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Residential Propane Question

K

Koolaid

Member
Looking for some input on a propane tank for our residence.

Have leased 500 gallon tank from a local supplier for 15 years. Recently they have went to a policy where they will not refill our (their) tank until we allow them access into our home to conduct a safety check, which includes recording serial numbers of every propane device in the home. I am okay with a safety inspection, but for some reason them recording serial numbers of devices that they do not own, maintain, and will not accept liability for has struck me the the wrong way.

To that end I'm looking at purchasing a 1000 gallon above ground tank outright. That would allow me to shop around for propane (we have 6 suppliers in the area) as well as potentially only need to fill once in the summer.

Just looking for feedback if anyone has gone the same route or has any advice. I have no intentions of moving from the house. It looks like a new tank, installed is going to be in the $2,500 range. I'd hope to re-coupe some money annually in lower fuel costs plus would have residual value of the tank if I ever wanted to resell. Am I chasing my tail with this deal or on the right track? Thanks.
 
I agree it should not be your suppliers liability for your devices. Serial Numbers would not be given by me (ever). The 500
gallon tank could be cheaper (purchased from others) but might require two fills. If the delivery costs/gallon are the same, it
might be worth considering the smaller tank Jim
 
We own our own 1000 gal tank. At timrimes we have saved quite a bit when I compare what we have paid to what some of my friends who rent tanks and are locked to one supplier have paid.
I personally would not allow the propane co into my house to collect data nor do I believe my appliances are any of their business.
 
That's the trend. I've had the same supplier since 1988. 1- 1000 gal tank ran everything- liquid to the grain dryer, vapor to the house and shop. During some excavation I sacrificed the underground plastic line to the shop, to save the electric line. Had already discussed it with my supplier, and we were going to put a small tank next to the shop if necessary. Sure enough, I busted the line. They came out with the service truck and a tank. Had to look at my shop heater before hooking up. Then refused to hook it up! How happy do you suppose I was, having already discussed the whole situation before hand, and agreeing the small tank was the way to go?! They have been fueling this heater since 1988, and now basically went back on their word, leaving me without shop heat. I shopped other outlets, but their prices were ridiculous. The solution ended up being me buying the tank, and hooking it up myself. Then my regular supplier/drivers would fill it.

I quit the same dealer several years ago when they got fussy about whether they would fill my gasoline tanks, or not. I still buy their propane because of price. And they have set three 1000 gal tanks here over the years, and it hasn't cost me anything.
 
While they have not mentioned anything about the serial numbers, my propane supplier has told me years ago that they were going to have to do an in-house safety check, it's just that they are several years behind. As for the serial numbers, it's probably so they can possibly notify you if they find out that a propane device has a recall.
I am curious about one thing, though. Ask your propane supplier one theoretical question: If you took off or ground off the serial numbers of every propane appliance on your property, would they deny you service?
 
If any of your propane appliances comes up with a critical recall, good chance your LP vendor would catch it sooner than you would and repair/ replace it before you get blown / burned up.

Why would you NOT want them to know the brand/ model / serial number of the appliances their servicing and supplying gas for , that's their job ?
 
Buy your own tank. I have had my own tank for @ 15 years and yes the price goes up an down, but then that happens regardless.....but I am in charge of who I deal with and like you, I have no intention of
moving. We need to keep government out of our business. My 2 cents. ;-)
 
Bought our own tank a couple of years ago. 300 gallon. Had it filled last summer at the low prices and have not used half of it yet.
We heat mostly with wood anyway. Wanted propane in case I could not do the wood due to illness or old age which is creeping up fast. I let them do a safety check when they hooked it up. Fellow I have known for years did it.
He said if they do the check and a problem occurs, it is their fault.
Richard in NW SC
 
Gambles - I did not ask the question that exact way, but I did offer to sign a waiver which was declined. I also asked if they accepted liability for the system by signing off on a safety check and acknowledging the attached components - they would not.

Jon - This provider does not sell or service appliances - therefore it is not a business aspect beyond the insurance contract they maintain requires them to do this. No offer to monitor my appliances for recalls was expressed. My miss-givings primarily come from the general society that I live in today. I would not grant a stranger access to my home and in my eyes without pre-vetting the person they are a stranger to me. If it was a supplier / inspector that I was on a first name basis with I'd have no problems with the request.

Not something I hold against the supplier as it is what they have to do for insurance purposes, but also a deal where it's not a monopolized resource so I can shop around.
 
