my ex wife that I haven't spoke to for say 4 years now has got a ccw.i ran into her in a store and seen it on her hip.the issue is shes bipolar,and has been treated many times by the county/state mental health dept,she refused to take her meds,(the reason we divorced).should I say something to someone or just keep my mouth shut ??
- Thread starter 88-1175
- Start date
Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
You would probably be doing everyone a favor and her as well to report it. Should she shoot someone she would spend decades in jail.
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
You can, but unless she commits a crime, followed by a conviction, chances are the permit will not be revoked.
Do you think she really has a permit, or just carrying it, hoping no one will ask?
I understand your concern over the bipolar issue. I've know some people that were, they can be quite scary!
Had a GF many years ago that was diagnosed bipolar. She had a very vivid imagination as to what I "might" be doing behind her back. Very unpredictable behavior, mostly verbal confrontations, but glad she didn't have access to weapons! Got rid of her quick!
Do you think she really has a permit, or just carrying it, hoping no one will ask?
I understand your concern over the bipolar issue. I've know some people that were, they can be quite scary!
Had a GF many years ago that was diagnosed bipolar. She had a very vivid imagination as to what I "might" be doing behind her back. Very unpredictable behavior, mostly verbal confrontations, but glad she didn't have access to weapons! Got rid of her quick!
Rollie NE PA
Well-known Member
If you were able to see it on her hip then in fact was it concealed? My point is that your state may be a open carry state and a concealed carry permit is not needed?
Brian G. NY
Well-known Member
After working in the prison system for may years, I got a kick out of hearing that phrase again.
Try to find a phone booth today.....it sure won't cost you a dime anymore! LOL
muleboss
Member
- Location
- Burlington, Kansas
If he seen it on her hip (as he stated) then it probably is not rumor.
Maybe she is taking her meds now. How do you know. You would hate to cause trouble for her if she is trying to take meds and be responsible. I can understand your concern though. I think I would look on it as none of my business. Sort of like you see people in bars who are going to drive home. Do you call the cops on them? It's just one of those things.
farmer boy
Well-known Member
I didn't read all the replies, but really and truly, this is what you guys need for gun control. People close to a person, that knows whether said person is mentally stable enough to have a gun. Most shootings could be prevented if someone close to the perpetrator spoke up prior to said event and said this person shouldn't have a/access to a gun.
Has she ever been involuntarily committed to a hospital/health care facility for a mental health condition or other treatment, or adjudicated incompetent/incapacitated?
Assuming she purchased a gun from a licensed dealer, she had to pass a background check. Since she is a concealed carry license holder then she had to pass another background check. I'm guessing you are in PA from reading posts above, they are one of the states that share mental health records with the state/feds for situations like this, it seems she passed their screening and is good to go.
IMHO it's none of your business and should leave it alone. The facts are she is lawfully possessing and carrying the firearm ( no license needed for open carry in PA) At this point what information you have is speculation and hearsay. Even though her use of medication is still none of your business, medication is not required or solely used for treatments of diseases or illnesses.
Assuming she purchased a gun from a licensed dealer, she had to pass a background check. Since she is a concealed carry license holder then she had to pass another background check. I'm guessing you are in PA from reading posts above, they are one of the states that share mental health records with the state/feds for situations like this, it seems she passed their screening and is good to go.
IMHO it's none of your business and should leave it alone. The facts are she is lawfully possessing and carrying the firearm ( no license needed for open carry in PA) At this point what information you have is speculation and hearsay. Even though her use of medication is still none of your business, medication is not required or solely used for treatments of diseases or illnesses.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
There are federal and state laws which prohibit ownership and/or possession of firearms by someone judged to be mentally ill. The problem is that medical records are generally private, so it's just the purchaser's word whether or not they are mentally competent.
If you're certain she holds a CCW, I would report the matter to the board who issued the permit. The can summon her to a hearing where her treatment for mental illness will be evaluated. Otherwise, I'd report it to local law enforcement. If she's bipolar, she probably can't legally possess a firearm, concealed or not.
