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Loading tractor tyres with fluid.

F

Farmall706guy

Member
I wanted to add weight to my tires for along time. I understand that water doesn't weigh nearly as much as sodium chloride mixed in, but when i have 110 gallons of water to put in a tyre, with water
being at 7-8 Lb's a gallon, thats 770 - 880 Lb's per tyre, thats quite a bit of weight. mixing a good dosage of Chloride would give me about 1100 to 1200 Lb's. i don't really care about that extra
amount, but I just want to be able to make sure the water doesn't freeze in the tyre during winter, gets down to 10 degrees fahrenheit... to load my tires with cc it would cost about 250$ for 300 Lb's
of CC. All i want is just water in my tires because i can't afford 500$ of chloride. antifreeze is to expensive for 60 gallons of it, about how much salt of chloride or what ever solution would i need to
make sure my tires don't freeze solid in the winter? i want it all water but just enough of what ever compound i need to keep it a liquid or gel. just not a pure solid.. thanks anyone. sorry if i sounded
grouchy.
 
Let me rephrase something, I found out that it will only cost me 100$ to load both tires with 300 Lb's of salt, but thats corrosive, ill do it, but can i get away with only putting like 50 Lb's in each tire with 110 gallons of water to prevent freezing? I want as little salt as possible. thanks, keep the concentration of the solution water low. two brand new 18.4-38's with new tubes and clean painted rims. thanks.
 
CaCL is the cheapest way to add weight. Rust issue is waaay overblown. If the tire or stem leaks, then fix it. It doesn"t rust through a rim overnight.
 
Two things

First shop around on getting your tires loaded... That price you quoted for calcium seems really high.

I just had a tire the same size mounted on a rim bought the tube and new valve stem paid for the mounting and had it loaded with calcium and the labor and materials came to $150 out the door for everything on one wheel... That's mounting, tube, valve stem, and calcium and tax.

Second, I think your walking a fine line of it gets down to 10 degrees and your trying to get by with salt to go cheap. If it freezes could crack or split the rim and rubber now your down a machine and stuck paying for everything new.

One thing you may want to consider, some folks around here buy windshield washer fluid in a 55gallon drum cheap and use that.
 
(quoted from post at 14:41:02 06/05/17) I wanted to add weight to my tires for along time. I understand that water doesn't weigh nearly as much as sodium chloride mixed in, but when i have 110 gallons of water to put in a tyre, with water
being at 7-8 Lb's a gallon, thats 770 - 880 Lb's per tyre, thats quite a bit of weight. mixing a good dosage of Chloride would give me about 1100 to 1200 Lb's. i don't really care about that extra
amount, but I just want to be able to make sure the water doesn't freeze in the tyre during winter, gets down to 10 degrees fahrenheit... to load my tires with cc it would cost about 250$ for 300 Lb's
of CC. All i want is just water in my tires because i can't afford 500$ of chloride. antifreeze is to expensive for 60 gallons of it, about how much salt of chloride or what ever solution would i need to
make sure my tires don't freeze solid in the winter? i want it all water but just enough of what ever compound i need to keep it a liquid or gel. just not a pure solid.. thanks anyone. sorry if i sounded
grouchy.
Click to expand...

Calcium Chloride was used in the bad old days when it was all there was, nobody knew any better and nobody cared what it cost in the future if it was the cheapest today.
Diluted windshield washer fluid is lots good. Doesn't turn the tractor into a corroded mass of metal if the tire is holed or a valve stem is broken off.
 
There is a tire store in Sullivan Indiana. Their business is mostly tractors some car/truck.

They have hundreds of gallons of washer fluid they put in tractor tires.

May want to check out a tire store that works on tractor tires.
 
A little calcium chloride can go a long way, both as freeze protection, and in corrosion. It isn't the big leaks that make for rusted out rims, but the small ones that go unnoticed for months, or the replaced tube put on a rim that got salted that was not thoroughly washed and dried before re-assembly. Even without full "freeze protection", it takes a lotta cold to bring it to 'stiff slush' - not a problem if you don't use the tractor on the very coldest days. Even so, there are better options.

One is iron weights - nothing to leak out of a tire (er, "tyre"), but air, and makes handling tire/rim a WHOLE lot easier when that need arises.