Liability is the likely the reason for the appliance checks, etc. The government knows your birthday, your driver's license number, your
licence plate registrations, and your insurance company knows your car serial number, etc etc etc. Why would anyone be antsy about a propane
outfit knowing information about your appliances, especially since they could potentially be liable directly or indirectly should something
tragic happen? I suspect that a lot of us are a bit paranoid these days, sort of like when the government arrives to take away all the guns
a person owns and we'll be involved in an OK coral-type shootout.
 
Buy your own. Daughter had regulator problem. Leased tank. Supplier wanted $100 per hour to drive from
nearest service center 200 miles away plus repairs. Buy your own tank and get service from a LOCAL
supplier.
 
(quoted from post at 18:47:53 03/11/17) While they have not mentioned anything about the serial numbers, my propane supplier has told me years ago that they were going to have to do an in-house safety check, it's just that they are several years behind. As for the serial numbers, it's probably so they can possibly notify you if they find out that a propane device has a recall.
I am curious about one thing, though. Ask your propane supplier one theoretical question: If you took off or ground off the serial numbers of every propane appliance on your property, would they deny you service?
Click to expand...

Around here you would be charged with a crime, and that is not just a theory, it really happens to folks. Theft of appliances from houses/apartments under construction is a big business here, and the law says that any item that was given a serial number by the manufacturer needs to have that maintained in such a way as toi remain legible. I have personally drawn warrants for that charge (misdemeanor).
 
Some propane suppliers will only fill their tanks. Some will fill other tanks only if they change the regulators and test the supply
line.

I think the reason they want model and serial number of your appliances is if there is a recall on that appliance they can tell you.
How would you ever know? It is for your safety, as there have been many gas valves on hot water tanks that have been recalled due to
leaks around the control knob.
 
You can buy used 1000 gallon tanks for less than 1000.I bought a 500 for 400 bucks
at an auction.There's a guy near me that sells refurbished tanks with new valves
sandblasted and painted for 750.Also I see them on craigslist.My propane company
was 50 cents higher than other places and wanted a 150 dollar extra fee because I
didn't use enough propane.I have my own tanks now.
 
It has been many years since we've had propane. Back then, the propane company had the authority to check and inspect the lines coming to the house any time they wanted (within reason). Anything beyond that point was "our" concern (their words; not mine). I see no difference now. It should make no difference what brand/model lp appliances you have or are using, OTHER than to make certain that the incoming regulator and line can handle any potential needs. That's not a difficult thing to figure out!

Back then we had a gas kitchen stove, gas water heater and gas fireplace. Simple. We even changed gas companies at one point and the other company was exactly the same way. Not long after that we got an outdoor wood boiler and kept the lp tank only for backup - never needed it.

Call up a competing (more if there are more) and ask what their policy is. If their policy is the same, then ask why. You "may" be in an area where some strange law or "authority" has been passed. But here, just like the electric company, they only care about everything on their side of the meter. Gas company "should" only care about everything to the outside connection to your house/buildings.

...Makes me wonder what's next - oh, can't buy fire wood anymore unless your supplier knows what make/model wood stove you have? *LOL*
 
I have a good friend in the propane delivery business. A few years back we had a bad
explosion at a convenience store near me, killing 2 employees and 2 firefighters, all
because the propane installer broke a valve off, on a tank.He was not a certified
installer. The state legislature went wild during their next session and put a lot of laws
on the books for propane installers and dealers.What you were told was just a drop in the
bucket of what is required to be done in my state. I don't care who owns the tank, you
won't get it filled, without a complete inspection, including a pressure check and a record
of everything you have hooked to that tank. And you better have serial numbers. The
liability is on the dealer,whether you believe it or not.
 
We bought our own tank and the savings on propane paid for the tank within 3 years. When you lease a tank you don't get the best price from your supplier because they know they have you locked in to buy from them.
 
Why do you think they'd fill your unknown tank without the info they want, if they won't even fill their own leased tank (which they know is OK?). I think you're outsmarting yourself here- you may just end up with a very expensive unfilled tank.
 
Local was bought out by Amerigas, as I'm told were most others in the area. They know from whom you purchase propane and don't sell to you
if you are buying from another location.