Possession of firearms by mentally ill person
If you're certain she holds a CCW, I would report the matter to the board who issued the permit. The can summon her to a hearing where her treatment for mental illness will be evaluated. Otherwise, I'd report it to local law enforcement. If she's bipolar, she probably can't legally possess a firearm, concealed or not.
Possession of firearms by mentally ill person
She should not even own a gun because the forms for ccw and when you by gun ask if you have been treated for any mental problems. If she said no she has lied and opens her up for arrest.He said that there were state and local records of bipolar so it should of been found when applying for ccw permit and back round check for gun.
88:
You did not tell us whether she carries concealed or not. If concealed she need a CCP. If open carry in an open carry state, there is no permit required, therefore no scrutiny regarding her mental health. Personally, I should think that you, personally would be one most at risk if she is as unstable as you think. Your action may save yours or someone else's life. But then again, perhaps inquiry by law enforcement could push her into using her weapon on someone she perceives as a snitch. It is a tough situation for sure.
Look what happened just yesterday in Ft. Lauderdale when someone with known mental issues was allowed to handle a gun!!
You did not tell us whether she carries concealed or not. If concealed she need a CCP. If open carry in an open carry state, there is no permit required, therefore no scrutiny regarding her mental health. Personally, I should think that you, personally would be one most at risk if she is as unstable as you think. Your action may save yours or someone else's life. But then again, perhaps inquiry by law enforcement could push her into using her weapon on someone she perceives as a snitch. It is a tough situation for sure.
Look what happened just yesterday in Ft. Lauderdale when someone with known mental issues was allowed to handle a gun!!
I am a very hardcore supporter of individual gun rights. That being said, if you know in fact that shes bi-polar, has a history of not taking meds, has been treated for a serious mental disease (not just stress induced depression or garbage like that) then as a gun rights supporter I would say you are well within your rights and responsibilities to report the situation. The Ft Lauderdale shooter apparently had mental issues, and yet the system failed to keep him from obtaining a firearm. SOMEONE should have reported it and kept after them, just as you should. The mental health system is a joke in this nation and it's up to us to keep after the powers that be to weed out the nuts and criminals. Otherwise the sane and law abiding are going to lose their rights.
I'm not disputing that she had a firearm, I'm talking about whether she's nuts or not, that's the rumor part. He also clearly stated he has not
spoken to her in 4 years though it is unclear how long they have been divorced, there is usually not much love lost between ex's so who would
want their ex making judgement calls on them without any recent evidence to support the claim?
spoken to her in 4 years though it is unclear how long they have been divorced, there is usually not much love lost between ex's so who would
want their ex making judgement calls on them without any recent evidence to support the claim?
Texasmark1
Well-known Member
.........because they make the person feel bad. I know of such a case (no gun involved but other types of weapons) and during the tantrums he is extremely violent and acts accordingly. Can't hold a job so lives off mommy who puts up with it. When the family gets tired of it they will do something about it, surely. None of my business right now as I don't know the whole story......just what I repeated via heresy.
1948CaseVAI
Well-known Member
Sure. You will open up all kinds or revenge and hate issues and start more fights than you can count. Go ahead and encourage snitching if you want, but after 21 years as a cop in a city of 350,000 I have learned to really detest snitches.
