My topic is this: With all the big retail stores shutting down, malls dying etc. Where will it end or how will it play out? For this one I am not to interested in the technical reason a store did not make it. (selling pool tables instead of fast moving items) Also some restaurants seem to be in the same boat. In a bigger town near me all you see is stores in triple or quadruple form. If all the stores and restaurants were to close that one would be a ghost town!! I have said for years "I cannot see how the economy can support all this" well my timing was a little off but its here now. Thanks to all
- Thread starter JOCCO
- Start date
olgentdc
Well-known Member
amen ,,, , but since their buil ,,. I would love to rent the space when they go out of biznez
OK, so they stop building without being able to write off the cost of building and the construction worker is now out of work and on welfare. Is that what you are looking to accomplish? Buying more votes with welfare dollars? Guess you know that a farm being run as a LLC can take the same write off? Hey maybe this is a god idea. Take away the incentives like machinery write offs and such too. Collect more tax money so you can pay it out in welfare as Ford, GM, FIAT/Chrysler, Cat, JD, AGCO and CaseIH/NH start massive layoffs too! See, you just solved the problem of a certain party coming to power and staying there forever! All them extra folks on welfare will certainly vote for the party that buys their vote by giving them more and more!
Rick
Other than the kiddie food fast food type places restaurants are dying. The generation that wanted a good sitdown meal is going away. The wages that most younger people receive do not allow people to eat out unless it is the value meal at McDonalds or the pizza slice at the gas station/ convenience store. I hate to think where things will be in another ten to twenty years. I have never been a raving abundant but it seems we are heading back to the Guilded Age of the late 1800's
The thing killing stores like Sears is an outdated business model. There are plenty of store fronts doing fine. Sears just made some errors and then instead of recognizing those errors and fixing them they continued along that same path. Just because Sears is failing doesn't mean Wal Mart is. IF you are hinting that manufacturing needs to come back for stability I think you are right. For those who think that these companies should be able to write off the cost of building think about this. A lot of people shopping on line are doing to so to avoid paying sales tax to their local and state governments. I will bet money that the state and local governments are losing more tax revenues to on line sales than they would collect in corporate taxes now being written off in construction write offs.
Rick
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Times change and so do what people want and the businesses that don't see it or refuse to change get left behind.And really that's how its supposed to be in our system.
Handouts to businesses that refuse to change is a negative.Farming is a perfect example Gov't gives Billions$ in handouts to farmers every year that are using an outdated business model.
Handouts to businesses that refuse to change is a negative.Farming is a perfect example Gov't gives Billions$ in handouts to farmers every year that are using an outdated business model.
"old" mentioned more manufacturing... Chrysler/Fiat is going to invest $1 billion to create 2,000 jobs (that's about $.5 million per job, if you want to look at it that way). A big part of the work will be done by robots however. To get us back to any sort of better national employment at that rate will take more money than probably exists. Granted this is high end but shows that investment of a bunch of money in mfg. isn't going to solve the problem on a broad basis.
To the point of the post, those in the know have been saying that we are over built on retail. A mall in the big city near us had two Macy's, one is closing this year. A local mall has the Sears closing this spring, the K-mart nearby closed mid last year. But Kroger has knocked down the K-mart and is building a bigger store, this in the same strip center but at the other end of it. The mall I mentioned had a big box store in a wing that had several occupants over the years, they tore it down a couple of years ago and built a big new movie theater. The former Macy's in that mall became Dick's Sporting Goods. Rumor is that Rural King is looking for a location in town. Things change, grow and shrink. I think the economy will finally take off once new economic policy takes effect, but that might be a year or so to get into place, you don't overcome all at once 8 years of failure to do much of anything.
Yea, it will be interesting how it plays out.
Some segments of the govt are helping push us to a service oriented economy, away from a manufacturing ecconomy.
In some ways that happens naturally, manufacturing always heads to cheaper resources and cheaper labor. And what manufaturing stays will always adapt more technology and automation.
But it is very hard to replace manufaturing jobs.
Service jobs have no root to them. They are there to serve between manufaturing and consumer. All by themselves, they fall flat.
The ecconomy needs to come out of the ground. Farming, fuel, timber, mining. Raw resources turned into real goods is the strong foundation of an ecconomy.
We in the USA have overpriced labor, and we are in the process of banning mining, timber harvest, and farming.
That leaves very few people who will be able to afford to buy the stuff we import from China.
Which really has our ecconomy fall flat on its face. It is currently propped up with hidden inflation and govt programs, but eventually all that 'good will' gets spent and we have to face reality. (Not a political rant exactly - both sides of the isle are willing to spend away our good will and future for short term gains and mirrors that make us look good for now.....)
Japan experienced this some time ago, when their cheap labor force became an expensive labor force, and they have few raw materials to work with. They have a very stagnant ecconomy, for decades. They get by, but there isn't much to look forward to. They spent all the fun money, and are only able to plod along.
We are on the exact same path. We do have raw materials we could work with, but we are choosing to abandon that.
The future is pretty clear, tho not exactly which bits and pieces happen to us.
It will be interesting.
The local regional shopping town has its mall losing a large Sears. Other big tenants are a book store, a sports and hunting store, a JC Penny's, and a Target store. Three of those 4 are on declines as well? How long does the mall last?
Paul
Some segments of the govt are helping push us to a service oriented economy, away from a manufacturing ecconomy.
In some ways that happens naturally, manufacturing always heads to cheaper resources and cheaper labor. And what manufaturing stays will always adapt more technology and automation.
But it is very hard to replace manufaturing jobs.
Service jobs have no root to them. They are there to serve between manufaturing and consumer. All by themselves, they fall flat.
The ecconomy needs to come out of the ground. Farming, fuel, timber, mining. Raw resources turned into real goods is the strong foundation of an ecconomy.
