Power Shift - A Few Questions

IH had a TA, Deere had a synchro and powershift, Oliver had an over/under for 3 ranges and Allis Chalmers had a power director.

Did all of these type transmissions allow for fully loaded, non-stop, no clutch shifting when in the field? How is it possible to essentially go to another gear under load without clutching, stopping and changing gears?

Just curious.

Thanks!
Bill

TA had a clutch built in as did the oliver and I think the allis , however I too , don't understand a PowerShift.

In the TA and ofer/under, a clutch was used to direct power through reduction gears (usually planetary like a automatic trans) or just a rotating gear set. The torque reaction was usually taken by a one way clutch, and on the bigger tractors, a multi plate hydraulic locking clutch that prevented freewheeling. Jim

The power shift was different than the rest. The rest were more or less standard gearboxes with something ahead of them... and that something was a two or 3 speed gearbox that was shiftable on the go. With a TA, you had the speed you were in, or you could engage the TA, which slowed the tractor by about a 1/3rd. You did not necessarily switch to the next slowest speed, you just slowed down as much as the TA was geared for. The TA was essentially a planetary gear box that would allow for the slower speed. Either you were in direct drive, or the planetary slowed things down. A clutch engaged and disengaged things.

I believe Oliver was similar. Hopefully someone will explain that! There was also MM ampli-torq, which I think was similar to TA.

Power shift in Deere's case was essentially a series of planetary boxes, that were engaged by a number of hydraulic clutch plates. Shifting meant one clutch engaged and another disengaged, and it changed the sequence of how the power was directed through the series of planetaries. This system allowed you to go from neutral through road gear without ever using the clutch. The others required using the clutch between the main gears, but you could shift the hi/lo without clutching.

Clear as mud, right?

Basically the same way an automotive automatic transmission does. Hydraulically applied wet clutch packs engage and disengage to route power through different gear trains. The different gear trains (generally planetary sets) are constantly in mesh therefore no mechanical mesh or teeth clashing takes place to provide the different "gears". So that description covers a full powershift. The IH TA works a little different as it relies on a one way clutch to take the load from a reduction planetary gear set in the low range. A straight through direct lock clutch provided the hi TA range. I think the one way clutch may have also been used for the under range in the Oliver. I'll let someone else explain that in more detail. Have you ever looked up the "how things work website"? It explains the workings of many things such as an automatic transmission in pretty good leymans terms.

Within the range of whatever device it was allowed for fully under load shifting was standard. To answer the question about the Power Shift it was an extension of the other devices with a series of clutches, planetary, and brakes to hold the planetary with valving and porting to alternate combinations of those features applied. As for the simpler devices let us not forget Minneapolis Moline's Ampli-Torq, MF's Multi-power, and Case's Case-O-Matic. Then for the full range there was also Ford's selecto-speed. The early mechanical TA's and the Oliver Over/ Under in underdrive did have the disadvantage of wanting to coast down hill.

I guess I'll add that the Allis "Big Stick", the MF "Multi-power" and the Moline "Ampli-torq" were all "knock off" designs of the IH TA.

Hey guys you need to read the Harold Brock story. He invented the ford select-o-speed and then either quit or got fired from ford and went to work for john deere further perfecting the select-o speed which deere labeled powershift . Even in later tractors the powershift tranny factory provided transmissions for many other modern makes of tractors including Case IH, new Holland, etc

You are a generation behind. Todays technology offers constant and variable speed trannies with hydrostatic planitaries and multiple computer controled clutch packs to adjust speed requirements with implement loads and available HP and traction to optomise production. For example whem pulling a deep tillage unit you want the tractor to maintain optimum speed and traction control. When pulling a sprayer, you want perfect speed control on rolling ground .No more PS lever and draft control levers for the operator to control. Just a computer touch pad to set parameters.
Loren

(quoted from post at 19:10:59 12/27/16) Hey guys you need to read the Harold Brock story. He invented the ford select-o-speed and then either quit or got fired from ford and went to work for john deere further perfecting the select-o speed which deere labeled powershift . Even in later tractors the powershift tranny factory provided transmissions for many other modern makes of tractors including Case IH, new Holland, etc

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" further perfecting the select-o speed which deere labeled powershift:

IMHO, there's NO family lineage between the Select-o-speed and the Deere powershift other than using planetary gearsets (which dates back to the Ford Model "T" car and earlier), the Powershift basically started on a clean slate.

