Interesting

notjustair · Nov 17, 2016

I find old technology interesting. Of course, most everything I farm with is from the 40's to the 90's so there's quite a technology curve there. Some things have electronic ignition and some have a crank in case you need it.

I pulled the engine on the 1935 Chevy grain truck today to clean up the pan and check bearings and all other goodies. The 207 in that truck is an engineering marvel. It's got a vane oil pump but uses cups on the rods to help pressurize tubes in the pan. That pressurized oil is then added to the oil from the pump to go to the top end. The rod bearings are oiled through these scoops so it only needs oil for three main bearings and the valve train. It's just such a conglomeration of Rube Goldberg devices to get enough oil. It runs about 15 pounds of pressure hot.

I about died the first time I peeked in the pan. It looked like a nest of dead snakes.

Dieseltech · Nov 17, 2016

Some Oliver Waukesha engines don't even have that much to help lube the rods, just splash from whatever leaks past the mains at 10-15 PSI..

Denny K · Nov 17, 2016

If you remove a rod cap make sure the dipper goes back on the same way. My dad turned one around and guess what, had to polish the crank journal and get a new rod on a 46 chevy p/u. I guess you can pull the rod down until the wrist pin is below the block, loosen the clamp bolt on the rod, push the wrist pin out a ways, remove rod and reassemble with new rod.

Steve@Advance · Nov 17, 2016

I'm not sure what their reasoning was for the dipper rods. Maybe the technology for cross drilling the crank was lacking.

Thinking there are shims under the rod caps, if the bearing gets worn, you remove a shim to tighten it up.

That engine is really clean! Think it has been apart before?

notjustair · Nov 17, 2016

It was grandpas and then my uncle had it. I've never heard family lore of it being rebuilt but there were signs that wrenches had been on the main bearing caps. I find that hard to believe as grandpa was too tight to even buy a new battery - he got all of his at the junk yard. My uncle fixed everything with a pliers and a 16 penny nail.

Its saving grace was probably my uncle, ironically. He fed cows with it until '87 or so and it ran every day for a good while until it was heated up so it escaped any sludge. The valve cover was even more clean. The oil screen on the vane pump plugged up at some point then and he doubled the amount of oil in the crankcase because it hit the pump bypass and it was able to pump full pressure past the dirty pickup screen. Everything in there was submerged for years. Thus the reason for the removal. I want the pump to function like it's supposed to. She's back on the road at the farm (once the pan is on again) hauling bales and water to cattle. Earn your keep no matter how old you are!

travis miranowski · Nov 18, 2016

I think you are overthinking a simple system a little. It looks to me like just a simple splash lube system with shim able Babbitt bearings. The oil pump delivers oil to the troughs in the oil pan and top end. The oil dippers on the rod caps force oil into the rod bearings. Most systems I have delt with like this have an orifice or orifices in the system to maintain 5-10 pounds pressure

FBH44 · Nov 18, 2016

Now wait just a minute!!! I don't buy those expensive Chinee cotter pins at Lowe's either... I use a good old 16 penny nail all the time. I also found in my Farmall the old IHC mechanic used No. 6 copper ground wire for cotter pins too.

sms · Nov 18, 2016

My 38 GMC has a correct flathead 230 Oldsmobile engine. GM used it because it was a fully pressurized engine until they developed a pressurized OHV six for 1939. Chevrolet used those splashers until 1953 IIRC. I seem to remember if they were on a steep hill they could starve for oil, don't remember which way.

Texasmark1 · Nov 18, 2016

Since we seemingly have some knowledgeable folks here in this post I have a question for you:

GM Babbit bearings have had a bad rap in my circles for as long as I can remember, even back to my teenage years. Looking up Babbit material (tin and copper basically) on Wiki. It apparently IS the material for rod to crank interface connections, even in today's engines.

As I understand it, the whole GM rod was made from Babbit back then whereas Ford used Babbit inserts so that you had a hard rod but could replace the soft wearing surface.

I did pickup on here about the comment about removing the shims as necessary to compensate for wear. Was that GM's method of compensating for wear rather than replacing an insert.

If so, what's the big deal? Ford buffs spreading rumors to get the edge over their competition???????

I had an acquaintance that said his dad used a piece of leather from one of his old shoes to repair an old GM engine..........