If you are dissatisfied with your current supplier for some reason (price, service) and call up an Amerigas service facility they do insist on an
appliance check, a hookup visual and replacement/repair if not to their suiting (code?????), and a pressure test at the tank for any leaks. Serial
numbers weren't recorded. I'd assume in your case the SN thing was a CYA for them in the event your house burned down due to an appliance
and it wasn't the one inspected by them.....like you replaced it after the inspection. Once inspected they leave you alone.

Prices even from the same dealer are all over the place. You have to play their little game to get the best deal which can be as much as 50
cents a gallon cheaper....50 cents a gallon on a 300 gallon fill up (500 gal tank with 100 gal residual) isn't something to sneeze at.

Best to buy your tank used, from 3rd party. I bought a 500 built back in the '50's as I recall and it has a 5% Nickel content making rust almost
impossible to accumulate to this day on places where the paint has fallen off. Back then it was mandatory as there was a place on the ID brass
plate for Nickle content.

In 2014, I bought a new 250 to power my Generac and it had rust on it when delivered, just sitting on the dealer's lot....The 500 was built in
Dallas. The 250 wasn't!!!!!! Being "Politically Correct" here so I don't offend any sensitive viewers.
 
I guess I should copy / past enough of the original post at the start of a reply so everyone knows who I am talking too. I use the classic view. Maybe if this site had a "quote" button to do that automatically, It would make that easier.
 
(quoted from post at 20:35:39 03/11/17) We bought our own tank and the savings on propane paid for the tank within 3 years. When you lease a tank you don't get the best price from your supplier because they know they have you locked in to buy from them.
Click to expand...

I get competitive quotes and use any lower price I get to renegotiate with my regular supplier. They have always matched my best price, although one year they resisted until I asked when they'd like to come get their tank. You don't have to be "locked in" unless there are no local competitors.
 
If you have multiple suppliers to buy from, I definately own my own tank. I got a post card this winter from the supplier I bought my tank from this winter, stating the same spiel about a mandatory safety check and
pushing new regulators. (They installed the regulators 4 years ago). I forget the "nominal" charge they wanted... I threw the card in the trash.

A couple weeks ago, the other local supplier came and filled my tank with the LP I bought at a community fundraiser last fall. No questions asked.
 
I bought a tank a few years ago it paid
for itself. Then I bought another. I
can shop for quantity of propane. Some
years I buy some years I dont. Call in
July through September and tell em you
want 1000 or 2000 gallons. The best
price is yours and they are happy to
deliver. The best part is you can call
and tell them "just so the delivery is
in the next couple of weeks". I lived
and dealt with the "shortage" a few
years ago had to go 2 weeks on grill
size tanks. Talk about expensive. Never
again.
 
As soon as a propane supplier starts servicing you system they are accepting a certain amount of liability. They have to certify that the system is leak free and check to see if it is up to code. The customer is required by code to report any changes to their system to there supplier so a new leak check can be done but of course you can't make them. By recording the serial numbers there is something to look at in case of a fire to help prove the system was looked at and maybe tell if a changes have been made to the system. In Oklahoma the leak check report is made up by the state and has to have a copy sent in to the state for review. They don't ask for serial numbers though just mfg. name, if there is a shut off, venting, pilot safety system, any capped openings, and a lot of tank info. That is just what I can remember off hand. If not filled out right you get it back. In Missouri the company makes up their own but there are minimum standards.
 
I own my 1000 gallon tank, but put it in the ground. Installed myself
with help of neighbor.. I have a big house heat with heat pump and
propane filled it in summer for .89 cents a gallon locked in for the
year at 1.19. 3600 square feet house with 3 kids and a wife and three
car garage and I have used 1-1/2 tanks.. There is no way I'd rent
one. My only regret is not burrying two 1000 gallon tanks..
 
I appreciate all the feedback. I think I did myself a disservice by listing two separate questions together. On the first question (safety check) it looks split between "it's none of their business" and "I'm being unreasonable". I accept that.

On the second question regarding owning my own tank - I haven't seen anyone say definitely don't buy your own. From what I've found I have at least 6 different suppliers in the area so having the opportunity to get competing bids on refills sounds worthwhile.

Thanks again everyone.
 

The Company may not care about themselves, but they are probably concerned about all of their employees who would be put out of work when YOUR insurance company sues them for millions after an obsolete condemned appliance causes a fire that levels your house and kills your wife. Believe it or not there is a lawyer around every corner looking to get a third of a huge insurance settlement.
 
