Case 580CK Advise

I have a case 580ck that developed a knock that came on quick. I cut the machine and started to dissect it before i made it worse. After battling the crap out of the stearing frame to get it out of the way, i finally one the battle and dropped the pan. The head came off super easy, but the stuck bolts on the a frame under the pan were not fun to get out. Each bolt took forever. I one the battle and the pan is off. i can see the damage but am not sure what to do about it. The number three connecting rod is loose and has a ton of play at the crank. I can move it around and believe that is the source of the issue. However i cant tell if the connecting rod is worn or the crank is worn. Everything looks smooth and not scored but it is lose as can be. I guess that explains why it ran fine with no smoke or anything, just developed a knock super quick. Head is fine, pistons and sleeves are unscored. It is a 188d. I have hawked this forum for years but never posted anything. I am just seeking some advise from somoene out there that has more knowledge of these case 188's than me. Any advise would be appreciated. My inclintion is to replace the connecting rod with a new one and see. Seams that would be the easiest thing to do, as i have not split the tractor, because i was unsure of the issue. If i have to pull the crank does the motor have to be seperated to get it out? Advise from the infinate wisdom of this list would be appreciated.
Adrian

you need to have the crank and rod journals measured,, I am betting you will at the very least have the crank turned, also sounds like at least one rod replaced as well,, you may even have to have the block line bored,, depending if you have other wear issues you have not found yet,, but that's just a guess
cnt

I had a Case forklift in years ago that started making noise suddenly, found one rod pin bushing laying in the pan in pieces. Ran great after an overhaul, owner thought it was just a bad injector. It's a good engine, but it could use a better system at the head/water pump area..

Remove the pistons and rods from the block and measure the crankshaft. See if your crankshaft is worn. IF your sleeves have little to zero ridge and the pistons measure with-in spec. You can just hone and install new piston rings. You do not have to replace the sleeves and pistons to have a good running engine. You can roll new main bearing in without removing the crankshaft from the engine. So if the crankshaft is fine and you do not have front or rear seals leaking you do not have to remove the crankshaft.

Now for what may be your troubles. Where the connecting rod bolts tight??? If they come lose they will cause a knock real fast. I would take the connecting rod that is lose and measure it. If you do not know what it is supposed to be than just measure one of the "tight" connecting rods. There has to be wear on the crankshaft, the rod bearing or in the connecting rod itself for it to be lose. So find out what is wrong and then replace the worn parts.

Your advise is awesome. The strange thing is that there are no metal fragments at all in the pan, nothing on the magnet either. The piston and sleeve look absolutely normal. I am going to put my gauge on the journal in the morning. Does anyone know what it should be. Also the two nuts holding the rod were tight, but came off way to easy. I suspect they vibrated and knocked around in there which made them easier to remove. When i put it back together it tightens up and the clamp at the bottom of the connecting rod is tight, something is just way worn out either the connecting rod or the journal itself. I have a manual but it is just a parts blow up and doesn't tell you anything about what the measurement of the journal or the rod should be. I suspect if i put the caliper thingy on it i will get the current od of the journal and the id of the connecting rod end, but have no idea what it should be. If anyone knows that would be helpful. If not i will pull a tight one apart for comparison and see. This machine is only used for light duty residential farm work. It does not make me money, in fact I turn down my neighbors quite frequently, because i don't want any liability with utilities and what not. You never know what is in the ground around here, even after an 811 call. That is my experience. So i am not looking for perfection with this and want to take apart as little as possible. This machine has absolutely done wonders for me and Bessy(her name) has run amazingly for me. She did 50 thousand dollars worth of infrastructure repair due to the floods we had in colorado a few years ago and saved my house in the process. I would like to treat her right. If anyone can tell me what the journals should measure out to and the id of the connecting rod end i would appreciate it. Also this forum has been absolutely the best tool i could ever find. Between your wisdom and then being able to actually see these things on youtube, i have been ale to fix the impossible. I have split it before and replaced the springs in the forward and reverse clutch packs in the shuttle and man was that a bear. But the wisdom here guided me to the real culprit and a source for the springs themselves. Thank You All.

The odds of the crank being in tolerance are extremely small. That the rod hammered around enough to cause the bolts to loose their torque means the rod has been damaged and will need to be reconditioned or replaced. There could also be other problems. A main could have spun and shut off the oil to that rod. Though you didn't see any metal, trust me, it's in there! If you put it back together, even with a reconditioned crank, it will find it's way into everywhere it shouldn't!

Diesels are very unforgiving of short cuts. They will suck your money, blow up, and then take more!

Really you have 3 choices.

Pull the engine, tear it apart, clean and inspect everything. Get a shop manual, check the wear limits (with micrometers and dial bore gauges). Take the crank, rods, head, anything else out of tolerance, to a reputable machine shop and have everything brought back to specs... Then double check their work, assume nothing! Reassemble it, keeping everything meticulously clean, reinstall and pray for the best.

Or pull the engine out, reassemble what was taken apart, take the engine to a reputable rebuilder and have it gone through.

Or try to find a rebuilt or used engine. Both prospects are very risky.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but this is not something you can gamble with and come out a winner. If it is out of tolerance, it will quickly fail, just the nature of a diesel.

I will try to take time and scan what you need from the SM it may be later today or tonight before I get time,, I cannot understand why I am even more busy right now than during harvest ect,, I just have too many things I have put off to get done I guess
cnt

If you do not have the tools and the expertise to do precision engine repair, this job would better be left to the professionals. Diesels are not forgiving in the bearing and crankshaft end of things due to the high compression and high pressures generated. Much more so than a gas engine. Here is one place where "farmer fixes" will quickly fail.

Given that the rod was loose on the crank, it is very unlikely that the crankshaft is undamaged. Also unlikely that the rod Is not damaged. Next question is WHY did this happen? Did the rod starve for oil? Is an oil passage blocked? Did the engine have good oil pressure when it started knocking? In my many years of experience, I have found that when a diesel starts knocking, it is going to take a bottom end overhaul to make it reliable again.

I have 580ck that had a stuck valve. I had the head off I found that it had a bad wrist pin bushing. Check the bushings for a lot of play. This to will cause knocking. Again check the crank diameter. if the bearing didn't spin in the rod. you can get over sized bearing. You can order you parts direct form case on line. They have good detailed views on the site