Another is beet juice (in many places called "rim guard") - non toxic, not corrosive, but I'm told it does not mix at all with calcium - it gels.

Washer fluid and used antifreeze (ethylene glycol with a laundry list of other additives) have also been suggested here (and other places), but both are environmentally toxic, even more so than calcium, which will kill vegetation. A hundred gallons of calcium in a field when you poke a tire on an old horse shoe isn't exactly helpful to producing crops on that spot. A hundred gallons of antifreeze or washer fluid spilled is legally required to be reported as a haz-mat spill. I personally don't want to fill a tire with a legal problem waiting to happen, to say nothing about my commitment to making this world a little better for my being here, not worse.
 
i went to local gas stations and got all the old antifreeze i could use for free--evidently they have to pay to get rid of it
i tested it and its good to -20F
 

CaCl does not ruin rims. Procrastination does. In fact CaCl is now routinely put in tubeless tires. That's right tubeless tires. It will corrode the rim just a tiny amount and then all of the oxygen is used up. There is no rusting or corrosion taking place because in order for the steel to oxidize there needs to be oxygen present. So the only way to have CaCl ruin your rims is to give it regular additions of oxygen. Yes, people actually do that. It comes under the heading of procrastination. I have a rim on tractor that had CaCl in the tire for twelve years with no tube. It was discolored on the inside. That's it.
 
I use wiper fluid winter grade in my tires. If you watch sometime you can find it on sale for around a buck a gallon or if you ask around you might be able to get in in bulk and save even more. Wiper fluid is a tad bit over 8lbs per gal and does not cause the rust problems like CACL does
 
I say put it in at full strength and just pay atention that you do not get a slow leak and let it go. If it does get a slow leak fix it and clean everything up good while you fix that leak. And if you do things right you will not live long enough for the rims to rust out. AND I DO NOT KNOW HOW OLD YOU ARE, 20 years or 80 years. properly maintain them and you will neve have to think about a rusted out rim. And that antifreese if you would happen to pumture a tire and lost it you could loose your pet dog or a neighbors and do you want the lawsuit if that happens so stay away from poison that salt is not a poision. True it may dedden the ground for a couple years but it will come back but not from the poison antifreeze.
 
i run 5 lbs calcium chloride flakes per gallon. that gives the most bang fer yer buck. when you mix, it gets hot , let it cool for half a day or so before loading the tires. stir with a wood paddle to mix. dont use a drill either battery or plug in. the salt vapors dont get along with electricity. if yer tire gets a leak, fix it right away. i run calcium in about 7 of my tractors.
 
Do something like run over a deer antler out in a field and you'll wish you never used CaCl after it sprays all over you and your tractor.Methanol or Beet Juice would be my choice,but I avoid
fluid if at all possible.
 
(quoted from post at 11:46:35 06/05/17) Let me rephrase something, I found out that it will only cost me 100$ to load both tires with 300 Lb's of salt, but thats corrosive, ill do it, but can i get away with only putting like 50 Lb's in each tire with 110 gallons of water to prevent freezing? I want as little salt as possible. thanks, keep the concentration of the solution water low. two brand new 18.4-38's with new tubes and clean painted rims. thanks.
Click to expand...

To your question: 20% Cl Ch by mass (weight) in solution with water will lower the freezing point to approximately 0 degrees F. You stated it gets to 10 degrees F in your area so that should give you some margin. If you do not need to move the tractor when it is 10 degrees then you could use less Cl Ch - I am told freezing does not hurt the tire if you do not use the tractor. Maybe some one has experience with this.

BTW - most freezers are set to 0 degrees F so it is easy to test your solution.
 
Allright this gets beat to death . Another thing you can use. Go check out your local paint store and see if they have straight methanol. Some good old fashion paint or hardware stores carry drums of 5he stuff. And or look for denatured alcohol. Test a couple of mix ratios in your freezer to get it right. Zero degree, "witer mix"! washer fluid is better. I have used the antifreeze also but just keep an eye on it.
 
(quoted from post at 19:04:42 06/05/17) Do something like run over a deer antler out in a field and you'll wish you never used CaCl after it sprays all over you and your tractor.Methanol or Beet Juice would be my choice,but I avoid
fluid if at all possible.
Click to expand...