As to making power shift transmissions for other companies, even today, that would be the Funk division, acquired by DEERE in 1989.

I don't know about the MF, or the MM, but I wouldn't compare the AC power director to the IH TA at all. It was a lever which had three positions, low, neutral, and high. Each side(low and high) had its own clutch pack. In whatever transmission gear was chosen, you could stop and start, with either low or high, or shift on the go between low and high with that lever. There was no free-wheeling.
These clutch packs ran in oil, therefore could be slipped, were long lived, and could be adjusted easily. Engine clutch life could therefore be lengthened dramatically.

Simple explanation of a power shift is that everything is always turning. Output speeds are determined by which clutches/brakes are applied. Yes, you can go through all speeds on a power shift without clutching, but it will be jerky, unless you feather the clutch (inching pedal). 15 speed powershift is much smoother than the 8 speed, because speed changes are less drastic.

The Case-o-matic from case was a totally different system from the rest as there was no actual speed change. You had basically the same system as a modern auto trany in a car today with a torque converter but with a manual lock up and no shifting. When you are in direct the converter is locked allowing no slippage. In torque mode the converter was allowed to slip which perfectly matched engine power to load, the harder it pulled the slower you went til wheel slippage occured. As the load ligtened you gained speed til you got close enough and could lock up the converter again. This system worked especially well with heavy pto loads like running a chopper because as the pto load pulled down the engine the wheel speed slowed at a higher proportion so that the engine could stay in the power band with almost infinately variable and automatically adjusted speeds in your chosen gear.

I don't have much time on all those brands, but have driven most a little. Most give you an extra speed or two in whatever transmission gear you are in. The Deere power shift is totally different, in that there's no "gear" shifting. It's the only one with lasting power, from back in the day, which meets the criteria of your last sentence. Fully loaded, from a stop, you can move the lever forward, all the way to road speed, with no clutching. That's why I have a 1965 4020.

Oliver engineers patented the CVT transmission in 1968. White Motors was pretty much broke and it never went in to production though. There was a whole new tractor in development that would have used it,but White never tooled up to build them.

The AC Power Director shifts from high to low anytime without using the foot clutch because its also a clutch as it has a neutral between high and low.Go thru it quickly and you don't notice.Also the AC holds back in low range and its fine to operate the tractor in either full time.Both my D15 and D19 have that set up great to run and operate.

(quoted from post at 17:10:59 12/27/16) Hey guys you need to read the Harold Brock story. He invented the ford select-o-speed and then either quit or got fired from ford and went to work for john deere further perfecting the select-o speed which deere labeled powershift . Even in later tractors the powershift tranny factory provided transmissions for many other modern makes of tractors including Case IH, new Holland, etc

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I have read the Harold Brock story, but perhaps not the one that you are referring to. I get the impression that he kind of liked to see things described in a way that gives him a lead role. I have read elsewhere that he was an executive at Ford at the time, but had very little to do with the SOS. Ford can also be remembered for the "Dual Power" which is a very nice unit, and may even still be in production. I know that they were still offering them in the late nineties.

The way I heard it,he was chief engineer on the SOS project. He was off for some reason,seems like it was medical. He told them it wasn't ready for production yet,but they did it anyway.

