OT: 2001 Camry Solara wheel alignment headache

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

I picked up the car as an economical daily runner back in November and have been struggling to get it to roll straight ever since.

These Toyotas don't have a camber adjustment, but I understand cam bolts can take of this.

3 alignment shops tell me it is "in spec" but it pulls to the left on the highway so much I feel that it's really not safe to drive on a long trip. I'm ready to get a "camber level" and bolts and try tweaking it myself. It's so frustrating when they look at me as if I'm screwy and tell me their job is done. (Everything is tight or new - except left front control arm which I have ready to install). One alignment shop got an extra $60 out of me for a "thrust alignment" -- nothing changed.

Below is one of the alignment printouts. The car steers as what I would call "fidgety" at all speeds. On the highway, it pulls hard left. W On a highway gradual left curve, there is almost no left pull (obviously0. On a highway right curve, I fight it like crazy.

What should I try next ? What should I tell these guys to look for or set a certain way ?

Thanks in advance.

chuck2015 · Mar 6, 2017

look at the tires in my opinion. you probably have one or more tires that try to lead to the left. Made worse of course by the camber of the road. Switch the 2 fronts and see what happens and if necessary switch them back to front.

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

Thanks and good point. I tried that.

Swapped old (like new) tires all around I think 5-6 times (while keeping track of things), no change.

Brand new set of tires, no change.

rustred · Mar 6, 2017

i am not familiar with the toyota and have not done wheel alignments for a long time. just have to think here for a bit. first of all... did they test drive it? i would be looking at the tires first. a good wheel alighment guy will adjust the camber and castor settings to compensate after a road test. i have done this many times especially on the dodge car products. even had to switch tires around. a vehicle will pull to the more negative side of castor. also have to take road crown into the fact. castor has more effect on pulling than camber. i also did them before all this computerized stuff was out.

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

I need an 'old school" guy like you (who is willing to give it that little extra TLC). I had an old Chevy and it too 3 times before I found an experienced guy who could make it right.

They did a "city" test drive, but I don't think they took it on the highway.

The alignment guys are blaming the tires. But I can swap any two tires and the problem will still be there. The tires on it now are all like new. I even had it alignment checked after the new tires went on.

Thanks.

rustred · Mar 6, 2017

there is factory spec's yes. but at times you just have to make it steer good with compensating adjustments. it could have been in an accident or such thing. even bouncing the sidewalk with the right tire will throw thinks out. should be able to take your hands off the wheel at speed limit and should not wonder off either way.

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

That's what I thought.

I found out after I bought it that it has been in a bump of some sort in the front left (not enough to show up on Carfax). I have a new control arm for that corner (just in case that's the problem).

I got this car because I'm taller than average and coupes work better for me. They don't make a lot of "sensible" two door coupes anymore.

Dune Country · Mar 6, 2017

This is a safety issue
You paid to have it fixed and it wasn't.
Talk to the store manager or corporate.You probably need to be the "squeaky wheel"

Super-H-Mike · Mar 6, 2017

The SAI is off as indicated by the red highlight areas. That is not adjustable but usually points to bent parts. It seems unlikely that both sides wold be bent almost equally though. SAI definitely affects driving feel . Those numbers look low to me, I thought most Toyotas like that one would be closer to 12, but I could be mistaken. To have as severe of driving problems as you have , and have caster and camber sorta normal , something is seriously out of whack. I thought tires too, but you have pretty much eliminated that . You are going to have to find a guy with the knowledge , equipment and desire to figure out whats screwed up and find a way to correct it. That car should drive effortlessly and beautifully if all is in order. Does it pull equally while under power and while coasting ?

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

> Does it pull equally while under power and while coasting ?

There might be a slight variation in pull while accelerating vs constant-speed, but the left pull is so pronounced it's hard for me to comment accurately on other symptoms.

chuck2015 · Mar 6, 2017

(quoted from post at 13:27:18 03/06/17)
> Does it pull equally while under power and while coasting ?

There might be a slight variation in pull while accelerating vs constant-speed, but the left pull is so pronounced it's hard for me to comment accurately on other symptoms.

Is it possible the left front brake caliper is stuck and is causing the car to pull left?

glennster · Mar 6, 2017

mike i think spec calls for 12.03 on the sai spec. like you say, funny its out about the same on both sides. at this point, i would head to a body shop with good frame equipment and have them measure the dimensions. could be in the cradle or shock towers. it may have been crashed and not pulled correctly.

BobReeves · Mar 6, 2017

Call a couple body shops and ask who does frame alignments for them. A good frame shop should be able to fix it. I found one in Tulsa and have never had to take one back after they did an alignment. Tried to save some time once and had a close tire shop do an alignment on a Dodge Caravan. Ended up taking it to the frame shop to get it right.

chuck2015 · Mar 6, 2017

(quoted from post at 13:48:35 03/06/17) mike i think spec calls for 12.03 on the sai spec. like you say, funny its out about the same on both sides. at this point, i would head to a body shop with good frame equipment and have them measure the dimensions. could be in the cradle or shock towers. it may have been crashed and not pulled correctly.

If they used a frame master to straighten the frame then there will be some evidence of this on the chassis. They need to clamp to the frame to pull and this leaves marks in the sheet metal...i know because it was done to my previous car.

