So here is what the guy wants for the bins...

Butler bins, one 3500 and one 3000 bushel. The smaller is from the late 1980's and the larger close to that. They both came with full aeration floors and have the original 110v fans. There is a very nice unloading power head with a 220v motor on it. All doors, etc work fine. Ladders inside and out. A circuit box with three breakers (power head, and two fans) is included along with all the wiring, etc. The floors are whatever style Butler sold at the time and are on steel supports. Bins have been kept painted and look extremely clean inside and out. There is no sign of rust at the base or anywhere else. Probably some surface rust under the paint but I see no evidence of pitting or thru rust...and I am good at finding it, believe me. The best price I have been able to negotiate on this package is just over $5,000. I will need new fasteners, caulk, and I have to provide all the labor. I was a little surprised at the price, but seller is firm and this is a fair amount lower than what he wanted. Still trying to get my head around this and decide what to do.

Some things to consider. This is Michigan. There are a lot of small farms and small equipment can be more expensive here at times. I am not sure I will get $5K back out of these bins but they will make my life a lot easier. I'm an accountant, but I take into consideration both factors. This is TWO smaller bins instead of the one larger...more versatility. They match my current level of operating and that is not likely to increase in the near future. Just some of my thoughts. Also, there is a similar Butler bin (4000 bushel) at the local consignment auction. Condition is not quite as good and it has no unloader head, not so much venting, and the aeration floor is only a small square in the center..not full. 30 hours left on auction and the bin is at $1600. Likewise, I have to consider what this package would cost me if I bought new.

Then I take into consideration the opinions of the forum. I hugely use this type of input in my operation each year. I had fellas here who put value on this package from zero or "scrap" to maybe $4K. So what follows is my thoughts on a couple of these:

The fella who estimated $3-4K said he was coming in a little low because they were Butler and there may be issues with parts. This fella has a huge farm resume and sits on the top 10 list of people who help me with farm issues. Don't know if he took into account the unloader head and the electrical.

Another fella came in around $2K. Helps me a lot with issues on the combine and misc and I respect his opinions. Also not sure if head/electric is in there. I can see where he gets this number. I attend a lot of auctions. Bins sometimes go cheap, but there can be issues with moving and timetables that make this difficult. Would be thrilled if the seller would take it.

Those that came in at zero or scrap? Don't know what to say there. I understand that in areas where monster farms exist, these bins will not be popular. But I just do not see this price around here. The unloader head is over $1K new and is in great shape. The electrical panel and circuit breakers have value. The bins themselves are solid and have collective parts worth more than scrap. Folks in this category need to explain their positions better I think.

So those are some of the factors I am weighing. I am including a link to the auction bin. Again, this is NOT one of the bins I am considering. I have the original bins I looked at locked up. They are not going anywhere while I finish mulling this over. Anyone has any comments they think will help...


Local auction bin

I am not a crop farmer so take this for what it is worth. I attend farm auctions a few times per year here in MO. I usually am looking at smaller 3 point attachments and the like. I do see a lot of the smaller grain handling equipment being sold and like you are saying the smaller stuff in excellent condition does go for higher prices.

As to buying the equipment I to rely on friends and the great folks on YT for advice on things. In the end it comes down you what you want and if you are willing to pay the price.

I recently purchased a 3 bottom plow. Overall the plow was in decent condition. It needed new shins and shares. I got the plow for $180 and put another $150 or so into the parts.

I could have found one in better condition but would have had to drive longer distance to get one and those were not exactly what I wanted. So in the end I got what I wanted even with having to buy some new parts.

In you case I would say if these meet your needs, are exactly what you want option wise and the cost to move is not excessive pull the trigger.

It is not that often that we find what we are wanting used with all the options we are looking for.

Just my 2 cents and it is worth what you paid for it.

Hope this helped a little bit.

I haven't read you're whole story, except that you were having trouble getting into the elevator. Did you ever say that you've priced a new bin? It would definitely be worth finding out before you spend 5K for two used ones, then spend probably another 5K to pour pads, tear them down, move them, and rebuild them.

I'm one of those guys who say they're worth scrap or maybe a little better. I've seen a lot of bins sell at sales for scrap price or less. I've even seen them get a NO SALE at an auction. I've seen a lot of bins of that size simply get crushed and hauled to scrap. I was given a 4000 bu 18X18 bin for the taking down. It is sitting in pieces in one of my grandpa's old hog buildings, waiting for that year I pour a pad and put it up. We still have a lot of small farms here, too, but small bins just aren't worth much where I am.