I think others covered it but will add IF you are a minor user it may be well worth leasing the tank from them. ANYTHING GOES WRONG with an owned system you pay!!! You need to look at state /local laws on this. THEY HAVE CHANGED and most companies do a check (but I have not heard OF SERIAL NUMBERS ETC. NOW I WENT TO MY OWN TANKS AND CANNED AN OUTFIT (its a free country and free market) As others said its a liability on them if something goes wrong.
 
I would get your own tank for sure. I did and only regret was not having enough money to buy a larger one.
My main place that fills mine does safety check on lines every so often. They put a tap at the house to easily check pressures. When they shut the gas off to do that they then needed to know what appliances I had and if they had pilot lights needing relit or not. My boy was home and called me. I had electronic lighting heaters with no pilot lights. So no need to worry. I can see where knowing what you have can be a good idea if something happens.
 
Nothing like that in Ohio. Company owned tank and pay nothing for use and would not want to own any. The bigger the company the more the problems.
 
The paperwork may not be a requirement in Missouri like it is in Oklahoma but I couldn't imagine any supplier except maybe a small one that hasn't been sued yet not having documentation. Tank rent isn't that high here so it is just personal preference but some of the companies that do "loan tanks" charge 20 cents or more per gallon extra.
 
Whether you own it or lease it, learn how to check how much propane is in the tank before and after it's filled. A friend wondered why she was using so much gas until she started monitoring it (and let the delivery man know she was watching). Suddenly her gas use dropped by a significant amount...
 
That is why I stand right there when it's being filled! I have a 500 gal. tank and run it down to about 20% and know the law says it can only be filled to 70%. I own both of my tanks, so I can shop for the best price. Our LP does cost us a lot more here, and we don't have pre-buy at all. Jim in N.M.
 

I lease a 500 gallon tank. I wanted them to install a wet leg so I could refill my BBQ tanks. Was told the only way they would do that was IF I owned the tank, so I tried to buy the tank. Got told real fast they DO NOT sell tanks, and if I bought from someone else, and installed the wet leg, they would NOT fill it. 2 suppliers in this area. Got the same story from both.
 
Lots of people will fill their tanks to capacity rather than where it "should" be. Tanks should only be filled to about 80% capacity (if I remember correctly) to allow for expansion. If a tank gets filled too much, then the excess will vent out creating an explosive hazard, as well as a breathing hazard for small animals when the wind is calm.
 
Fortunately for me, I have a liquid line running to my grain dryer from which I can fill a grill, or forklift tank.

There is a 1/8" NPT test port on the final regulator by the house, where a grill can be plumbed permanently.
 
Remember a few years back when LP prices went through the roof?
My brother had bought his own tank that year so he could shop
around for the lowest price. Lowest he could get was about $4.
My pre-purchase price that year was about a quarter of that.

In good years it might save you some money.
Of course then it's yours to maintain as well.

I can swap companies any time I want. The new company simply
sets the other company's tanks off to the side until they're picked
up. I've only done it once in 15 years when our local supplier was
bought out by Amerigas and they raped the senior citizens.
I would pay extra not to ever deal with those crooks.
 
I have both owned and rented tanks on my property. Many times I have wished I owned all of them so I could shop fuel prices.

My son works for a propane company. In the last couple of years the delivery drivers like him have been required to do safety inspections and record all of the appliances served by the tank before they can fill it. This has become necessary both due to new government requlations and insurance requirements. He hates having to go inside peoples' houses and bother them. He has threatened to quit his job and find another because of this, but I have talked him out of doing that----for now. Don't blame the propane companies for all of this. A lot of it isn't their choice.

In the last three years, the office he works at has had 12 drivers come and go, and the biggest complaint they have is having to go into houses and inspect all the appliances before they can fill the tank. The drivers hate it.
 
I guess I should copy / past enough of the original post at the start of a reply so everyone knows who I am talking too. I use the classic view. Maybe if this site had a "quote" button to do that automatically, It would make that easier.
Click to expand...

Yes, you should.

OR, just use Modern view. It has an easy-to-use Quote function.
 
(quoted from post at 10:35:13 03/13/17)
I guess I should copy / past enough of the original post at the start of a reply so everyone knows who I am talking too. I use the classic view. Maybe if this site had a "quote" button to do that automatically, It would make that easier.
Click to expand...

Yes, you should.

OR, just use Modern view. It has an easy-to-use Quote function.
Click to expand...

Yes Jon, you should. :)
 
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