Yet another rant....

Reading 55 50 Ron's post about the battery charger reminded me I hadn't shared what I found out the other day.

I called our local Mack truck dealership trying to get something that showed me the placement of fuses, and relays on the fuse block of a customers truck, since the one on the cover was missing. I was told right off that Mack didn't allow them to give out ANY technical information. I pushed the woman who answered a little bit, and kept getting the same response. I finally asked who I needed to talk to to 'file' a formal complaint.

She turned me over to the service manager. I got the same answer from him. He also said that to get the info we just needed to 'buy the book', or find another sticker. When asked what book was needed, he had no clue which one it would be in, nor if there even was one. When parts was asked about a new sticker, they showed it as being available, yet none were available anywhere.

When I got back home a few hours later I called Mack Corporate. The lady I talked to there was as nice as could be, but told me exactly the same thing.

I told the service manual at the dealership, that the 'rule' spoke volumes about both Mack, as well as about the dealership. One that Mack didn't give a dang about their customers, and two, that the dealership obviously didn't either. I know as a dealer, they are directly responsible for taking care of customer service. As such, ALL of he dealers need to tell Mack that the customer is their number one priority, and refuse to comply with such a stupid rulling.

If a customer calls needing something simple, like the location of fuses on the fuse block, there is absolutely no reason this information shouldn't be given out. While I understand not wanting to give out so much information that they knock themselves out of work, giving out something that would typically be shown on a picture right there beside the block hurts then in no way.

The real problem is if one of their customers was setting on the side of the road because of something as simple as a bad $5 relay, by doing as they do, they basically force that customer into paying out big bucks to get their truck towed, all because some 'suit' has put out such a stupid edict.

I will give the lady at Corporate a huge Thank you, as after talking to her for a few minutes, she put me on a three way call with a guy at an independent shop our in WA state who was able to help me.

Funny thing, he looked in his books, and didn't find a picture of the fuse block. He called his local dealership, and got the same answer I did on the actual sticker...it was on the books as being available, but really wasn't available. He also told me that when Mack's tech guys have a problem they can't solve, they usually call him because he's been working on them for so long.

So, to sum it up, if you've got a Mack truck, you'd better go ahead and get a book for it if you can. Without it, when it eventually breaks down, they won't offer you any support at all.

This needs to get out as I know a lot of guys will buy a Mack based on it's tough reputation. I know Mack's have a history of being reliable, but without the customer service, I wouldn't recommend one, now, to my worst enemy.

I ordered a bunch of Ford 1-ton cab & chassis trucks. We quickly found out that we couldn't fuel the trucks. We refused to pay for the trucks; Ford sent factory engineers out 3 time; none of them could solve the problem. We got enough people from the shop to drive the chassis back to the dealership and parked the trucks to block all of their service entrances. That got the dealer all excited. Finally one of the service guys said to "Get Alf". This old mechanic came from the shop; looked over the situation and started calling out part numbers to the parts man. He changed the double hose arrangement and the trucks fueled perfectly; Ford hadn't provided a working vent. The parts department ran out of hose after fixing a few trucks and had to wait for more correct parts from Ford.

I remember a story about Case having transmission problems. In a service meeting, an old mechanic told them the problem was that the transmission case was flexing so much it was "breathing". Case reinforced the transmission case and that cured the problem.

Never underestimate the value of an old mechanic.

Wayne this is same a ola stuff with other stuff too. I just got done today with my Ford Expedition and a bozo service place. I need to take some pictures before I post it. Had a heck of a problem with a jiflub many years ago and went on the war path. Got the smart @@@manager fired. I know owners manuals are required by law to be available. That is why you can find a whole lot of stuff on line in PDF files but not full service manuals. All i can recomend is he find someone with the same truck and take a clear shot with his smart phone. I do it all of the time as i work on something that is a little unfamiliar. Your next step is to compose a nice letter to the company president, chair of the board, CEO, ETC. It will stir up a reply and maybe get around the company flunkies. You can also use the nasty that you posted on a national board YT. and noted what crappy help you got. They DO NOT WANT lousy exposure. Give it a try and get back to us.

Another thing. Are you anywhere near Machunge,PA? That is their main assembly plant. Every fathers day there is a big truck show there. Might be a good place to voice your opinion. He he

Ever since Mack got bought out they have gone down hill. Seems foreign company's don't care once you buy it.

How old is the truck Wayne? Every truck we have at work is a Mack, well except for one Sterlin. Our mechanic has no problems getting info from the local dealer here, but that dealer does sell 3 or 4 lines of trucks, but the guy has a sign that says Mack Certified Dealer or something to that effect. All of our truck are 2006 and earlier though, so maybe its just info on newer trucks, I don't know.