Mind you, I'm NOT a Farmer, not even close. I'm a Miner, but if those bins were a lot closer to me here in So. Nevada, I'd grab them & RUN. lol - I Know of several people who would gladly pay $5,000. for ONE of those bins just to convert it into a house/cottage/cabin .

:>)

the internet bid will increase dramtically at the close, to perhaps 2800,.. that is the highest price anyone is willing to pay in a 100 mile radius .. pay attention to the bidders history,.. 3 or more active bidders would command a true price ,. only 2 active bidders indicates that both bidders need a bin badly

We still use 4 of these 3000 bu "govt" bins. For us they are a hassle except for storing corn to grind out of. If you are hauling yourself the middle unload is ok, we have a REM vac so would not install that hassle in small bin. If I remember you farm small number of acres so might be just the thing. If close look into having them moved though you could be surprised how cheap it an be done. Sounds like you are wanting to pull trigger on deal so go for it.

thecombineforum.com is saying new installed price for a bin averages $1.68 to $2.05 a bushel. The bigger they are the cheaper they are.

Seriously, get a price on a new one. That will help make your decision.

Two things came to mind. As I recall, there wasn't a sweep auger included. When you have about 500 bushel left you have to have one. Have to.

Second - I worry a little about the 110 fans. Mine are 220. There is a lot of crop there and it will be quite a pull. I don't know who made them, but ask if he's ever had to replace them.

Bins are cheap here but they are always rusted to death. I haven't seen any that size sell.

He's high for used. I just looked up what I paid for a 15k bu Brock in 2013. The bin was $20,500- included a new bin, full floor,big fan, power sweep and unload auger, stairs and handrail, roof vents for cooling.

Came to a $1.35 a bu. for the bin and equipment. You are looking at paying .77/bu for something 30 plus years old you need to take down. And you will need new hardware, and may find the bottom sheets are deteriorated next to the ground.

Steel prices have gone down since then, too...

Both of my bins have 110v fans, 2 or 3 hp, you just need a heavy enough circuit and fuse to start them. My sweep auger is 20 years old and answers to Anna....good helper! Ben

I would start talking to some local bin companies to find your alternatives and make some comparisons.

What would two new bins cost if: 1. the bin company builds them from scratch or 2. if you pour the concrete pad and assemble the bin yourself? I would not want to invest over 40 percent of new cost for almost 30 year old bins and equipment.

Can a drying fan be added to one of the bins and what would it cost? If you are pouring new pads for the bins and installing new wiring to the bin site, now would be the time to build an air plenum into the pad and wire the site for a drying fan, probably 5 HP minimum. A 7.5 HP dryer would give you more drying capacity or allow you to dry with less heat, reducing your fuel costs. Keep in mind that taller columns of grain restrict air flow more. Drying bins are sometimes run as batch dryers, they are emptied often to keep a with a wide, low column of grain until all the other storage is filled.

Are there any local bin moving outfits that can move the bins for less that you can do it yourself?

Would one larger bin cost significantly less than two smaller bins?

Do as much research as you can on grain drying before you build a new bin site.

The fans may be wired for 120 vac now, but I'll bet they can be wired for 240 vac.

I will hunt up a sweep auger. I already told my wife that having an 18' circle with corn piled 5' along the walls tapering down to 0 at the center and me standing there with a push broom and a grain scoop ain't happening!!!!

Thank you, and if you look down, you will see I am researching this to death and my questions here are only about a third of what I am doing. Question for you. If I want a drying fan, what is the "air plenum" about? The bins have full aeration floors. Don't I use the same air flow pattern?

Just for the sake of discussion, and I am not being argumentative just trying to tap your knowledge base, would not these smaller bins be higher on a per bushel cost? These bins work out to between $2000-2500 each depending on how much you want to allocate to the power head and electrics. Most of the used bins I am seeing do not have these things. I have not talked to any salesmen. All the websites say "call for quote" and I HATE that. I will be pestered for months after. So I do not know the price on a new bin of the size I am looking at. What I do know is that I cannot afford a new bin and never will be able to, and that is based on your lower cost of $1.35. So the nicest used bins I can find are what I need to get. I wish I could get a cost on a new one without getting on the salesman's call list.

Yes, but that is just another forum. The prices are what I would expect, but they are installed prices so difficult to compare.

No, no no and no. I am NOT wanting to pull the trigger. To be honest, what I want is to pay one heckuva lot less! This is a lot of money for me at year end after a tough drought year and with all the financial issues (combine repair, LC payoff, etc) I had to resolve last year. But I really don't want to walk away and find out I passed up something I should not have. I think you understand...we all have done it.

I agree....I am watching it.

You are probably right. I REALLY appreciate all the input here, it is helping me a lot with my decision!