We in the USA have overpriced labor, and we are in the process of banning mining, timber harvest, and farming.
That leaves very few people who will be able to afford to buy the stuff we import from China.
Which really has our ecconomy fall flat on its face. It is currently propped up with hidden inflation and govt programs, but eventually all that 'good will' gets spent and we have to face reality. (Not a political rant exactly - both sides of the isle are willing to spend away our good will and future for short term gains and mirrors that make us look good for now.....)
Japan experienced this some time ago, when their cheap labor force became an expensive labor force, and they have few raw materials to work with. They have a very stagnant ecconomy, for decades. They get by, but there isn't much to look forward to. They spent all the fun money, and are only able to plod along.
We are on the exact same path. We do have raw materials we could work with, but we are choosing to abandon that.
The future is pretty clear, tho not exactly which bits and pieces happen to us.
It will be interesting.
The local regional shopping town has its mall losing a large Sears. Other big tenants are a book store, a sports and hunting store, a JC Penny's, and a Target store. Three of those 4 are on declines as well? How long does the mall last?
Paul
Paul, with the Sears store in the Fargo Mall closing I've learned a few things I didn't know about malls. When they started the big store, Sears, Penny's ECT were the drawing cards. They got cheap leases compared to the smaller stores because they were the stores that drew customers in. Jump forward a couple of generations of shoppers and wants, needs and most important spending power changes. When they built the mall in Fergus Falls the to stores that were the draw or anchor stores was Woolworth's and Penny's. Woolworth failed a couple of decades ago and Penny's pulled out a few years ago. The mall is 1/2 gone to make way for a Home Depot and the other 1/2 isn't near full. The big draws there now are Dunham Sports, the Dollar Tree and Herbergure's. Not looking good at all! About 15 years ago Wal Mart was worried. Most of their regular shoppers were older and starting to die off. And they were not catering to the younger crowd. So unless the retailers can react to ever changing customers they will come and go. Another market change besides online shopping is that people are willing to travel a ways to shop. 40 years ago most people here wouldn't drive 90 miles to Fargo to shop. Heck most of the time they wouldn't drive 25 miles to shop in Fergus. We got one or 2 locals here now who commute 90 miles to Fargo daily to work! The teens and younger folks think nothing of going to Fargo. Between them and online anything in between is feeling the pinch! Will the malls die? I think in the long run they will be OK but they better get their ducks in a row.
Rick
Rick
Dune Country
Well-known Member
The big thing here is online shopping.
On another note I have read that anybody born today wil never drive.
On another note I have read that anybody born today wil never drive.
Online shopping is getting huge. I got a couple of amazon gift cards for Christmas. I'll spend them on something, pretty quickly. Rather than drive the 10 miles to town, 30 to Sears, I shop online, often I get my stuff quicker than I would at the store, plus a much better selection. We basically go to town for groceries, pet food, and HD stuff. My only complaint is FedEx. They suck, UPS or USPS is much better.
shopping models are changing. People dont like to spend all day in a mall. They like to just hit and run... Meaning get in and get out quick.
Sears is loosing on applance sales as they take a week to deliver, and Lowes does it in two to three days. Lowes or Home Depot or others are closer than Sears anyway.
Fred Werring
Well-known Member
My drive to work takes me through a good sized shopping area with an indoor mall, several strip malls, and lots of stores.
And the week before Christmas, how easy it was to get to work.
+/- 10 years ago, before online shopping got huge, you needed to allow another 10-15 minutes travel time to get through the Christmas traffic.
And while the traffic is still heavier, it's nothing like it used to be.
While there will always be a need for physical stores, just not as great a need.
Fred
And the week before Christmas, how easy it was to get to work.
+/- 10 years ago, before online shopping got huge, you needed to allow another 10-15 minutes travel time to get through the Christmas traffic.
And while the traffic is still heavier, it's nothing like it used to be.
While there will always be a need for physical stores, just not as great a need.
Fred
A similar thing has been happening in NW Iowa for the last 35 years. Local stores close or move to a larger town that is a regional shopping center. People left in the smaller towns either drive to the larger shopping centers or shop catalogs/online. USPS, FedEx and UPS get a lot of business.
Nebraska now requires Amazon.com to collect sales tax on all Nebraska sales even though Amazon.com has no brick and mortar in the state.
Nebraska now requires Amazon.com to collect sales tax on all Nebraska sales even though Amazon.com has no brick and mortar in the state.
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
One town in the area, of which I am aware, 30 miles from Dallas proper, population of around 30k had just such a dying mall and had been that way for 10 years or so. JCP was about the only survivor......barely.
Fast forward a couple of years: Today it's strip shops with all the popular names plus independents. Just got a Hobby Lobby (heavy duty internet seller) and a big chain sporting goods store....Academy as I recall which is expanding in the area.
Obviously these chain brick and mortar establishments read the "walls" before jumping in but did so I guess coexistence is the norm.....at least for now. I for one patronize both systems. Just depends.
Fast forward a couple of years: Today it's strip shops with all the popular names plus independents. Just got a Hobby Lobby (heavy duty internet seller) and a big chain sporting goods store....Academy as I recall which is expanding in the area.
Obviously these chain brick and mortar establishments read the "walls" before jumping in but did so I guess coexistence is the norm.....at least for now. I for one patronize both systems. Just depends.
What tax incentive? When you build a brick and mortar building you pay taxes on the wages, taxes on the material used in construction, sales taxes on the equipment bought to put the building up, property taxes on the equipment owned to put up the building. Then when you are done you get to pay property taxes on the building.
You don't seem to understand how taxes work.
TAX:
1. a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
2. a strain or heavy demand.
You don't seem to understand how taxes work.
TAX:
1. a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
2. a strain or heavy demand.
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