This sounds like good old Corporate greed. They want it all,from the time you buy it until you scrap it.Mack is now owned by Volvo. I wonder if Volvo has the same policy. My wife works for Volvo. I will see what I can find out.

problem is the "old" mechanics, the "old baler fixers" the "the old tractor mechanic" are just that old , retired or dead. But YT is here and all of us are smarter than one of us. That's what makes this web site valuable to me. gobble

Sort of similar problem with my JD tractor. Around a 2000 model 5105. Pretty basic tractor but it has a relay block with around 8 relays in it. Owners manual does not even show it or tell what they operate. Relay box cover does not either. Maybe the service manual does ? I ended up removing all of them cleaning things up a bit and reinstalled them all back into different locations. They were all the same relay. So far it fixed it and no other function seems to of quit. The one that goes to the injection pump to energizes it so it can start was dropping out when cranking. My book NOW has the location of that one written in it if this should occur again.

Well I found out MACK was a pain to deal with 25 years ago. I had the unfortunate idea to buy a used Mack truck. Getting parts and service was a total nightmare. I think that if Mack could have done it they would have made their own bolts just to make you buy them from Mack. I never licensed the truck just because I had so much trouble getting parts while getting it ready for the road. I sold it at a loss just to get away from the parts hassle. My WATERLOO part with Mack was just an input seal to the rear end. It had zero numbers on it and no one could cross it to any standard seal. It took Mack two weeks and $50 in 1992 to get me a simple seal.

I have had people make fun on us running Freightliner trucks. They do not have the best cabs or other things but I can buy parts for them world wide and usually find them fast. They will move freight down the road just like a Pete, Mack or Kenworth.

In the 80's when I was in high school a local kid had a mid 80's ford 1/2 ton 4x4 and the gas station kept a 4x6 block of wood for him to pull up on to fuel his truck.

How ironic. I just watched an "Undercover Boss" episode on Netflix that feature Mack from a few years back. The "boss" was crowing about how much he cared, and how he had come from a nontruck background, but was fascinating early on, and was now in a position to make Mack great again. Apparently his crowing was a bunch of DEF cleaned hot exhaust.

We ran all Macks at the concrete plant hauling ready mix concrete and concrete block thats only brand of truck that would hold up especially with the mixers.We would get a complete set of books on a new model when we ordered the truck for our shop and their service was great.Also bought a lot of parts from Standard Parts.You really can't blame a dealership for not handing out
their information to independent shops competing with their dealership for business.

This all reminds me of a story I heard once about a fellow went on a trip by train. He was bitten by bugs many times in his bed in the sleeper car. When he got home, he wrote a nasty letter to the president of the railroad.

A few days later, he got a reply from the president. The president was apologetic, he just couldn't understand it as they had never had a problem with bugs before, etc. etc. The fellow was feeling pretty good about it until he went to put the letter back into the envelope and a note fell out that said, "Send this guy the bug letter".

(quoted from post at 06:47:12 01/27/17) How ironic. I just watched an "Undercover Boss" episode on Netflix that feature Mack from a few years back. The "boss" was crowing about how much he cared, and how he had come from a nontruck background, but was fascinating early on, and was now in a position to make Mack great again. Apparently his crowing was a bunch of DEF cleaned hot exhaust.

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. The people at the top are often shielded from the policies and problems created by people farther down the chain. Large corporations are very complex and one person simply can't keep every detail in their head. The CEO only gets a 50,000 foot view, and even that's hard for one person to keep track of sometimes.

Bobcat isn't much better. I can download an entire schematic for anything Cummins for free but can't cross ref a seal or bearing number for a bobcat skidloader. Just protecting their parts and shop profits. Bobcat dealer said if I ordered over the web I'd get no support, I told him ain't getting any now from you so what difference does it make.

AMEN Tom turkey RB

Did you see the episode of Undercover Boss with Mack. The undercover boss was from Volvo . When the gave the awards at they end of the show they were cheap.

Interesting about the Ford fueling problem. I had a '76, an '81, and an '82 that you had to barely dribble fuel into.

As you can see, I'm a slow learner.

Hate to break the news but Bobcat is in the business to make themselves $$$ not independent shops

"Experience prevails"...

As they do pay attention to their tax lawyer, and grin. Jim

Would you go into a little detail on the repair of that system? I have an '88 and '90 Super Duty neither of which take fuel. Will the new hose from service parts fix it or is it a fabrication thing? They offer a "one size fits all" hose and discontinued everything else. Nothing worse than have a Chevy pull up next to you and fill up with a truck stop nozzle going full bore.