Those little bins around here will bring 800 to 900 bucks.I've seen 10000 bushel bins bring 2500 on sales.Saw a 35000 bushel Bin with a shivers grain drying system with fan bring 19000 on a sale.It was only 3 years old.Some of them cost more to move than there worth.

Areation fans pull or push a low flow of air thru grain, just enough air flow to keep already dry grain from spoiling.

A dryer fan is a much larger fan with a large gas burner to push a high flow of dry/heated air through wet grain to dry the grain. You can adjust the heat rise to balance drying capacity and fuel economy. Some years in dry weather drying bins with high airflows can sometimes run without any heat in the daytime and maybe only ten F heat rise at night when the humidity rises.

By contrast continuous flow dryers push much higher temperature air thru a thin column of grain to dry it very quickly. They often have some form of heat recovery to preheat incoming wet grain with the hot moist exhaust air from the dryer section. Continuous flow dryers are less efficient but have much higher capacity than bin dryers. Some livestock feeders prefer grain dried at lower temperatures because of the higher grain quality.

An air plenum is just the air ducts between the fan and the drying floor. A good plenum distributes a narrow flow of very high velocity air coming off the fan into a wide area of high pressure low velocity air at the drying floor without much energy loss. A poorly designed plenum that has a lot of restrictions and sharp turns and a lot of turbulence can yield low air flows and high energy losses, much like some poorly designed furnace ducts, hydraulic lines or water pipes.

There is a lot of information on grain drying available from equipment manufactures, dealers and state extension services. Some Ag colleges publish info and post it online for their state extension services: Michigan State University, Iowa State University, Purdue, U of Minnesota, U of Wisconsin, U of Illinois, etc.

Dave don't disagree with your thoughts about getting on the call list. However you are going to want a sweep auger even though the bins are smaller. Been there done that. Call and ask for the price on a sweep and then say "Just for comparison, what would a new bin cost?" The bin guys I've been around can give you an estimate pretty quick without a lot of work and in your case they would know you were probably going to go used.

I think he is to high. My local craigslist has brand new 8000Bu bin with floor,8inch unload, fan,roof vent and inside and outside ladder for $10,900. Tom

Yes, the smaller bin will cost more per bu, but not a whole lot more. The bigger ones need heavier thickness steel side sheets, stiffener bars, etc. Getting cheaper as it gets bigger makes more of a difference between 5,000 and 50000 or 500000, than it does between 5000 and 15ooo.

My point was that while you are saving a little on upfront cost, you aren't saving much... I've always found it cheapest to buy the best I could afford- there usually were a lot of hidden costs in something "cheap".

Keep in mind the $ 1.35 a bushel bought a lot of things you are not getting with these... a power sweep, not just a sweep, a big fan that will move a lot of air, a stairs, a full aeration floor. And it is new, and will probably last twice as long... so capital costs per annum can be divided by twice as many years if you choose.

Keep in mind this is an investment, not a cost. A few weeks ago JD Seller and myself pointed out several ways in which the bin can make you money. The difference in cost between used and new is only .50 a bushel. You can make that back in one year. How much was moisture dockage and shrink on your beans? If you could have harvested when you wanted to, what would it be?

Also remember you will have time in taking this thing down. And risk. You could bend something and need to replace it. You could get hurt. you will still need to buy at least some new fasteners. you will still need to pour a pad. If you got these for say, $1500, it might be worth risking some of the above. $5k however, to me is too much for what is still ahead.

Am I missing something? That's about the same price. You also did not say where...makes a difference. And the size differential. A lot more than I need. Not sure that one isn't and apples and oranges comparison.

Thank, much appreciated! I want you to know that I have all the information you gave me in the past saved in a folder. I was just reading it this AM.

Clever, Bill! I will do that!

Check the Dubuque IA craigslist. They are a dealer for Golden Grain Bins and have other sizes. I have helped move several bins and 5-6000 bu bins usually cost less that $2500. I bought a 6000 bu with no unload or floor for $750 two years ago. I like the two bins you are looking at but it seems like alot of money. I would keep looking as I doubt he will sell his very fast at his price. Sometimes at auctions you can buy good grain bin equipment for pennies on the dollar of new price. But you need to consider if you have time to go to sales or are better off using your time for something else. Tom

In Kansas those sell for $800 to $1200 everyday of the week.


http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/5870624350.html


http://stjoseph.craigslist.org/grd/5890234542.html


For $4200 this guy will provide all the labor and deliver it for you.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/grd/5906552363.html

From what I can see from your pictures,Dave.NEGATIVES=Bins are setting too low to ground(possible rust on bottom ring,only one bin shows a unloading tube in sidewall,neither bin is going tobe any good for wet corn,beans fine.For wet corn to keep more then a week,add $2 to $4000 per bin.Roughly to put those bins up right(bolts-Sealers)+concrete you will have $9 to $10000+and still not be set up to handle wet corn.New prices in "Fastline"ads for same (equipment)size bins,$5300 plus the unloading auger.You DON"T need that incline head if you put your concrete in right.Now is the time to buy new,because of discounts.Do it right the first time as the second or third time costs so much more.

