Engine will not break in?

tomstractorsandtoys · May 27, 2017

I have a Deere 4020 that we overhauled for a neighbor last summer. We ran it about three hours fixing some other problems and it started putting some oil out the exhaust manifold. We replaced the metal exhaust gaskets that Deere now uses with the old original type and borrowed a dyno and broke in the engine like company said. Told the owner to use it and not let it set and idle. He did not work it at all and called that it is leaking oil out the exhaust manifold gaskets. Went and got it today and now have it on the dyno running at about 90 hp. All the oil is now burnt but we still have to much blowby for a new engine.It is a Reliance engine kit and all the machine shop work (head ect) was done by a top of the line shop.I wonder if the rings are to hard and will never seat? I do not think it is a broken ring as it was leaking out several of the exhaust manifold gaskets.I could pull it down but would have to buy new gaskets and head bolts as we used the new torque to yeild bolts.I read or heard years ago that Cat made a product years ago that you would dump in the air cleaner. It was something like Comet and would cut the rings some? Anybody else ever heard of it? Anyone have any other ideas what to try. Tom

Dieseltech · May 27, 2017

Think it's called Bon-Ami..

tomstractorsandtoys · May 27, 2017

Thanks. I did a quick internet search and there are as many people who swear by it as there are those who swear at it. Not sure what to do. Maybe will just run it for another hour on the dyno and send it home. If it still leaks I might give it some thought.

gab · May 27, 2017

Bon-ami, but only seen it used once close to 50 years ago and it didn't help. I'd be scared of it, think it's pretty abrasive.

Mike M · May 27, 2017

What for engine oil did you put in it ?

tomstractorsandtoys · May 27, 2017

John Deere break in oil.

cuby · May 27, 2017

Back when I worked for a IH dealer {1960s}if a 460-560 gas tractor came in with that problem we would take the air cleaner tube off and let Bon Ami suck through the carb. Dont remember if it helped or not.

rustyfarmall · May 27, 2017

(quoted from post at 13:07:00 05/27/17) Think it's called Bon-Ami..

John Deere dealer I worked for back in the early 70s kept bon-ami right on the parts shelf. Only it was in a container labled "John Deere", and even had a John Deere part number. We used it on a 4010 that wouldn't break in. Must have worked because that tractor never came back in, but the owner was a regular, repeat customer.

Dblair · May 27, 2017

you have other problems could be the ring gap not tight enough .could be they didn't hone the cylinders . don't put dust in your engine .

IHTimmy · May 27, 2017

Did you put a new camshaft and maybe you got a bad camshaft with a bad lobes and it's not let an open far enough and it might've scored a piston or two because if you did it in chassis you would know what the camshaft was like

tomstractorsandtoys · May 27, 2017

Complete out of frame. Machine shop said cam was ok. Tom

300jk · May 27, 2017

My 300 Farmall did that after I did a quick hone and re ring job. When mechanic assembled it he never checked the ring end gap. It was pushing a lot of oil out the breather. Problem was the rings were for a standard bore while mine had oversize sleeves installed. I tore everything down and did a full rebuild myself. Has been great since. Is there a possibility something like this was overlooked ? Just asking ! I wouldn't dump an abrasive in it either. If it is going to help it seat right it will probably end up in places you don't want. Just my opinion.

ohiojim · May 27, 2017

only time I had a problem like that was with chrome rings, took forever to seat them

DGinVT · May 27, 2017

We used to use a small PINCH OF "BORAX" and feed it in thru the air intake. Learned this from an old Cat Technician.

JOCCO · May 27, 2017

My 2 cents worth if you are getting oil by the rings FIND OUT WHY. Yes I have seen many issues chrome rings, improper sized rings, piston ring lands problem. Also seen a sleeve engine fail, bad set of sleeves/pistons. Also what about issues with the head??? (valve seals or guides)

tim s · May 27, 2017

You will need to run "Break in oil" in it Tom,, I have been using ether Deere break in oil or an additive called Erson Cams ZDDP, a 4 oz bottle to a gallon of oil, it seems that this modern engine oil does not have enough Zinc in it and is too "Slippery" to let the rings seat in,, I have done this with 9 Reliance kits this Spring with goo results,,in fact I just put the oil in a 3020 that I just rebuilt..

