and intact? On my MD that sits outside, I ran a thin layer of silicone sealer on the coil cover and points compartment surfaces before assembly, and I never have any mag problems, and it sits out under a tarp 24/7.
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
That's a Delco distributor that has a right angle drive. An IH distributor looks similar to an IH H4 magneto.
Would the vent holes in you magneto be plugged with dirt? If they are condensation will collect in your magneto.
Would the vent holes in you magneto be plugged with dirt? If they are condensation will collect in your magneto.
tractorguy2
Well-known Member
Here is a photo of an IH distributor. Height will not be a problem. Might be slightly longer than your magneto. You will have to measure.
john *.?-!.* cub owner
Well-known Member
tried that with an IH J4 magneto (cub), and could never get it to fire
I wondered if anyone had tried it with a smaller sized tractor.
You helped me with the timing on my Cub on another site.
Not sure if you remember that or not, but you did.
I had to re-time the governor to get it right, but right it is.
I have no need for EI on that one. That mag is HOT!
You probably know how I know that. LOL
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
A couple of magnets on the harmonic balancer. A Pertronic magnetic pickup. External 12V coil tied into centre of mag rotor cap.
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