Hello NCWayne,


Time to look for the same year truck and take a picture of the electrical panels,

Guido.

Most of this is the dealer. I gave out a whole lot of information to customers, both on the phone and in person. The local Deere service manager told customers that is what their shop was for. New management at Case IH dealer sent a bill to a customer for information I had given him. That didn't go over very well. Just one of the reasons I left.
Company policy was to work through your dealer and still is at Deere or CaseIH as far as I know.

Hello NCWayne

A couple of pictures for you. The diagrams are out there, just did a search,

Guido.

The old mechanic rattled of the numbers of the hoses from memory and the parts guy ran and got the parts. Can't tell you the part numbers, but the trucks fueled perfectly after the mechanic put on the new hoses. Maybe some dealership still has an old mechanic that know how to properly vent a tank. There is an inner hose and an outer hose; the air is supposed to vent back between the outer and inner hose to work right. As I recall, there were about 20 trucks in that order; none of them would accept fuel until the mechanic fixed them to vent.

Sounds like the hassle I had with Gehl over trying to get a diagram of the main hyd valve on my skidloader. Dealer gave me the company service manager"s number and that guy said he"d lose his job if he gave me that. Gehl did not manufacture the valve. Then my dealer told me that he got a nasty call from the service manager, admonishing the dealer to never give out the service manager"s number. Some customer service!

(quoted from post at 00:24:58 01/27/17) .............. I was told right off that Mack didn't allow them to give out ANY technical information............

Click to expand...

I have a Doge Dakota that is, except for two 'features' a very good little truck.
1. The cruise control won't set below 35mph ( I do a lot of backroad crusing and much time is spent BELOW 35. I also had the same beef with the '05 Ram 2500 that I no longer own. I took both trucks to 2 different Chrysler dealers with a request that they 'reset' the cruise 'set' speed - " Sorry, we can't do it as it's against Federal law", 'But what about GM, THEY will set at 25mph', says I? A shrug was the answer, 'But my wife's PT Cruiser also sets at 25, what about that?' The answer was another shrug.The same answer was given when I requested the elimination of the 2 second delay built into the vehicle's interface between the inputs and the actual engine retardation when decelerating!

I take this a an example of the government's belief that they need to protect us from ourselves! The more we/they rely on technology in all the wrong places the more actual experience does not matter and the more room there is for un-alterable screwups!

:twisted:

About 18 years ago, I was a Parts Manager for a Volvo dealership. All Volvo part #'s that could be crossed (bearings, seals, belts) had the cross # in the parts breakdown. A bearing listed the BCA or Timken #. I had a customer call me from about 800 miles away and I looked up the Volvo fan belt #'s for him with the Gates and Dayco #;s. He picked up a set to carry with him but made it back and had the dealer put a new set on. Volvo had great support to the dealer anyway.

I have heard from dealers that they are only making money from the service dept. Because of the internet they can't make enough selling trucks.

I've looked and can find everything but the one I need.

If has 6 relays on the right hand side of the block, spaced 2 on top, two in the middle, and 2 more on the bottom.

Too, and it sounds odd, but the breakers have blades inline with the body of the breaker, just like they would be with a fuse.

The diagrams I've found, and what is in this customers other truck, don't have the relays positioned the same way, and the breakers have their tabs at 90 degrees to the body.

If you've seen a panel like that, please post it, as it has eluded me thus far.

I've never had a problem getting information on Volvo construction equipment. Heck, they have always been happy to do anything I've asked, including making me a copy of a wiring diagram,, etc, etc, etc

Beyond that, in my opinion, Volvo's are over priced, over complicated, junk when it comes to their equipment.

I tried to price a final drive, on the end of the rear axel, on an L70 once. it had to be bought one part at a time (an assembly was not available). The parts alone was over $20,000. I found them a good, used one for about $2500.

The guy out in WA state that the lady hooked me up with tried that. The picture he sent me was one of the ones like I described before in my response to another post in this thread. So far it seems like it's simply an odd truck....

Why would the the government regulate only Dodge Dakotas to the higher speed while allowing all other vehicles to go down to 25 MPH? More likely Chrysler discovered a problem using the cruise below 35 MPH and locked it out to eliminate the problem. It's much easier to just pass the buck to the government than to explain the real reason to an already irate customer.

volvo has made finding info overly hard to do. fuse box schematics are almost impossible to find. what year and model i will look at dealer portal and see if i can find it.

my uncle bought a new case 930 he had trouble with axle bearings going out when the y looked further they found out there was not a hole for gear oil to go to it