Yet another 'Which tractor should I buy' thread

Hello everyone!

First off, I just want to say this is a terrific forum. Over the last few months I've been researching a potential vintage tractor purchase, and this forum has been awesome for turning up 'real world' expertise and tips about the various models available here.

So, I am looking at purchasing a small hobby farm with ~4 acres of very neglected pasture (small 1-2" diameter established trees). My long term plan is to be able to run a few smaller cow / calf pairs on the land, such as Dexters.

The property will need a tractor. The main jobs I see initially are bush hogging and snow removal.

Another requirement for me is a front-end loader. It's just too handy for various odd jobs to do without.

I don't want to get a machine that's too small and tie my hands for the future. I may want to run a small haybine or something with it some day. At the same time, I don't want to invest in too big a machine.

I want to keep my budget low ($6k or less). I'm reasonably able mechanically, and the farm comes with a large workshop, so I'm not afraid to do some hands-on maintenance.

Finally, I *do* have a JD 2010 available to use, although it would take ~1.5 hours to drive it from my father-in-law's to my place.. and then a return trip.

My top contenders at the moment are:

[b:8713133c26]MF 165[/b:8713133c26] - $8000 - with a loader, *seems* in good mechanical shape. Also one for $5400, no loader but new hydraulics and starter.

[b:8713133c26]Fordson New Major[/b:8713133c26] - $5500 - diesel, new tires / wheels, exhaust, no loader

[b:8713133c26]Ford 861 Powermaster[/b:8713133c26] $1650 - gas, unrestored but running, no loader

[b:8713133c26]Allis Chalmers D14[/b:8713133c26] - $5500 - gas, with loader, redone engine (valves / springs / pistons), new tires, battery, carb rebuilt and comes with a post hole auger (two augers), 3 furrow plow and 7' sickle mower.

[b:8713133c26]International 414[/b:8713133c26] - $1900 - with recently rebuilt motor, no loader.

[b:8713133c26]International 504[/b:8713133c26] - $5500 - With cab, loader and bale spear.

The above are the main contenders. There's also a sprinkling of MF 35s / 135s and TO-35s on the market at fairly good prices. Also a dozen Ford N-series in decent condition. There are two Leyland 272s that look interesting, but probably too big.

The Allis Chalmers D14 looks like it's probably the best candidate, but it's on the smaller side.

The Ford 861 looks like it could be a steal, but I'm assuming it will require some up front investment. However, it's currently a working tractor, and from the photos looks like it's been stored dry - the photos show a lot of age, fading and surface rust on the tin... but nothing flaky looking. Kind of like a car left out in the sun in Arizona. Plus, I'd need to source out a loader.

Plus, the 861 is on of the all-time best looking tractors when restored, IMO.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or help about the models above!

If the 165 loader is a diesel, and you are thinking about future uses, it is your
best choice...... if it's a good one. Newer, more power, better hydraulics, lots of
parts available, easier to operate, more adaptable to different uses than the others.
They are all good tractors, the Massey just stands a little taller. Ben

I agree. Jim

Thanks for the thoughts Centash & Jim.

I want to throw one other contender into the ring - there is a Fordson Super Major available the next township over. I don't know anything about the cost or condition as I wasn't able to stop at the time and we don't go that way often... but how would that compare to a MF 165? There's a loader on the Ford as well.

Not sure if the MFs listed for sale are gas or diesel - to me, that would be prime info to into an ad!

The soil would have to be light and easy to plow for a D14 to pull that 3-bottom plow. A D17 would be more suitable to pull that plow. Otherwise the D14 would be an okay tractor for your acreage. As others have stated the Massey 165 would be a good bet and able to handle a small expansion in the future.

The Major would be the first one I'd weed out at that price.

Is the 504 a diesel or gas? If you do borrow the 2010 be gentle on it. They're not known to be a good tractor and parts are expensive.

They didn't say in the ad about the 504.

RE: the 2010 - oddly enough, it's labelled as a 1910 (which Google says is a seeder). FIL says it's identical to a 2010, but was manufactured in Germany.

BrianV, of that list, I'd also lean toward the Massey 165. I grew up using a 175, and it was a really sweet tractor. The single thing that sets it above for you is the Hi-Lo transmission. Brush hogging in low range is just the ticket. Ditto for using a snow blower or rototiller. Parts are readily available too. A neighbor has a Fordson Major diesel, and has had a lot of engine problems. YMMV.

One thing to check on the Massey (and any other tractor, especially one with a loader), is the condition of the front axle pivot bushings. On any tractor with a loader with down pressure, just set the bucket on the ground and lift the front wheels and see if the axle drops. Excessive pivot wear can be expensive to fix, especially if the bushings are gone and the pin and housings are worn egg shaped. Check to see if the spindle bushings are worn also (gap between top of tire and spindle increases when lifted). Loaders are hard on front end parts, and unless maintenance is increased, they can wear out a lot faster.