How would I farm for thirty years without getting a bad leak with CaCL? Yes I have continued to use it these last twenty years. So it looks like you are wrong.
 
Thanks guys, so, how many 50 lb bags of salt would you say i would need to mix in with the 110 gallons of water? sorry i do not know math very well.
 
If and its a huge IF you'll willing to maintain and watch a tire with CaCl in it it'll be fine as you say, but as a practical matter by the hundreds of rotted out rims I've seen
it doesn't work out too well in the real world for whatever reason.I have seen situations where the tube apparently started leaking away from the valve stem and the first
sign of a leak was where fluid was coming out of the rotted place in the rim.
 
I tend to agree that rust issues are way overblown. Even if you get fluid on the rims and do nothing about it, it will be years before it will corrode a rim badly enough to ruin it. My son just replaced to rims on his 88. the tractor was purchased in 1954 and they were the original rims and the tires have always had calcium in them. The last time I replaced the tires on my 1956 JD 420, the valve stem hole was rusted out. Big deal. I welded it shut and drilled a new hole. The issue really is a tempest in a teacup.
 
If you get a leak on a loaded tire, you rarely loose more than a couple of gallons of the fluid even from a deer antler. Just park the tractor with the leak on top and maybe put a jack under the tractor. Also the rusting out of wheels is way overblown. I recently had to replace a wheel on a tractor that has had calcium chloride in it for 20 years and another for 30 years.
 
Cast iron weights cost about $1 per pound. If you have a fluid leak and don't clean and repaint the rim, the rim will likely rust out about 20 to 30 years after you had the leak. Worst case, two new rims twenty plus years in the future would still cost much less than cast iron weights will cost you now.

If you put in calcium chloride (CaCL2) fluid you might as well go full strength: 5 pounds of CaCl2 per gallon. The labor to install fluid is more than the cost of CaCl2 at either part strength or full strength. Who knows who will own that tractor after you or what the climate it will be move to. Check the weight per gallon of alternative fluids, some with alcohol weight less than plain water. Double check with your supplier or a tire store if a gallon of water expands a bit when a lot of CaCl2 is dissolved in it. You may need less water to fill your tires to the top of the rim (75 % full).
 
I guess, one other option i could do is since its the beginning of summer, i can just fill the tires with water, then, like around when fall when things slow down and the lows start dropping into the 30's, i take the water back out and air them back up... maybe that would be an okay option??
 
(quoted from post at 05:02:06 06/06/17) Thanks guys, so, how many 50 lb bags of salt would you say i would need to mix in with the 110 gallons of water? sorry i do not know math very well.
Click to expand...

To lower the freezing point of water to 0 degrees F requires adding 20% calcium chloride. Water weights 8.33 lbs/gal x 110 gal = 916 lbs of water. The amount of calcium chloride required is, 916 lbs x 0.20 = 183 lbs. The number of bags would be, 183 lbs / 50 lbs/bag = 3.7 bags of calcium chloride.
 
NO as you cannot get the last 3-4 gallons out. Watch when the repairman tries lifting out the tube after it has been pumped as far as can be and see how the fluid creates problems pulling the tube out. If you could get it empty it would work but you cannot get it empty and unless you were trying to pull the tube you would never know it was not empty till you felt that Ice chunk in there.
 
(quoted from post at 12:31:00 06/06/17)
Just out of curiosity , how much white sugar would have to be added to water to prevent freezing solid at 0 F ?
Click to expand...

This is an interesting question: I hoped to find the data in chart form, but without success - it must be a secret. The formula using the modal freezing point coefficient (Delta T = 1.86 x modality) seemed to give very high concentration levels.....I didn't trust the answer.

However, maple syrup is said to get very thick but does not freeze at 0 degrees F. Maple syrup is mainly sucrose at a typical concentration of 66% sugar. I decided to test table sugar.

White table sugar is also sucrose. I took equal amounts (100 grams) by weight of table sugar and added it to water. After heating the solution and stirring all the sugar went into solution. Last night I place the mixture in the freezer along with a thermometer. This evening I checked the sugar mixture - it was slushy pudding, but not frozen solid. The thermometer read 10.9 degrees F. Yes, my freezer runs a little warm.

