over fueling 354 perkins

this is a recurring problem ,,and i dont want it to mess me up again this fall. i need diesel tech fellas that are familiar with a perkins problem ,.. and maybe i do not have a problem ?,,,,Now ???? , so here goes ,. because scarcely a drop is coming out of it,,,. i have the fuel return line disconnected just draining on the ground as i piddle with a few acres of wheat for my neighbor . i would bet that scarcely a water bottle has been dript out in a hour of running,,. Now here is the History of this durn thing //// 4 times in 5 yrs the injector pump has sheared the rotor off,.. the last 3 times i complained to the rebuild shop that it appears to be over fueling,. my man in seymour ind sends this pump out ,, and i began to lose confidence 2 rebuilds ago.. the last= time the injector pump does not seem to be over fueling as bad ,, and sadly each time his rebuilder charged me Parts only ,,..each time for a broken rotor stating that water caused this ,well i don't know BULLLONEY !!!,. each time i changed out filters and never found the slightest bit of water in the bowls or any likely place it could be found ,we all gathered intelligence here on the forum and it was mentioned to chek the fuel returrns , the thought was that if the returns are stopt < > plugged /then the pump could harmonize /rattle and shear the rotor from back pressure ??? ,,. i have not even seen what the little rascal loox like . and i have time and again ,cheked the line to the tank ,,. IT is clear and whistle blow thru with no resistance whatsoever , , the return lines have been loosened on all injectors and when the motor running scarcely a drop of fuel comes out and barely dampens the area with fuel around the base of the injectors, there is some evidence of fuel , Maybe This is the Nature of a Perkins pump ,,. but that pump return is not acting at all like the 4020 deere , or any of my Case Diesels fuel return lines,,. i have loosened the return lines and scarcely a return drop anywhere after 10 minutes idling and moving around heads just looking for a problem , there should be fuel laying all over the floor of the engine compartment ,creating a fire hazard ,, there is none and another thing,,.. after 30 days the pump will loose prime and require repriming or a ether shot to bring it back ,,.. but that has been a likely problem with a less than perfect seal at the filters that iscommon to these combines with long fuel draws , lift pumps and the in line filter rite out of the tank ,,. please ask me more questions because i needto get to the bottom of this this is making me miserable worrying this 750 is gonna let me down again

There should be more return fuel back to the tank IF the bleed orifice is open on top of the filter base. Some Perkins combine applications have two, one bleed line on each filter, going to the injector bleed off return line. Just using the hand primer should have fuel going back to return. Don't understand the rotor seizing trouble, plugged return side would shut the injection pump down, and keep it from running. Far as over fueling goes, is the full load fuel setting where it should be? Perkins engine applications I've seen never ate pump hydraulic heads like that..

glad to hear from you,, thank you for bringing up that possible problem , i neglected to chek the bleed off lines from the filters,, My Bad.i always thought that the blled off would be only from the injectors ,, i will chek that return lines at the filters ,and report back ,.,..ALSO ,,QUESTION ,, normally do the perkins injectors have very little returns ??/ thank you, jim

Any inward opening injector will have little return fuel when working right. Rotary pumps have more return to help cool and lube the pump internal cam ring and rollers. There's one more thing that should be checked. If NAPA/WIX filters are used MAKE SURE the filter top outer groove DOES NOT have an O ring in it. That's the filter inlet, I've seen several times where filters have been changed and an extra O ring has been put in that groove by mistake, either shutting off completely or severely restricting fuel flow. Top of filter is sealed by the base groove O ring. Had a Ford TW 35 on the dyno just this spring, owner drove it five miles. Pulled OK on the dyno about ten seconds, then lost power, and died. Asked if he replaced the filters, yup. Did you put the O rings where they belong? Found out there was NO base O ring, but one in the filter groove. Told him he's lucky it even made it here. Power came back just fine when the filters were installed correctly..

makes sense ,,. , i wonder if i got a extra gasket plugging that outlet return off ,, kinda stands to reason for the pump bleeding off too,...,. , aint the 1st time i had 2 gaskets trying to make the seal ,, and yes , i have pluged the fuel inlet that time , just enuf to let the thing starve for fuel and it would start and run ,,,and of course drive me crazy because i was to stupid and untriained to diagnose the problem ,.. sometimes i think i am my own worst enemy with a visegrip in his hands ,thank you, Diesel Tech, for helping me clarify my problem , sounds like even if weather permits combining , i MUST chek those gaskets and return lines 1st ,NO Matter WHAT !!, sure dont wanna snap another durn totor

the perkins we had was the same, nearly no return fuel...but we never had pump problems. I think ours was roosa-master pump

As for your bleed back, go through and replace every "olive" on the fuel lines, that usually helps on a Massey.

Ross

This may or may not be your problem , BUT here goes , back when i was jockying equipment and fixen tractors and STUFF i was at and Auctioneer friend of mine sale one day and i was there to buy tractors and anything that might work for me , He had his neighbors 750 Massey combine with both heads and a header cart to sell . A nice low hour machine as it had around 1850 hours and it showed it . when they went to start it on a brisk March morning she would not turn over as the batterys were dead and his kid brought down a ford ranger and tried to jump it with K Mart jumper cables . Well that was a no go and Gary said that it ran like a swiss watch and would stand behind it and have it up and running before you came and picked it up . so they started off and NO BODY would put a bid on it , ya can't sell something if no body bid . So i threw a bid in and trust me it was a cheap bid and Gary took my bid and some other guy jumped in and it was off to the races . At my last bid of 2850 this other guy dropped like a rock and walked away and i now owned a super nice 750 Massey not a silver cab but it was one of the last white cabs with the AT 6 354 and it was a hydro came with and 1163 corn head and a 1859 U2 16 footer and a header cart . When i went to pick it up Gary told me that there was something wrong with it as they charged the batterys but something was draining them over night I told him that i would figure that out when i got it home and we jumped it off my truck and drove onto the lowboy and it was Ohio bound . The problem there was a short in the Alt. I sold that combine to a good friend . well My friend called when he was getting ready to do wheat and asked if i would come up and help set it up , so i did and i was the first to run it . half way around the field she started to stave for fuel and died . I could here the lift pump pumping BUT she would not start so i bleed the filters and got it going and before i made it all the way around the field she stopped again same thing . what was happing was the funnel shaped screen in the tank on the end of the sediment bowl was getting plugged with soggy bean dust and shutting off the fuel flow to the pump . Now that was back when diesel fuel was diesel fuel and not the Ultra low sulfer jumk of today so my take on this is that the lask of lube in the fuel and the lack of fuel getting to the pump plus the extra heat in the engine compartment my be a cause of your problems . we pulled the tank off that 750 and i was shocked at the amount of bean dust sludge . There was a good six inches of that junk in the bottom of that tank and the screen on the end of the sediment bowl is about that long . So take a look and see if this is your problem and we add to our fuel Lucas fuel conditioner , we really hate keeping the pump shop supplied with and endless source of income .

I have a 354 that bleeds back after it sets for a few days. what do you mean by "olive"
Gary