I didn't read everything.

Used small bin is worth 10 cents a bu, so you have $650 worth of bins there. For real good condition, you could say $1000 if you want.

Floor is worth $400, X 2 is $800.

The unload tube I'm not sure if you get 2, or just 2 tubes and one auger and head, could be another $500-750.

Fans are $100 at auction X 2 is $200.

I see $3000 of stuff there. If it were in my neighborhood.

Have you priced new bins, just the sheet metal, so you know what new costs? Often the sheet metal is the cheapest part, it's the concrete work and all the floor and unload that costs.

If I recall your situation, you kinda desperately need some storage because your elevator situation is bad, so you have to weigh what new costs, what doing nothing costs, and what this $3000 - 5000 pile of metal costs.

Or pays you back.

I'm not saying do it or don't do it, only you can sort out that last bit of what it costs you for the different options....

Paul

Dave he is a little too high but the bins do look in good condition.

The Golden grain bin that Tom is talking about are some of the cheapest bins made. I do mean CHEAP!!!! Local fellow had three thirty foot Golden Grain bins. HE setup a batch dryer. HE was dumping corn into the Golden grain bins and cooling in them. The one started to buckle right above the air floor. He called the company and they told him the bins were not made to cool grain in. No warranty on bins under a year old. HE had to jack the buckled bin up and install steel stiffeners on the outside of all three of them. After he did that he had more in them than the Brock bins he passed up because of price.

Here is how I look at equipment, and bins are equipment. I will pay a premium for GOOD clean equipment. You can not make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Of all the equipment I have handled over the years I never have had an issue with higher priced CLEAN stuff. So you need to balance the cost against quality. That is in the eye of the beholder. You have been buying the "value" type stuff and doing lots of repairs on it to get it to work. You can do that with bins too. Do you want to put that time an effort into moving and installing your bins??? Only you can answer that.

Also I think this fellow is close to you??? IF that is the case you can easily eat up $500-1000 traveling/hauling bins further away. Compared to new he is not out of line. Compared to the NATIONAL used small bin price he is a little high. I will tell you that the 3000-5000 bushel bins have quit being cheap around here. Guys are setting them on funnel bottoms and using them for holding bins and such.

Truthfully your worrying about $1000-1500 in POSSIBLE saving IF you can find CHEAPER bins in the same condition. These bins are the size that will work for you. They both have air floors. There setup for 8 inch unloading. So they have the features your looking for but at a higher price than the bargain basement stuff. I know what I would do but I am not the one writing the check in this case.

As I have gotten older the joy of buying cheap and spending lots of time/effort to make it good has been replaced by just giving a little more for good to start with. I just do not have the time/ambition/labor to do the type of stuff I used too. I think your labor situation is different now with the daughter at college. Keep that in mind too.

How far from home are the bins? A couple miles away or 20 - 50 miles? What diameter are they? 18' or 21'? They are probably 18'. Ask around your neighbor hood, back in the 1970's when the government sold off all their bin sites about every locale had someone who moved 18' bins sideways on a trailer. There are still a couple guys around here that can move them that way, maybe also in your area. Not sure where you would check, but if not too far, having a helicopter pick them up and set them on your pad might be worth the money. I heard one time about the Army Reserves moving a bin for a guy with a helo during summer training. It doesn't cost anything to ask, worst they can do is say no. What diameter are the fans? 110 volt 12" fans won't move much air for drying, more for aeration. I think you will be better off with a full air floor than a few places in the floor with air coming out of them.
Check out www.agrinews-pubs.com Click on classified ads for bins and dryers. There are a couple of ads from outfits dealing in used bins. A phone call might give you a lot of info even if they are too far away to help you out.
Have you contacted your local FSA office about storage loans? Some areas will loan on used bins and others are new only. Cheap interest and 7 year loans are hard to pass up.
The price seems a little high to me in my area, but your area will be different I'm sure. Around here, the BTO's won't even use a bin smaller than 15,000 bu. Regular farmers will, but smaller bins are pretty much small time farmers only. I'm on shut down between Christmas and New Years if you have questions, let me know and I'll give you my phone number. Chris

I do not know anything about the Golden Grain bins but was just passing along the ad. But I will keep in mind how cheap(poorly built) they are and not buy any used ones. Thanks for the added info. Tom

Way too high. Make him a $2500 offer. Let him sit on it a few months. He'll come back at $4000. You go to $3000 and finally buy for $3500 If Not, walk . you have almost a year to find a better deal. Odds are a " just take them out of here for free" is right around the corner.
Besides beans and corn will be huge money losing crops for the next 4 years unless you get huge federal payments. Now is the time to grt OUT of row crop farming. Get into grains, cover crops and marijuana.