From the above test it would appear a 50% sugar concentration would take you to 11 degrees F, assuming one is okay with slush in the tire. Sugar may be an option for moderate climates and/or if freezing protection is required but, the tractor is not worked in cold temperatures. In bulk, I found sugar priced around $0.50 per pound. There might be "not for human consumption" sugar at a lower cost - I did not check.

I would recommend one do their own testing before trying this.
 
Methanol not cheap, at least $1.50-2.50/gal.

As far as CalCl corrosion -- I've seen more than a few NEW tractor rims start peeling paint around the valve stems after filling with Calcium.
 
How would I farm for thirty years without getting a bad leak with CaCL? Yes I have continued to use it these last twenty years. So it looks like you are wrong.
Click to expand...

Dumb luck. Give it another 10 years.

I just don't understand how any of you can sit there and say that nobody is ever going to run over some unseen obstruction that will puncture the tire and cause a catastrophic geyser of CaCl solution.

Just this last spring my Dad ran over a broken hunting arrow that somehow ended up in the driveway along the back 40. It was camouflage colored on a dirt/grass trail. Good luck seeing it. Lost most of the fluid out of that tire by the time he got back to the barn.

If you follow "onelonleyfarmer" on youtube, just last month he did a video on running over a deer antler with his new-to-him JD 7530, and putting a hole in a very expensive rear tire. Lucky for him, he doesn't run fluid, but he still put a hole in the tire!

Then what about all the people who come on this forum either complaining about thorns puncturing their tires, or asking how to keep thorns from puncturing their tires?

Maybe it hasn't happened to you, but it happens! Don't sit there and say it won't happen.
 
(quoted from post at 05:18:09 06/08/17)
How would I farm for thirty years without getting a bad leak with CaCL? Yes I have continued to use it these last twenty years. So it looks like you are wrong.
Click to expand...

Dumb luck. Give it another 10 years.

I just don't understand how any of you can sit there and say that nobody is ever going to run over some unseen obstruction that will puncture the tire and cause a catastrophic geyser of CaCl solution.

Just this last spring my Dad ran over a broken hunting arrow that somehow ended up in the driveway along the back 40. It was camouflage colored on a dirt/grass trail. Good luck seeing it. Lost most of the fluid out of that tire by the time he got back to the barn.

If you follow "onelonleyfarmer" on youtube, just last month he did a video on running over a deer antler with his new-to-him JD 7530, and putting a hole in a very expensive rear tire. Lucky for him, he doesn't run fluid, but he still put a hole in the tire!

Then what about all the people who come on this forum either complaining about thorns puncturing their tires, or asking how to keep thorns from puncturing their tires?

Maybe it hasn't happened to you, but it happens! Don't sit there and say it won't happen.
Click to expand...

Barnyard, read my post!! I said how could it not happen to me! I had CaCl shooting ten feet high. I got it fixed and refilled. Read the post!!!
 
I had a 1086 split a rear rim on the inside with fluid in the tire. It gave the top of the tranny a cal bath in the process. All of the shifting linkage under the cab rusted tight from that bath. It didn't take me long to get rid of the cal and throw 750 lbs of cast iron on each wheel. The fluid did give more traction though but it rode smoother without the fluid.
 
We have used CaCl solution in tires on our farm. There is only one tractor with that fluid remaining, and it is on the one tractor with a front end loader. We have had it in several tractors, and I don't want to use it again. That last tractor we had it in was used for multiple purposes. On the road, there just was not enough of an air cushion remaining and it rode horribly. We have had a few where some sort of leak or even a catastrophic tire failure occurred and fluid was sprayed all over the place. I prefer cast iron weight over liquid ballast. If you are going to resort to using the liquid ballast, have a plan in place to replace it with cast iron weights. I limped along for 4 years and when it was time to replace the tires, the fluid went "bye-bye" and we installed cast iron wheel weights. When it comes time to replace the tires on that one tractor with the front end loader, I am going to go with cast iron wheel weights. It seems we have a bit of fluid seeping out or around the valve stem every 2 or 3 years. I am prepared to replace the rims, too, as I know they are not in great shape either. It is my dad's tractor, though, and I will end up putting my money where my mouth is at that time and pay the bill to do it right in the end. He had been a pretty hard core person in using liquid ballast. When he rode in my 4640 hauling grain in the fall with it "juiced," he agreed with getting rid of it in that tractor.
 
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