Hope that helps.

165 with the loader would be my pick, especially if the loader is the yellow
industrial loader , with the crank driven pump.

If you need a tractor with a loader:
buy one with a loader. Not being able
to find a good used loader and having
to buy new will likely cost more than
the tractor. Depends on how badly you
need the loader.

Here's the local options for Massey 165s:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-farming-equipment/ottawa/mf-165-tractor-with-loader/1232315746

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/ottawa/165-massey-ferguson:-tractor-price-reduced/1124537517

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-other/ottawa/165-massey-tractor/1211556778?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-farming-equipment/cornwall-on/massey-ferguson-165/1218248368

The top one looks like it has the industrial loader. Second one is the nicest... but too nice for my budget.

The last two don't have loaders... anyone have a ballpark as to what a loader would cost to source?

The latter two are probably more towards my price range, but neither have loaders.

Here's a Massey 20 with the industrial loader:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-livestock/ottawa/tractor-for-sale-must-go/1213266578

Here's a 135 with the industrial loader:

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-farming-equipment/ottawa/massey-ferguson-135-tractor/1199123737

Almost worth buying the 135 with the loader... then selling the 135 and putting the loader on a clean 165...

(quoted from post at 09:49:05 01/23/17) If you need a tractor with a loader:
buy one with a loader. Not being able
to find a good used loader and having
to buy new will likely cost more than
the tractor. Depends on how badly you
need the loader.

Click to expand...

Be careful buying a tractor with a loader on it...most have had a hard life.

For the prices I see you give hands down the Ford is the best bet. It has live hyds and live PTO plus give you room the play with as for equipment. I do not know your back ground but me I buy cheap as I can and mostly not running and get them running but I have been doing this for decades now. Like the last one I got that took very little to get running I payed $300 for and had it running the day I got it

That's a bit the way I tend to lean. I understand engines well enough that I am fairly confident that I can get an old tractor running.

My biggest concerns are parts availability and cost. I know nothing about that side of the tractor world.

(quoted from post at 08:15:19 01/23/17) The soil would have to be light and easy to plow for a D14 to pull that 3-bottom plow. A D17 would be more suitable to pull that plow. Otherwise the D14 would be an okay tractor for your acreage. As others have stated the Massey 165 would be a good bet and able to handle a small expansion in the future.

Click to expand...

I would suggest the D17 also, you can get them for less than the D14 in most cases, they have a great engine, plus the power director (hi/lo) can be shifted on the go, unlike the MF.

If you can find an Allis 170 or 175 diesel they are even better than the D17 and have the Perkins engine. They are my favorite...I have 8 of them!

Massey multipower can be shifted on the go

Those Massey tractors are solid. Seems a
little high on price though. Would be for
this area anyway.(central Michigan) I have
a 175 and parts are not an issue. I've
always been able to get what I need. If
you're going to run a baler/haybine, the
smaller ones will do it, but if you have 45-
50hp+ you'll be happier and won't really
cost any more money in the vintage you're
looking.

(quoted from post at 10:09:01 01/23/17) Massey multipower can be shifted on the go

Click to expand...

True, but most don't have them....and they are problematic. Everyone that I have seen lately has been disabled. I grew up on a 135D w/mp and have been looking for one like that....rare out here.

Alllis Chalmers are pretty rare in this area. There's a D17 w/ a loader for $4k in pretty good shape about a 6-hour drive away on the other side of Toronto. There's another one without a loader for $3500 in Southern Ontario.

There's also a 175 about 7 hours away with a cab and a 7ft blower, but it looks pretty rough.

You might want to rethink the tractor size. Four acres will hardly support one cow in most places, let alone a calf. There would be no
need for a mower conditioner or hay cutter as there would not be any with a cow eating.

Ok so here are a few things to research before you buy any tractor.
#1 look around as to what tractor dealers you may have in say under 50 miles from where you live.
#2 visit them and ask what tractor they have and can get parts for.
#3 see if maybe some of us form Y-T live in your area bet you will find there is more then one under 50 miles from you
#4 as for how little bit of land you have most of the tractors you have listed are WAY over kill for what you have.

I have 44 acres and do hay every year and own way to many tractors. I have around 30 of them and just got 2 more last fall which i do not need.

Better stop and think 4 acres isnt very much and one cow and calf will keep it pastured down you sure dont need too much of a tracctor on the small patch once you get the trees cut down cause you can cut them with a chain saw down close and treat the stump at ground level and treat it so it doesent grow back and it will rot down.

I think you are limiting yourself down to too few tractors too quick,some you listed are way over priced and do you really know anything about the mechanical condition of any of them?
You really need to get a real mechanic to go over whichever tractor you are ready to buy BEFORE you spend your money unless you can afford unlimited repair bills.