At gun shows there is no background checks required to purchase a gun and no selling records kept. And unless they have had a problem they will not even ask if has a permit. Very likely she got it at one of those gun shows that are a place for theives to get rid of the guns they stole with nothing to connect them to ever having it in their posession. A large one 20 mile from me held every year at the fairgrounds. Most likely any identification removed so it cannot be traced from the orignal legal purchaser that had it stolen in a home invasion. And if a need to carry I believe it should be out in the open. A lot of the stolen guns are from being acosted and the gun stollen before the carrier even knows the are having a problem.
you may want to check your information. A person son with a Federal Firearms License (FFL) HAS to by law conduct a background check for every sale they make regardless of whether it is at a gun show or in a gun store, it is federal law applying to all 50 states no exceptions. However it is up to the states whether itr not they require a background check on a private sale, as if you sell me a gun of yours. Most states do not require this background check. It is also highly illegal to possess a gun with the serial number removed, I think it's a 10 year sentence, so even if you didn't steal it you are on the hook for just possessing such a weapon. The one place you were correct was that thieves do sell weapons, but a study done in Texas with incarcerated people found that less than 5% got their guns at gun shows but a vast majority of them bought them on the streets.
Absolute hogwash!!! Any dealer at a gun show has to comply with the same regs he has to abide by at his store. In some states any purchase of any kind has to go through the same check as at a store. It is a Federal crime to remove the serial number from any gun and a state crime in many places too. I don't know where you got these "facts", but you should look for better sources of info.
And if the same 2 people made the transaction in the parking lot of the police department we would call it the police loophole? How about a Walmart parking lot? Maybe you are just making sure we are all on the same page as far as terminology too, however it is a misleading term. It is a private party sale, the same as if I sold a gun to my neighbor or old college classmate. Location of the sale has nothing to do with it.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
WOW!!! Talk about being mis-informed. Obviously YOU have NOT ever attended a gun show!!
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
I agree. I'm from Indiana and attend gun shows and if and when I purchase firearms, I have to fill out the same form that I have to fill out at gun shops, whether it be the paper form that most still use or the computerized version that Cabela's uses...AND then the seller has to call the FBI and make sure that I am not on their "do not sell to" list. I often joke that the agents that have to take those calls are on somebody high up at the FBI's list of unliked agents, so they get stuck with those calls. That's for state residents. For out of state residents, there is a 3 day waiting period, AND then the firearm(s) has to be delivered to an FFL in the buyers state where they can then go pickup the firearm(s). Every time that I hear about no back ground checks at gun shows, I scratch my head and wonder what states don't have to comply with the same federal laws or use the same federal form that Indiana has to comply with and use.
Mark
Mark
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
In Iowa, the background check (NICS) is done when you apply for a concealed carry permit. Take that permit with you to the gun show. You still have to fill out the paper work for registering the firearm, but there is no need for another background check.
If you do not already have a concealed carry permit, MOST of the dealers will tell you to come back when you do have it. They don't have time for someone who is trying to find a loophole.
I take it you haven't been to many gun shows. At almost every gun show you will find guys making private sales out in parking lot ( no paper or back round check). This is what your anti gun people call gun show loop hole and want it stopped. If you buy from one of these guys you don't know if gun is hot or not and if you sell to one of them you don't know if they can legally own it.
Wrong! "The Gunshow Loophole" was exactly what it sounds like, a loophole that allowed dealers to sell at a gunshow without a background check or 4473 form. Hasn't existed in years, despite attempts by agenda driven media to make it sound like it still exists.
Private party sales are perfectly legal at gun shows, private homes, churches, parking lots, ball fields, where ever- as long as state laws are followed. In some states even private sales require a background check. The Federal gov't has no authority to regulate firearms sales in a non-Interstatre Commerce situation, anymore than they can regulate you selling your car or tractor or chainsaw. That is a state issue.
People need to do their homework before they start repeating inaccurate or just plain wrong information.
And if you buy a tractor or tv or tools or shoes or anything else from Craigslist or a classified ad in the paper, how do you know it's not stolen? Fer cryin' out loud man, should the govt have a say in every single sale made? It's your property, if you want to sell a gun or tire or dog, it's none of the gov'ts business!
You are correct when you think I haven't been to many gun shows, however I do understand the situation. My issue is this, depending on the state this private transaction is perfectly legal whether it takes place in a gun show parking lot or your basement. Some states, California being one, require ALL firearm transfers to be done with a background check. I cannot begin to believe that this has stopped anyone who truly wanted a gun from obtaining one, or maybe it's because Arizona is to blame lol. The "gun show loophole" bs is just a scary name to for private purchase.
