You can't fix stupid.........

A 54 year old man was arrested for flying a drone over an active wildfire in Arizona, hindering 14 fire-fighting crews, both ground and air.

He's in the slammer charged with 14 counts of reckless endangerment. They tracked him down by photos he posted on Facebook. Must have been real proud of himself.

Goose would appreciate f you would get the word out on a john deere one way plow model 2200 with 24 inch blades also can't contact TX Jim

Goose While I agree that he should not be flying the drone in that area BUT how does he hinder the crews with a drone????? A darn drone is only a few feet across at the largest and they are not that tough. You see birds knocking them down. So I would like to see the LEGAL wandering they are doing to get to were he "endangered" 14 fire fighting crews??????

What worries me more is the GOVERNEMENT not wanting anyone BUT THEM having anyway to film/see what they are doing. It is a lot easier to cover up your screw up if you have the only record of them happening. It is kind of like were a cop tells you to quit videoing them while they are interacting with you or the public. Sure easier to cover up the government wrong doing if there is no video of it happening.

Freedom of the press helped protect our liberties in the centuries past. Freedom to electronically film/video ALL government actions is the next step in that safe guard in the future.

So I am always suspicious when any level of the government says we can't view what is going on. Be that in person or electronically. Makes me wonder what they do not want people seeing them doing.

So if a citizen flying a drone is going to be illegal around fire fighting crews then what about over sight of what is being done. We know the track record of the government doing the right thing is very mixed. Sometimes it gets it very right and other times totally wrong.

Water bomber planes are scared of drones. A drone going through the windshield would not be good.

If you were in a plane bringing in water, flying lower and slower than the recommended rating of the craft for emergency purposes (that means more likely to stall), than you might appreciate sucking a drone into the Intake of an engine, or getting it wrapped up in the prop.
just my thoughts.

Was supposed to say...you might NOT want a drone sucked in your intake.

Here's the way of thinking - an unknown ANYTHING in an emergency area is just one more unknown for emergency crews to deal with. This happened to be an aerial device, not known about by emergency crews, and therefore this knucklehead could have flown the drone up high and interfered with flight operations. If this drone had caused the aircraft to crash, or even to leave the area abruptly, then there is a chance that ground crews could have lost out on potentially life-saving air drops!

Whether this idiot was getting material for his facebook page or wanting to sell it to the news media, there are proper channels to go through, and they are there for everyone's safety. As it was, he was an extreme safety hazard. He didn't think to notify Command or anyone else of his arrival OR intentions, and they had no way to make sure he wasn't in their way or, worse yet, someone out there "trying" to cause trouble. Bad, BAD situation!!

14 "crews"? No, 14 counts, which equals 14 personnel. These 14 personnel could have been two crews or 6 crews, depending on crew size. There were 1 or 2 persons in the chopper; most likely two. Then the ground crew could have consisted of one or more smaller crews all there together, or in the same area.

Wildfires are notorious for having too few people out fighting the blazes. And unfortunately, many large wildfires claim multiple lives. That's how dangerous they are! So when some yahoo decides to come out of nowhere and do his own thing, he's putting the emergency crews in even more danger!

Drones have so much potential for abuse and creating havoc they'll be added to the list of things on insurance policies they don't insure or owners will have to have a special
rider or policy to be covered.

I'm not a facebook or tweeter person. I think social media does bring out STUPID people.

One kid robs a gas station, them posts pics of the cash.

A woman at the grand canyon taking a selfie, backs up, falls to her death.

You can't fix stupid or Narcissistic personality disorder.

Take it from a retired helicopter pilot that used to do fire fighting, a drone would be disasters in a collision could come right thur the windshield damage a tail rotor might jam the flight controls etc I am so glad I;m not out there now with stupid people an their drones trying to get pictures to post. When your hauling water with a bucket basically the flying is automatic your busy looking where to drop the water who needs it your watching the fire not looking around for crap in the sky, it was unnerving when a stupid news helicopter would try to zoom in to get a good picture of a water drop and they were soon grounded.
GB in MN

Let me guess. You own a drone and think you have a God given right to fly it whenever and wherever you want, regardless of whether it compromises the safety of other people just trying to do their jobs.

I understand the drone being a serious hazard for aircraft working on the fire. And the fella was wrong for that!

I think it is silly to say it was any kind of hazard to the ground crews. That is over reach/ over reaction.

Paul

Goose I do not own a drone and really do not want them flying over my PERSONAL property. I am just concerned with seemly heavy handed responses by law enforcement.

I was a member of a volunteer fire department for years and have been involved in local government. They both needed the scrutiny of the public knowing what they were doing. The egos running amuck breed elitism and corruption. The "we know better than you" attitude was a bigger danger than any drone.

Your response proves my point.

(quoted from post at 11:01:29 07/02/17) I understand the drone being a serious hazard for aircraft working on the fire. And the fella was wrong for that!

I think it is silly to say it was any kind of hazard to the ground crews. That is over reach/ over reaction.

Paul

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Silly it is not, I can count more times then I have fingers on both hands that I dropped water on ground crew guys when things started going wrong, this was in MN / Wis not out west but is similar I remember one time in April very hot 80+*F near Sandstone, Mn had a hot fire burnig in Aspen regrowth approx 15 / 20 ft tall and the fire crowned in the Aspen the was a fire plow operator on a 450 JD and he was going to be in trouble I dropped 2 100 gal buckets of water on him and the 450 and he was able to get turned an out of there at the end of the he found me and shook my hand profusely and thanked many times
and that is how ground crews are at risk, fighting wid fires is not like fight structure fire the fire line is constantly moving winds are unpredictable, I've seen big cattail swamps with flame 30 to 50' and thick black smoke where you couldn't see.
GB in Mn

You can't fix stupid but keeping stupid in jail a few days sure can't do stupid any harm. Throw the book at him or anyone else intentionally putting themselves or property closer rather than farther from emergency activity.

