on sprockets with a drive tooth of 30 teeth and driven tooth of 15 teeth how fast plus or minus does the driven shaft turn to drive power shaft. then same thing but with a 33 tooth and 12 for the 3 bar. tooth? Planing on putting a 4 bar real in a 3 bar John Deere hay rake good frame but bad real and good real in 4 bar but bad drive axle. So will the real run slower or faster unless I change the gears as well? The 30-15 is normal for the 4 bar and 33-12 for the 3 bar.
- Thread starter Leroy
- Start date
Gene Dotson
Well-known Member
4 bar would be 2 to 1, or twice the drive speed. The other is 2.75 to 1. 3 bar chain would be faster.
Gene
Gene
Tramway Guy
Well-known Member
Or you could put a 16 or 17 tooth sprocket on the driven shaft and you would be really close to 2:1. Slightly faster with the 16T or slightly slower with the 17T.
I guess I don't see the need to worry about speed. The higher speed on the 3 bar is so the tines are on the bottom of the rake at the same number of times per say 10 feet of travel so it picks up the crop with out skipping any. The 4 bar at the faster speed would have a closer spacing but would not change how it would work. Question would be do they both have the same angle of throw on the baskets. The 3 bar spinning faster might throw the hay farther and be angled different to compensate??
These are a beviled gear set in an enclosed gearbox with the clutch built in the larger gear. So changeing to anything except what was used when these rakes were made is not possible. The 3 bar was built from 1934 to 1947 and then the 4 bar after that to about 1955. The rake will be pulled with horses so slow ground speed. I knew it would I thought make it faster but I don't think it would hurt anything, just make the 4 bar pull a little easier I would think in todays heavy hay., would keep the real at same speed as the 3 bar but just pick up the hay a bit closer together. Just need to clairfy things for the future owner when I get it done.
coonie minnie
Well-known Member
The 4 bar turns slower, because in one revolution, a bar passes 4 times (or every quarter turn). In order for the bar to pass 4 times with a 3 bar, it has to turn 1.33 times. This why the 3 bar turned at a faster speed. I would use the 4 bar gears with the 4 bar, and 3 bar gears with the 3 bar.
Clear as mud, right?
Clear as mud, right?
db4600
Well-known Member
It's been 30 years since I did any raking, but I grew up raking with a 3pt JD side rake. I often wondered why we had a 3pt and all the neighbors had pull type. just the way the money and opportunity shook out.
After I was a seasoned raker and finally had a chance to run a neighbor's rake I realized the advantages of the 3pt rake. With the 3pt you good increase or decrease ground speed while keeping the rake speed where it worked best. To make a short story long increased speed might not be all bad. In heavy grass it could be an advantage. Try the set up and see if it knocks to many leaves of and you can adjust from there.
After I was a seasoned raker and finally had a chance to run a neighbor's rake I realized the advantages of the 3pt rake. With the 3pt you good increase or decrease ground speed while keeping the rake speed where it worked best. To make a short story long increased speed might not be all bad. In heavy grass it could be an advantage. Try the set up and see if it knocks to many leaves of and you can adjust from there.
I am thinking the speed could be good as long as it is not too fast. But the rest of what you said to try and see how it does I cannot do. You see the rakes I work on and in this case what I would put the real in are what either I get for the dealer or what he gets in from any place he can find them are in too bad a shape to sell so I repair them and then return therm to the dealer that then sells them so I never know when they leave his dealership or where they go when they get sold. Just have to keep the dealer happy. I know New Idea both the 3 and 4 bar run the reals at the same speed as I have rebuilt many of them and I think even tho I have not counted the teeth both M Moline rakes I have here working on have same drive gears with one a 3 bar and other a 4 bar. Now case did used different speeds on the 3 bar to 4 bar. Not sure on IHC what they did use. New Idea did have avaible different sprockets avaible to put on real shaft to change speeds but most 3 and 4 bar used same sprocket.
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