Just curious, as probably others are too.

rustyfarmall · Nov 18, 2016

(quoted from post at 06:14:40 11/18/16) Since we seemingly have some knowledgeable folks here in this post I have a question for you:

GM Babbit bearings have had a bad rap in my circles for as long as I can remember, even back to my teenage years. Looking up Babbit material (tin and copper basically) on Wiki. It apparently IS the material for rod to crank interface connections, even in today's engines.

As I understand it, the whole GM rod was made from Babbit back then whereas Ford used Babbit inserts so that you had a hard rod but could replace the soft wearing surface.

I did pickup on here about the comment about removing the shims as necessary to compensate for wear. Was that GM's method of compensating for wear rather than replacing an insert.

If so, what's the big deal? Ford buffs spreading rumors to get the edge over their competition???????

I had an acquaintance that said his dad used a piece of leather from one of his old shoes to repair an old GM engine..........

Just curious, as probably others are too.

The insert type of bearings can be shimmed with newspaper. However many layers you need to achieve the proper clearance. I've seen it done, and many years later when the engine is torn down again, the newsprint is still legible. You can read it.

ss55 · Nov 18, 2016

It was probably done for cost savings.

Janicholson · Nov 18, 2016

Rods have always been steel, The poured babbitt bearings had the soft material melted and poured into the rod in a fixture then trimmed up and sized to fit the journal on the crank. All other plane bearing designs used inserts with sovt material plated in layers on a steel shell "inserted" into the rod big end. The babbitt material is mutch too soft to use as a connecting rod (or mush else) Jim

Bob · Nov 18, 2016

"It's got a vane oil pump but uses cups on the rods to help pressurize tubes in the pan. That pressurized oil is then added to the oil from the pump to go to the top end."

You are WAY overthinking that... the individual splash troughs are simply kept running over full by the oil feed tubes.

Older engines that simply depended upon splash lube without the tubes and troughs could lose bearings going up or down hill because the rod(s) at the high end wouldn't have oil to dip into.

Ford Model "T's" would be one example.

Knowledgeable drivers would BACK up a steep hill because they would oil all the rods better, as the oil wouldn't move back from the pan to the flywheel housing/transmission/wet clutch area, leaving the front rods high and dry.

mite-help · Nov 18, 2016

when I was a crazy kid, I had a 1949 chev 'babbit beater' hopped up to the max with dual carb 'offy' manifold, 'fenton headers';, cam & racing pistons, etc. I was a real winner most times @ our sat. night outlaw 1/4 mile, but had the pan off most Sun. afternoons.

37chief · Nov 18, 2016

One thing about the poured rod bearing is only one journal can be reground if needed, and cut the rod bearing to fit the crank journal. There was a machine shop in my area that had a grinding arrangement that could grind one journal if needed, while still in the car. I never paid much attention to how it worked, but it did. Stan

pete 23 · Nov 18, 2016

The old 216 & 235 chev dipper engines ran at 14 psi oil pressure. There was a nozzle in the pan that sprayed into the dipper & GM had a tool for aligning those nozzles so the oil actually sprayed in the right direction. Imagine the actual oil pressure into the rod when that engine is wound up with the dipper catching that spray of oil. I laid under more than a few. It was a doggone old 41 chev that got me into the wrenching business. I bought it and six days later it broke the crankshaft and block. When I looked it over , before buying, the rear main was leaking pretty bad. The dealer pulled pan and replaced seal, or part of it at least. He must have tightened that rear main putting a strain on crank to cause it to break shortly. Never know. But, anyway, I put a 48' 235 engine in it. Next year, drove it 1300 miles to Atlanta while in Army to attend engine rebuild school, sold it for 40 bucks, end of story.

Chev used babbited rods until going to replaceable inserts in the 53 power glide and all engines next year.

RWT · Nov 18, 2016

Those old Olivers have a special passage fed from slots in the crank that squirt oil at the rods when they line up. The center mains on 6's have 3 slots so that each pair of rods are in the correct place to get oil. Rear slot feeds the rockers. Front slot oils the timing gears and other stuff.

RT (My 2?)

Texasmark1 · Nov 19, 2016

Well being too soft for the rod proper was what I was thinking but didn't know how the Babbit material was involved. Thanks for that info.

Interesting

notjustair

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Dieseltech

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Denny K

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Steve@Advance

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notjustair

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travis miranowski

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FBH44

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sms

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Texasmark1

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rustyfarmall

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ss55

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Janicholson

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Bob

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mite-help

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37chief

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pete 23

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RWT

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Texasmark1

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