7/11/1940 - The beginnings of the Jeep

Today in 1940 the US Army made a request for bids to replace it's outdated light vehicles.
Link

Yes and American Bantam got gypped.

maybe, but also important was neither bantam, or willys had the production facilities to make enough numbers of the vehicles, for ww11, after prototypes, all 3 manufactures made basically the same vehicle, taking the strong points of all 3 models of prototypes, most wwll war machinery was the same way, different manufactures making the same machine, who made the tank didnt mater, as long as the soldier had the tank , trucks were different, while trucks within each weight class had to meet the gov rules, each manufacture was allowed some tolerance, example white, Studebaker, gmc ect did use their own cabs, and parts, the truck had to meet the same spec across the manufactures , im not sure how this related to engines, axles were probably all the same as most are today

On that "had the same specs" thing, ever read the spec for a "Deuce and a Half" (2 ? ton truck). Real bland. Nothing about how the fenders would be shaped nor the hood and on and on. For a little kid that had his armies, like most I'd assume, it really took the zing out of the playground. Course when you grew up and the draft was at your door step and all, the real thing was no playground.

Not trying to start a fight, just some info many dont know about. Just to add Minneapolis Moline made military "jeeps" as well, and where the original name came from, which was from the Popeye cartoon. MMs claims were ignored by the FTC. https://www.google.com/search?q=minneapolis+moline+jeep&rlz=1C1EODB_enUS583US628&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjViciRo4HVAhUGdj4KHdJ_DxkQsAQINA&biw=1422&bih=684&dpr=1.13#imgrc=gTFIW7XzV8EqWM: https://www.google.com/search?q=minneapolis+moline+jeep&rlz=1C1EODB_enUS583US628&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjViciRo4HVAhUGdj4KHdJ_DxkQsAQINA&biw=1422&bih=684&dpr=1.13#imgrc=gTFIW7XzV8EqWM:

Here is one of the photos in my last reply.

According to the OED - pretty much the "Supreme Court" of word origins - "Jeep" likely comes from "G.P." being said as word (General Purpose). As also used in a Popeye cartoon.

Mahindra tractors of India also made military Jeeps. I suppose several tractor companies did.

I still say Bantam got a raw deal. They were the only company to meet the design deadline and got awarded no contracts to build.

My father-in-law was a Ford engineer when Ford changed the Jeep to an independent front axle design. He told me that several people were killed from front axle failures in the new design. How true that is I do not know but I have not seen any official reports about it.

The Ford version built in the 1960's did use an independent suspension, but it was the rear suspension that gave trouble. The M151 and M151A1 used an A arm setup that could fold under in turns causing a rollover. The M151A2 version had a different design and was much safer, but it was soon replaced by the HMMWV. I owned several of the M151's over the years, really neat little vehicles. I also drove one for a few months in Germany in 1987 before I got a HMMWV.

Saw this yesterday.
Jeep assy

That makes sense. It was an "in house" Ford engineer story told to me 30 years ago. I just remember the part about Ford adding independent suspension and having it fold in on itself. I just assumed it was the front but that is my error. I figure anything my father-in-law told me was accurate.

Alan K,
Who made that 4x4 in your pic?

that one came from the minniapolis - molene contract ,.. i recall seeing them often in yellow at indiana state parks and army drab green

American Bantam didn't have capacity to build the number of Jeeps needed, Willys barely had enough capacity at time of initial first lot contract as Ford was sort of busy with other military contracts. Ford finished a contract for reduction gears for aircraft engines(?) and had some extra capacity then a year later. About that time a quick need for small trailers request for bids was made by army- some of officers that had worked with bantam in development of jeep. Trailer specs had must use jeep wheels, builder must have some hubs in stock for first batch, body sheet metal sizing for back no wider than Jeep for shipping, storage- and submit sample in about a week/10 days. Bantam seemed to have gotten paperwork on friday morning - other possible bidders didn't get their notice until monday afternoon or tuesday morning. Bantam had enough leftover bits and pieces to put together the sample trailer and assure 10 more by middle of week with a weekend assembly while others were checking parts availability- Bantam got contract to build modest number of utility trailers that took 80% of their capacity and got a early delivery bonus for the specs being met so fast( nobody else seemed to have the parts as specified on shelf) made enough money to last the war anyway with some other R&D work, minor projects. The implication that some Army officers thought that Bantam deserved something for all the help they'd provided army has been noted before- along with the rigged bid favoring one particular maker suggestions. The Utility trailer from Bantam was a very useful size- could be towed by Jeep while the larger trailers need dodge weapons Carrier of other truck-- and if other large truck was just a little short of cargo space, the small trailer was just right size for final box 1/4 tons worth of goods. Good for a Mortar or heavy machine gun, generator, various other small crew devices. Still a useful size- a Japanese pickup bed from a frontend crash or blown engine can be made into very handy sized trailer- after noon with a torch, cutting wheel and a trailer coupler, some 6011 rod and you don't need to buy a new vehicle for the dirty work- Toyota and some other Jap wheel with 6 bolts are very good for road-- wheel interchange of Bantam trailer with new Jeep was early carry spare for both vehicle and trailer. RN

Had to set thru a few training films when we changed from M38 to M151 because of the roll over problem.

The rear is not independent suspension.

Had WW2 not been going on in Europe the Army would have taken a much more leisurely approach to their procurement of a new vehicle. Bantam may have been able to keep the contract if the army had placed its orders in small lots as they had for most things in the 1920s and 1930s but the build up was on by 1940. The army was quickly becoming fully mechanized (I believe the only one in WW2 that was) and they needed lots of new vehicles.

Yes, it is a Minneapolis Moline, model NTX if I remember correctly. I believe they made 3 different models of military vehicles. The largest was a 6 wheeled canvas back one. I think there is one of them left in the world. I had heard stories that several were shipped to the border of Turkey during WW2.