It's legal to sell but You over looking one thing. If you sell a gun to a felon not knowing he is a felon and he commits a crime with that gun it can come back to bite you because you are not to sell to a felon.When you buy a gun in parking lot how do you know if that gun is not hot.
The same reason you can't predict that the car you just bought won't blow up in the next 50 miles, the same way you can't know that the guy working at Chuck E cheese isn't a pedophile, the same way you don't know that the wrenches you bought aren't stolen. There are never any guarantees in life. Most people who buy stolen guns know they are hot when they buy them, I used to have friends that kinda ran on the edge of that group. Last report by the anti 2A people said that 20% of firearm transfers were done without checks, then consider how many of these were actually illegal (which is a guess). Then consider in a country with 320+ million firearms, 12 trillion rounds of ammo in the hands of at least 130 million people and we have 11000 homicides a year of which, by FBI stats, 80% are gang/drug related. Those are the people that deal in stolen guns which don't involve a background check in any state.
Again, if you buy a tractor off Craigslist, how do you know it's not hot? What's your point? Anyone can buy something stolen without knowing it. There are a lot more electronics and phones and tools stolen each year than guns. Have you ever bought something at a flea market or off CL and checked to see if it's stolen? No, yo haven't. Have you ever bought US military equipment like a field jacket or maybe some camping gear off CL near a military base? 99% chance it was "liberated" off the base and is in essence stolen. Did you do a background check on that? Nope.
And for the record, if you sell a gun to a felon without knowing he was a felon, you really don't stand much chance of getting a ticket to the big house. I've never seen it in over 20 years of police work. It's not your responsibility to determine if he is or isn't a felon or otherwise barred from purchasing or possessing a firearm unless there is a state law requiring that as there is in my state. OTOH, if you KNOWINGLY sell or buy a gun from a felon or with knowledge it's likely stolen, thats a whole 'nuther can of worms.
All you're doing is repeating the lines from the anti-gun agenda. The reality is that studies show few criminals buy guns at gun shows or gun stores or from legal gun owners. Studies show most get their guns either buy stealing them, getting them from another criminal or through the black market. Whats needed is a better system than what we have now for rooting out the insane, the criminals and the terrorists. Joe Average gun owner is going to go his whole life without ever doing anything illegal with his guns. But he's the guy that is punished for the criminals and the mentally ills actions. Thats wrong on multiple levels.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
What we need to do is fix our broken mental health care system.
This is a quote from the link that you provided: [i:af6cfddc8f]'The truth about the risk of violence among bipolar people is complicated. By some estimates, between 11 and 16 percent of people with bipolar disorder have had a violent episode.'
[/i:af6cfddc8f]
Petty good odds if you're talking about the winner of a tiddlywinks match. Life or death, not so good!
I would AT LEAST let local enforcement know! 8)
Lol. We're on the same page if you read my
first post on it. But once again to be the
devil's advocate, that 11%-16% is all
violence. I wonder what the homicidal rate
is? Obviously much lower with the first
indicator being violent tendencies. I am
just trying to point out that the violence
rate among some mental illnesses is really
no larger than that of the general
population.
first post on it. But once again to be the
devil's advocate, that 11%-16% is all
violence. I wonder what the homicidal rate
is? Obviously much lower with the first
indicator being violent tendencies. I am
just trying to point out that the violence
rate among some mental illnesses is really
no larger than that of the general
population.
I agree entirely. But, that's hard to do and takes a lot of work. The easy answer for politicians is to keep chipping away at our gun rights so that it looks like they're doing something. Taking guns away from the sane, non-criminal, responsible gun owner does nothing to affect the mentally unstable, the criminals, the gang and drug crowd. But it's a lot easier than actually working on the nut jobs and crooks!
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