Welding man · May 27, 2017

In all the engines I have rebuilt I have only had one that the rings didn't seat. A Perkins in a 135 Massey. Owner took it home and put it in a shed and never ran it. Sold it a year later to a friend. Friend called said he had bought it and it was using 2 qts of oil a day raking hay. I told him to bring it in and I would look at it. Tore it down,cylinders were glazed, Honed it, put in a new set of rings, some cheap oil, a bottle of Lucas Break in additive,borrowed a dyno from a friend,hooked it up, broke it in properly and it's still running today and don't use a drop of oil.
I have a good friend that was a field service tech for many years for Caterpillar and he told me that he had used Bon Ami many times on the big Cats to get them to break in.

MtMan · May 27, 2017

I would try to get the rings to seal before I did any thing else. The way I would do it is cover the radiator and run it to get it a little hotter than normal. Be careful not to over heat it. I have done this on engines in the past that I had trouble seating the rings. Good Luck

Kent Petersen · May 27, 2017

Take out to the field and work it like you stole it ,leave that dam Bon Ami in the can

Ray · May 27, 2017

I've overhauled several in my shop over the years.I use all JD parts and standard rings and never had a problem.Never used any break in oil.I know of people who had trouble getting chrome rings to seat.They installed regular rings and the problem was solved.

JD Seller · May 27, 2017

I will second using break in oil and pull the HECK out of it. I have had two tractors give me trouble with wet stacking after overhauls and both where cured with break-in oil plus a heavy load.

tomstractorsandtoys · May 27, 2017

Tim I always use Deere break in oil. I sent it home today after 3 hours on the dyno. All the oil is gone so we will wait and see. Thanks for the ideas. Tom

tim s · May 27, 2017

I was doing the same thing Ray till a few years ago and one would not clean up,, I have been using some kind of break in oil ever since with good results..

2510Paul · May 27, 2017

Nice pictures. That engine really looks nice. Paul

Phil9N3667 · May 27, 2017

Wow, I heard about the Bon Ami back in the '70's from a veteran Mack truck mechanic that'd worked at South Palm Beach Mack. They had a batch of rings/sleeves that were too slick, would idle the engine and suck in a teaspoon or so of Bon Ami at the turbo intake! I rebuilt a Mack 350 HP 4 valve engine years ago, made sure I had no leaks, backed out the door and hooked up to a 45' van load of paper (45000 lbs) and took it on a 30 mile break in trip! Never had a problem with it!

jimg.allentown · May 27, 2017

After reading all of the other comments, here are my thoughts:

Just having been overhauled does not insure that it was put together correctly. It was put together by a human, and humans do occasionally make mistakes. Like not checking for the proper ring size. Like having all of the ring gaps lined up. Like not having a proper hone finish in the cylinder bore. There could also be issues with valve stem seals.

Regarding using any abrasives, I would say use extreme caution. While they may aid in seating the rings more quickly, they may also linger and cause premature wear of the rings/pistons/bores. So, once you put them in, how long does it take to get rid of them?

For diagnosis, I might suggest that you do a leakdown test before taking anything apart. That would help to either prove or disprove a ring problem.

Gambles · May 27, 2017

Speaking of Bon-Ami in the cylinder walls, in 1955, Chevy was having a tough time with their new small-block engine using oil. According to a now-deceased local Chevy mechanic, they were told to by Chevy big-wigs to try some Bon-Ami in the cylinder walls before they would pull it to have new rings installed. Because the Chev small block was getting a bad reputation, Ford actually outsold Chevrolet in 1957. The Bon-Ami story was told by the local mechanic. The internet has some stories about it too, I just take it with a grain of salt.
Back to the OP's problem, I'd try to work the tar out of it before I'd decide on a tear-down.

4020 electrician · May 27, 2017

Rings are backwards?

tomNE · May 27, 2017

chrome moly rings did this exact same thing to me once. I tried everything. Guy was mad as hell. I told him to bring it in and i'd install another rebuilt motor. He said he would but had to haul a load of cattle to omaha first. In no uncertain terms, he told me i was paying for the oil he used. he missed his appt and i heard nothing for a week. I finally called him. he was stammering all over himself. He hadn't used any oil on the omaha trip and hadn't had to add any oil since that trip. I never heard from him again!

RusselAZ · May 27, 2017

Dad had a 65 ferguson in 65 or 66 that needed an engine so he got a new one from the local Massey dealer. It pumped oil like yours for a few hours then he removed the coop oil he was using and put plain ole Non-detergent oil in it like a local engine builder said. In a very few hours of pretty hard work the rings seated and ran well for a good many years.

mmidlam · Jun 2, 2017

Use John Deere break in oil
hastings break in tip

Engine will not break in?

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