2 foot on center or 3 foot on center?

rockyridgefarm · Apr 12, 2017

I'm building a 9'X20' flatbed round/square bale hauler, and I'm using a bunch of steel left over from tearing plows apart. The runners will be 4"X5" square beams from Deere 145a plows and the crossmembers will be 1"X3" solid stock where the coulters were mounted. I'm going to buy some sheets of 1/8" diamond plate for the bed. This thing is going to be overbuilt and heavy because I'm using what I have. If I were buying the steel, I'd be using a lot lighter stuff.

So the question -I have more than enough of the flat steel to center the crossmembers two foot on center, but in the interest of weight, could I put them 3 foot apart? Would the 1/8" steel eventually sag between the members? I'd save 300-400 lbs. It'll probably weigh 2500 lbs when I'm done.

tom stalker · Apr 12, 2017

Depending on wall thickness, beams are about 10 pounds per foot

Difference would be 3 beams @ 9 feet long

Weight difference is approx. 300 pounds

Total loaded weight would determine steel used for me

IMO...with having free steel, go 2 foot centers with saving only 300 pounds of trailer weight

Fordfarmer · Apr 12, 2017

Your floor might not sag with 3' spacing on the cross members, if you were only hauling big squares...but with rounds, the weight
is not spread so evenly... it's almost guaranteed to sag. 300-400 pounds is a small price to pay for the extra support, especially
when you already have the steel.

Adirondack case guy · Apr 12, 2017

The 1/8" diamond plate is going to sag some even on 2' centers after it has been used/abused a while. It is going to take a hefty running gear and tires to carry that bed loaded with round or square bales. If you put 11 1ton bales on you are pushing a 10ton gear just with the hay. I understand your wishes to use what you have, But that is a lot of weight. I went through the same issues building my wood hauler and the rear wagon axle that I had also. We both will know how well we did after they get used a while.
Loren

fixerupper · Apr 12, 2017

1/8" steel flooring will even sag on 24" centers.

da.bees · Apr 12, 2017

Your material is better suited for a dump bed. Really a shame you can't sell your
material for what it's worth and buy lighter stuff that would serve your purpose and save
some weight.

paul · Apr 12, 2017

This appears to be a 'here hold my beer' project, so probably do what you wish. The thing will be too heavy to ever have resale value, and 1/8
inch plate won't be strong enough to be useful for real heavy loads the overbuilt frame might carry. You are in the middle of not getting either a
good lightweight or a good heavy hauler trailer out of this.

As mentioned, it's a shame you can't trade your heavy stuff for more appropriate materials, you would gain a bit if it were a fair market.

Paul

coonie minnie · Apr 12, 2017

The 1 x 3 stuff is some hardened stuff that is difficult to successfully weld to or drill through. It might be free, but I'm afraid you are going to pay for it... The channel frames might be OK, but I'd find
something else for the cross pieces.

rockyridgefarm · Apr 12, 2017

Pictures or it never happened, right? The gear is just holding it up. I'm gonna prowl a few upcoming auctions and see if I can't snag a 12 or 14 ton gear for under it

This is less of a "hold my beer" project and more of a "I need a trailer and am not willing to pay the 6K the dealers want for one". Which is also why I came on here asking for advice. I don't want to have to rebuild it in a few years. I talked with Steel Mart and they said they have 3/16 expanded steel. Would that hold up better than 1/8 diamond plate? The 3" 3/16 angle for the edge and 4 sheets of expanded will cost right around $500

rockyridgefarm · Apr 12, 2017

Frankly, I won't NEED to put any kind of skin over it for rounds or big squares, but I thought it would be more useful with an actual deck - hauling firewood, hauling small squares, Hauling 50lb bags of seed, etc.

jeffcat · Apr 12, 2017

I would also say to put them closer together. Just look at the bed of
a beat up old pick up truck. Where there was suport it most likely is
still straight. The rest looks like crap. That 1/8 Is mighty thin.
Sheet of 3/16 or 1/4 would be much better. You can't beat free though.

Donald Lehman · Apr 12, 2017

Do you have enough of the 1/8 inch to double floor it? If you do, you won't regret it. A 12 ton running gear will be okay, I suppose, however if given my druthers, I'd see if I could find a 14 tonner. I'd consider putting a tandom running gear under it if i could find one. The tandom running gear will pull easier.

jon f mn · Apr 12, 2017

A metal floor will sag almost regardless crossmember spacing. 3' will be as good as 2'. You can help
prevent sagging by warming the sheets til you can just work with them before you weld them on. Then when
they cool they pull tight and that helps stop the sagging.

jon f mn · Apr 12, 2017

Expanded will be much worse for sagging and strength than diamond plate.

Jon Erickson · Apr 12, 2017

Coonie is right. The 1x3 solid bar is hardened and does not weld adequately. I learned the hard way by experience.

coonie minnie · Apr 12, 2017

YEah, it is a shame too. It would be nice stuff if you could work with it. Hopefully he figures it out before he loses some bales on the road.

fixerupper · Apr 12, 2017

If the hardened steel cross members are welded to the stringers you will end up with the welds pulling away from the cross members in short order from the frame flexing. The weld will hold fine but the steel the weld is welded to will break away. This is why the beams are bolted to the plow instead of welded. Do the cross members have bolt holes anywhere close to the stringers? If the cross members have bolt holes to shove a bolt through you could weld a short 3" tall angle iron with a hole drilled in it to the stringers and bolt the angle iron to the cross member. Or set the cross member down on the stringer with the angle iron pieces already bolted to it and then weld the angle iron to the stringer. About the only other way is to bolt the cross members down to the stringers with U bolts but that would be too flexible and the U bolts would be sticking up somewhat. Is there a scrap yard somewhere close where you could sell the plow beams and buy back used 3x3x1/4 square tubing or 4x4x1/8 or 3/6 square tubing?

rockyridgefarm · Apr 12, 2017

What if I cut a slot into the runners and drop the crossmembers halfway into them? That was my original idea, but decided mounting them on top would be easier. Wouldn't take too much time to cut the slots with a metal cutting circular saw.

coonie minnie · Apr 12, 2017

It may make the weld last another 15 minutes or so. Did you price some tubing for cross members? Even some used 3" or 4" pipe would be better than the plow steel- that stuff is very difficult to work with.
If you don't believe us go weld one on, let it cool, and the hit it with the sledge hammer.

We are trying to help you, not just be critical. The beams are good, I would not say they are too heavy. I like that part. But take the rest of the plow steel to the scrap yard, cash the check, and buy
something you can depend on. Like you said, you want to do this once.

jon f mn · Apr 12, 2017

Before you worry too much about welding those beams I would hit them with a drill bit to see if they are
actually hardened steel. You could do a grind test too, there are utube videos ahowing how to tell what
the steel is. I've welded quite a few plow parts and never found them to be particularly hard to weld.
If you can drill them easily with a regular drill bit and get a nice spiral of steel off the bit I would
just weld them with 7018. You will need thick rods and high temps tho due to the thickness.

2 foot on center or 3 foot on center?

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