Super-H-Mike · Mar 6, 2017

I understand your frustration and want to try to fix it yourself, but I think something "greater " than camber and castor is wrong. I dont think you mentioned where you took it to get aligned ? At this point, I would do as the other guys said and call a big or well thought of local body shop and see who they use for collision alignments. Those guys will likely understand how to correct it better than say a tire store.

Super-H-Mike · Mar 6, 2017

That seems about right. Its been 12 years since I did an alignment professionally so I have forgotten things I used to know about it. I second your advice on the frame shop. It also makes a difference how good and accurate the equipment is. You can try as hard as you can to get it right, but if the machinery is lying to you the results will be crappy.

Janicholson · Mar 6, 2017

The caster difference is way too big and causing the issue. Set them the same and it will be fine. Jim

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

I appreciate the replies (and this site).

I was also starting to think that a frame shop might see something or figure something out. If it got bumped hard enough how will I ever know !?! Not all body shops "report" their work to whatever agency Carfax gets their data from. I like the idea of having a body shop look at it.

I stopped by the last shop/dealer who worked on it and mentioned SAI. He said "It doesn't matter as long as they are the same."

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

I saw that the SAI is supposed to be 12.something (+/- 0.75) on the tech's screen when I stopped in this afternoon.

I am really wondering now... since he said "it doesn't matter as long as they're the same". And they're not even the same !

MARK ROBKE · Mar 6, 2017

Make them drive it before they return it to you.Mark

chuck2015 · Mar 6, 2017

(quoted from post at 15:35:41 03/06/17) I saw that the SAI is supposed to be 12.something (+/- 0.75) on the tech's screen when I stopped in this afternoon.

I am really wondering now... since he said "it doesn't matter as long as they're the same". And they're not even the same !

is it possible that the strut assembly is somehow defective and is not keeping the correct geometry? Something is changing in the front end as you drive.

jimg.allentown · Mar 6, 2017

Just a few things that seem to stick out to me.
First, the SAI shows too much variation from one side to the other. Almost a full degree. That seems to indicate that something is bent.
Next, even though the rear toe shows to be in spec, it is a lot more than I was accustomed to seeing when I did alignments. It looks to be enough to cause uneven tire wear.
Third, moving the front toe a bit to the toe-out side in front would seem to help stability.
Lastly, has anybody checked to see that the steering rack is centered? With toe-in correct and even the steering wheel straight, the rack may not be over center. If the position of the rack was somehow moved at some point, and it is not properly located and centered in the body, it could cause the condition you are experiencing.

glennster · Mar 6, 2017

carfax gets their information from he insurance companys estimating system. altho body shop use the same systems, our data does not get sold to car fax, so it could have ben repaired as a customer pay or done as a rebuilder. also the car could have been pot holed hard and bent up the front end. not un common.

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

New Gabriel quick struts... after a set of Monroe quick struts proved to be unsatisfactory (one defective on front and two with clicks in back -- another long story).

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

The steering wheel is not centered. I have mentioned this to the various techs who've worked on this. They were dismissive.

On level conditions or highway driving I have to hold it a few degrees clock-wise from center. Slow driving, it is almost centered (when level), but it still wanders slightly.

I have a new left front arm ready to be put on Thursday. That is the same corner a body guy told me had been hit. The right front arm has already been replaced (before we found out the Monroe strut was faulty).

These cars were smooth, precise when new and perfect. Am I'm expecting too much from a 90k mile Camry coupe with unknown history ? </rant_over>

Here's combined view of the data.

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

That sounds like a great idea.

One place was a Tire store, one was a "recommended" suspension and alignment specialist, and the third guy has been in the business for 25+ years. It used to be a Buick/Cadillac dealership. The two "shops" are very busy with body-shop work.

It may need a tug on a frame rack.

IHC Red · Mar 6, 2017

Thanks.

rustred · Mar 6, 2017

i realized that this is a front wheel drive , so i dont even think it has a castor adjustment. but to correct that left pulling it needs more positive camber on the right and less on the left side. have you driven on the oppossite hyway lane to see what it does? im talking road crown here.
castor is never set the same on both wheels.

Geo-TH,In · Mar 7, 2017

If you lived in Terre Haute I would tell you to take it a place that specializes in Commercial truck springs. They are the only place that could get my old pick up to drive straight. They work on cars too. My new truck had a problem with the front springs, they had to be replaced to make the truck level.

jimg.allentown · Mar 7, 2017

Centering the steering rack and the steering wheel is a contributing factor to wandering.
Bear in mind that the steering rack has a spool valve that the steering column connects to. That valve is designed to stay in the center except when making turns.
When you turn, you are actually diverting hydraulic pressure from bypassing to providing assist to one side or the other. When it is operating off center, it mechanically senses you are making a turn - even though you are not - and is attempting to provide assist top the side that it is off center to.
Any proper alignment includes centering the steering.

Again, looking at the numbers, 3 tenths of a degree (about a quarter of a degree) difference from one side to the other is certainly not enough to cause a pull or wander.

The SAI difference causes me more concern than any other thing. Changing the control arm will probably not correct that. I suspect that you have damage to the suspension tower that is not readily visible to the eye. That would most certainly cause the car to more readily go one way than the other. I have seen as little as 1/4 of an inch cause major problems that didn't even show up on an alignment rack.
As other posters have said, I would consult a body shop. Something more radical than an alignment is wrong.

OT: 2001 Camry Solara wheel alignment headache

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