If you have not bought an acreage yet, I wouldn't rush out to buy a tractor yet either. Get some quotes for what it will cost to hire someone else clear the trees, roots and prepare the ground for a pasture, including fences. Factor those costs into your purchase price because it will cost you about the same or more to buy equipment and do the work yourself, but it will be a lot of fun!

If your one to two inch trees are four to ten feet high and two to six feet across, I would prefer to pull most out by the roots on a muddy day than to cut them off with a mower and fight the roots and sharpened stumps for several years. The 165 with a stout loader would be the best to start with, but I think $8,000 is too high. You will have a hard time selling it for much over $4,500.

It sounds like your tractor needs for clearing the trees may be much different from your long term needs of clipping pasture weeds, moving a few bales and clearing snow. You may want to buy one tractor to get the place the way you want it, then trade it for a smaller gas tractor to maintain the place. A loader, 3 point hitch, live PTO live hydraulics and power steering are all very handy. A quick attach loader is great to have, but hard to find on 50 year old tractors.

Ok, so first off, I appreciate all the feedback.

I am not buying a tractor yet. But I am trying to get a sense of the local market, relative values, and how long-time users feel about the various models and applying that to real-life examples local.

Regarding stocking, after discussing with some local farmers we can typically stock 1 cow per 1 - 1.5 acres depending on pasture quality and how the grazing is managed. I'd be looking at Dexters which max out about 600lbs, allowing me to roughly double that stocking rate... although I will build up to that as I improve my pasture and see how far I go - start with two on the 4 acres, and see how it goes.

I plan to spend this year amending the pasture / bushhogging / putting up fencing / converting one end of the old barn to a run-in etc. with an eye to actually getting a few cattle next spring.

As for buying acreage, I just submitted the second counter offer on the property we are looking at. I expect to land it within a few hours. Fingers crossed!

Good luck! I gather from your info you are in Ontario.....so, if your prices are in
Canadian dollars, those responding should be aware that the Canadian dollars is worth
3/4 of a US dollar, making those tractors appear overpriced.

Welcome to the board, a few other Canucks on line here as well. Ben

Thanks, Ben!

What part of Southern Ontario? I grew up in Niagara, lived in St. Catharines, Hamilton, and several places in between.

I have a 175 massey and love it. I dont have a loader for it but I cut/rake/bale 3-400 round
bales a year with it as well as other misc stuff around the farm. It sips fuel and has been
awesome. I assume a 165 would be similar. I also had dexters and hated em! I would put them at
the bottom of my list! Have some Galloways and lowlines that grow faster and way more efficiently
than those dexters! Good luck! Sounds like a great place!

Spend a lot more time looking. You've got at least a few months before you even need to worry about anything that would need a tractor.

Rule #1 is, if it's listed for more than a couple of days, it's grossly overpriced for what it is.

Rule #2 is, they always look better in the pictures.

Rule #3 is, be in the right place at the right time. Reasonably priced tractors come across Kijiji and Craigslist all the time, but they don't last long. Scan the ads a couple times a day and be ready to pounce.

For that size of property and the tractors you listed I would be looking at the
MF 135 - 165's
You listed two of them that I would be puting at the top of my list

The 135 is a nice tractor long lasting with the ad3-152
the loader on that one is run off of the 3 point hydro's and is a lighter duty
unit with one cyl on the front bucket also has multi power which when working
is great but I've trouble some when not

The 20 is an industrial tractor that's based off the 135
basic difference is the trans has 6 speeds forward and reverse with the shuttle
shift
Also has a beefer front axle for loader work it has an industrial loader that's
stronger as well add benifit is it has the front driven pump to run the loader
as well
IMO I would take the MF 20 based on your needs and land size a lot of farms 100
acres average a round here were worked for yrs with 135 Massey's for yrs
the 20 is just tougher built

Take a look at what rebuild kits with bearings cost as your looking best not to have any surprises.

We are near Lucknow, Goderich, near the lakeshore.Ben

Get power steering if possible. The MF 135 is expensive to add power steering on later, if even possible. Power steering is most useful for loader work, if no PS other uses are not too bad.

KEH

The only tractor that I have experience with is the IH B414. I assume that it is a diesel? The best part of the tractor is the engine. The steering gear box is known to have problems. Also, it has the ramp ball brakes which usually aren't very good.

I'll add to the confusion. I have an AC 170 with good loader, smooth power steering, 18.4 deep tread tires,bucket like new . Only $5500. Probably 10 to 15 years newer than the others and bigger. The problem - it is in western Pa.

504 would be my last choice for a loader tractor. you spend a lot of time backing up when loading. 504s have a VERY slow reverse.

The MF 165 would be an excellent tractor for what you want to do, but those prices seem out of line to me.