(quoted from post at 12:12:16 07/02/17)

(quoted from post at 11:01:29 07/02/17) I understand the drone being a serious hazard for aircraft working on the fire. And the fella was wrong for that!

I think it is silly to say it was any kind of hazard to the ground crews. That is over reach/ over reaction.

Paul

Click to expand...

Silly it is not, I can count more times then I have fingers on both hands that I dropped water on ground crew guys when things started going wrong, this was in MN / Wis not out west but is similar I remember one time in April very hot 80+*F near Sandstone, Mn had a hot fire burnig in Aspen regrowth approx 15 / 20 ft tall and the fire crowned in the Aspen the was a fire plow operator on a 450 JD and he was going to be in trouble I dropped 2 100 gal buckets of water on him and the 450 and he was able to get turned an out of there at the end of the he found me and shook my hand profusely and thanked many times
and that is how ground crews are at risk, fighting wid fires is not like fight structure fire the fire line is constantly moving winds are unpredictable, I've seen big cattail swamps with flame 30 to 50' and thick black smoke where you couldn't see.
GB in Mn

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I couldn't have said it better!

I've been very fortunate in that the largest wildfire I've fought was only a couple hundred acres, was flat ground, and the winds were nearly calm. Wasn't even a need then for air support. But through training, I've learned the same exact things that GB is saying.

Paul, please take a few minutes to read this article. It's about a fire in 2013 that took the lives of 19 firefighters. There was one survivor out of that crew. One!! The difference between live and death is very often a single piece of equipment, or a single crew that is not where they are expected when expected. Here's the article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yarnell_Hill_Fire
Now, the one difference in this article and what we're talking about here is, I don't think these crews died specifically because their air support was not there. Sounds like they might have been working an area where air support was not foreseen, then conditions changed and they were overcome by fire. But make no mistake, I can find articles that specifically mention firefighters who died because air support could not be there when needed.

In ALL fire fighting, nobody ever goes in without a Plan of Attack. Command has to know what resources are available, and then distribute those resources so as to best fight the blaze. If any one of these resources becomes somehow incapacitated and doesn't show up, other crews can and have died! Same thing in structural - crews go into a building with a plan, but then something bad happens without warning. Maybe someone is storing illegal explosives, huge amounts of munitions, even meth labs! Suddenly, these firefighters who are inside a burning building suddenly have no way out. They can become disoriented, as walls that were once there as landmarks are now gone. The floor they just walked over may suddenly be missing.

And you also need to understand that real-world firefighting is NOTHING like it is on TV. If they tried to film a movie with real-world fire, there wouldn't be much to see. In Sillywood (ok, ok...Hollywood), they burn natural gas and LP gas. What smoke you see is coming from smoke generators. The actors are in about as much danger as they are when stepping out of their bathtub at home. It's a whole different ballgame out there!

Ah, here's what I was looking for. Please read the link below. To make it easier, scroll down to the section titled, [b:8cc4560b19]Incidents[/b:8cc4560b19]. There, you will read about (2) different times that aerial fire fighting aircraft went down during operations. When this happens, ground crews can be in some very hairy situations and be very much needing those water drops. And when they don't arrive, the ground crews get in one heck of a predicament! That section is very brief - barely over 4 lines. But maybe now one can understand just how vital each part of the operation is to all other parts. Having a drone in the sky during such operations is EXTREMELY bad news!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helitack

The FAA is trying to figure out a way to register and require remote identification of drones. Once that happens it might not fix stupid, but it sure will make it easier to catch stupid.
FAA

(quoted from post at 11:01:29 07/02/17) I understand the drone being a serious hazard for aircraft working on the fire. And the fella was wrong for that!

I think it is silly to say it was any kind of hazard to the ground crews. That is over reach/ over reaction.

Paul

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here is a major increase in hazard to ground crews, as a DRONE SIGHTING IMMEDIATELY GROUNDS ALL AIRCRAFT in the vicinity. If you think that doesn't increase danger to ground crew then you've certainly never fought wildfire. Heavy-handed? If I see some moron flying a drone around a wildfire his survivors had better hope his life insurance is paid up.

As a member of AOPA (Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association) for 22 years only recently have I considered separating myself from the organization. They have continued to want to be bigger part of Drone operations, & training. I have written scathing letters in a futile attempt to steer them away from having anything to do with drones. I feel eventually AOPA will be sued for millions of $'s over something stupid like this. People are not going to follow the rules especially when there is little, or no danger of injury or death to themselves!!! Go to Jail... HAA! A good attorney can get anybody out of anything, & lay blame somewhere else. (O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony ring a bell). My membership is up this month, & I just don't know if I will renew.

A drone can be home built using parts from hobby shops. No way they can make those people register if they don't want to!

(quoted from post at 21:03:13 07/02/17) As a member of AOPA (Aircraft Owners & Pilots Association) for 22 years only recently have I considered separating myself from the organization. They have continued to want to be bigger part of Drone operations, & training. I have written scathing letters in a futile attempt to steer them away from having anything to do with drones. I feel eventually AOPA will be sued for millions of $'s over something stupid like this. People are not going to follow the rules especially when there is little, or no danger of injury or death to themselves!!! Go to Jail... HAA! A good attorney can get anybody out of anything, & lay blame somewhere else. (O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony ring a bell). My membership is up this month, & I just don't know if I will renew.

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Hi I was a member for 40+ yrs but no more told them to take a hike along with EAA
GB in MN