On Jan. 2, 2011, at the ripe old age of 96, Harold Brock from Waterloo, Iowa, died peacefully at his home. So what, you ask?
Design
Well, because Harold Brock was in charge of the design phase of two of the most popular farm tractors in U.S. history ? and for two completely different manufacturers. Ford and Deere & Co.
Transmission woes
In 1959, Brock?s boss insisted upon putting an automatic power-shift transmission into the new Ford x01 series tractors. Brock refused to approve the transmission after testing the thing, believing it to be a defective design that would prove to be unreliable.
Brock wrote later, ?I suggested that if they wanted to put the transmission into production they should obtain a new chief engineer. This they did. They fired me and subsequently put the transmission into production.?
Almost immediately he was approached by Deere & Company?s Waterloo Product Engineering Center to help with the design of the replacements for the venerable and popular line of two-cylinder tractors.
Meanwhile back at Ford, an automatic transmission called Select-O-Speed was made available on Ford tractors. The Select-O-Speed transmissions have been reviled as no good ever since, although some operators had no problems and love them.
Tractor legacy
Brock was put in charge of the design group for the Deere 4020 tractor, which he said would not go to production until all the bugs were worked out of the power shift transmission. The model 4020 was introduced in 1963 and featured the first successful full powershift transmission, along with many other improvements. The Brock John Deere 4020 remained in the Deere lineup until 1968 when several design changes were made but the powershift transmission remained the same due to it's flawless operation, and many are still earning their keep on American farms today.

I've got a 4440 with the quad shift and an 886 with the TA. Although they aren't but a couple of years apart that 4440 is light years ahead. I know that IH had one in the plans but were in financial straights, but it makes me wonder what they could have had in the 86 series if they hadn't gone under. Don't get me wrong, the 886 is my favorite tractor for some reason, but only having one gear to split (with the TA) without stopping to shift (like the JD with 1-4 gears shift on the move in one letter range) is a pain. When it gets right down to it you usually stay within a gear or two anyway, and having a loader in the 886 is much easier. Going between 2 high and 2 reverse is simple. The 4440 would take a little more movement. The reverses in B range are a bit fast but the forward gears in A range are too slow, so then you are moving range and gear to load bales and feed.

JD had a MIV transmission they almost put into production in the late 60s. Difficulty in manufacturing and cost shelved it although it worked.

Normally knock offs aren't better than the originals, but there's always exceptions, aren't there?
I don't know when the TA came out, but other than the power director and the TA both being a 2 speed 'powershift', they really aren't all that simliar. The power director, you can pull it into low any ole time you wanted with no ill effects. It also saved wear on the main dry clutch. There's also the fact that the power director never had a delete kit made for it, where as the TA certainly did. As much as I like IH, they never could figure out how to properly run clutches in oil.
I've seen posts before saying that all the TA's problems were due to operator abuse/improper use/maintenance. I agree with that about as much as I'll agree with guys saying that Allis tractors jumping out of gear was due to operator abuse. It was a poor crappy design, and that's all there is too it.

Ok, I recant on the Allis design. I shot from the hip on that one, I am not that familiar with those. I did have it explained to me one time with the source using the "knock off" term, apparently that info was incorrect.

Ever drove a magnum?
That's what ihc could have built.
The sts from the 5488 shares many rear-end parts.

I've only owned 1 Ford with SOS in my life a Ford 6000 Commander and it couldn't have been a better tractor,never had a problem with the transmission.My opinion is the biggest problem with those trans were the operators,some people can tear up anything.

(quoted from post at 23:04:23 12/27/16)

The model 4020 was introduced in 1963 and featured the first successful full powershift transmission, along with many other improvements.

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I thought powershift trans wasn't introduced until '65 but definitely not '63

I agree. Keeping the 4x2 transmission with a TA was huge mistake in the 86 series. That should have been plain to everyone with the 66 series. IH had some pretty good engines but they were a decade (or more) behind with their transmissions.

I've never been in a Magnum. Part of the issue here is dealer support. There's nothing but one chain that makes me want to scream. They have been around a while and their path of destruction runs wide.

I almost didn't buy my 886 in case I needed dealer support. It's been perfectly flawless, though. I'd love to have a Magnum but they just aren't really around here. The few boys that have them hold onto them, though.

They were out by 1964 for sure because we had one in a
4020. My literature also proves this.