Tom my comment was not meant as any kind of criticism towards you but just Golden Grain brand of bins. They are real bad. Their bottom sheets are thinner than the top sheets on most other brands of bins. I would put GSI as just a little better but not by much. I pulled the roof handle through a GSI bin roof that was just one year old. Darn near fell off the roof on a 9 ring bin.

I have Circle Steel, Brock, Butler, and Conrad bins. They all seem to be built pretty well. Suckup seems to also make a pretty good bin too.

He will never get $5000 for those bins. In your negotiations did you make him an offer? If not, I would offer him $2000. When he says no, I would thank him for his time and continue my search. Before you leave tell him your offer will stand until you find some other ones. After 3-4 month I believe he will accept your offer. With this strategy he will be the one loosing sleep over weather or not he should take your offer. The way it stands now, you are the one loosing sleep. As far as those being real nice bins, yes they are. But there are just as nice of ones standing all over the place. So if he doesn't accept your offer don't worry. You will find nice or nicer ones right around the corner.

I do NOT ever remember of any used bins ever being sold in my area of the country. Only bin ever sold or tried to be sold was a large one put up by a farmer 40 + years ago before you ever heard of drying grain and the elevators did not have dryers. It was sold on property different times and at last it was owned by a junk dealer with junk in. When he sold the property he had to clean it up and that included the bin. Tried at auction, it probably was about 30' diameter, not a bid high enough for the junk dealer to let it go. He just knocked it down for scrap and when it was partly down I saw it was completely rusted to beyound use. But that was the only bin ever to come up for sale. And at 18' it is larger than a lot were. Probably some around not being used but I have no idea were and would have a hard time finding any used ones in any condition. And if you cannot get rid of your crops at harvest time you either do not raise, let stand and go down in field or get bins, that may not pencil out if you could get rid of crop at elevator but bight keep you from looseing everything by not being able to harvest it. And then the bins give you a choice of when to sell and also to where to sell as in off time you mught be able to go 50 mile farther to a terminal that you could not do in harvest because of the time and make up the cost of the bin there. And to me multiple smaller bins is worth way more than one big one. Gives you a choice of crops you want to raise. He might even want one for his oats. But finding used is not a given like some seem to think it is. He just might never be able to find any others at any price. So a bin in the hand is worth way more than any unseen or heard of bin in the future. And a good used bin should last him the rest of his life, same as a new one should do.

Well, you and I think the same in a lot of ways. Thanks for the input. I've been sitting here tonight reading this with my wife trying to get my mind around what I want to do. I am tired of fixing everything I buy. I have had the best luck buying meticulously maintained but higher priced items. Best example I can think of is Tom O'Connor's truck. I argued with him about his price. People here told me it was too much. I couldn't find an alternative and was in desperate need. Truck paid for itself in one summer of hauling material and grain. I need to keep that in mind. Thanks again!

Thanks Chris! I looked into moving a shed with helicopter last year. The fella told me he could do it, but when he started coming down and was "braking" with the main rotor it would blow all the shingles off the house. I thanked him and moved on. I don't think i can move an 18' bin down the road on it's side. This place required a short freeway drive and, well, BTDT with my swather and the permits and such are problematic. I can number these and take them apart fairly easily I think.

I've heard Lindsey were flimsy bins as well.

Paul

Value is hard to determine cause everyone's situation is a bit different. I would say they look to be nice and equipped well for what little I understand of your operation. How much would it have been worth to you to have been done a month earlier this year and missed the snow? The biggest factor for me would be distance that these have to be moved and if I had to completely disassemble. If they were next door and exactly what I was looking for I may consider 5k but that would mean little disassembly.

And how much more would new cost if he let these go and go to scrap because everybody thinks they are to high and he can find other NON existing bins far cheaper. I do know that if I was looking for used bins I could not find any of any size in a usuable condition. In areas of the country they may be avaible but not here. And I would like to know where they are avaible.

Either way, they are small fans...just for aeration, with a long run time. Certainly not for drying. Typical drying fan is 7 1/2 hp or more, with the burner ring and controls.