Whats the problem now a days with most all the harvesters leaving so much grain in the field? Is every one in too big a hurry to get done? Or are the newer combines that hard to set correctly to do a good job? I see all the time what looks like more corn coming up volunteer after harvest than what was planted originally. Look like 10 to 20 bushel to the acre thrown over.. 40 years ago Dad would make us check after the first round to see how much was on the ground. If we found more than a few directly behind the combine we would stop and reset the thresher. Ive seen wheat fields look like bluegrass lawns after the first rain.
- Thread starter flying H
- Start date
I see that a lot here too including some of our own after they set a month. I think the combines are being pushed a bit too hard either because wet weathers on the way or there's a panic on. We have a 550 MF with a 13' head and even though it looks great for about a month usually by 6 weeks you can tell everywhere I drove.
Well your Father's combine would lose 2-3% when set perfectly. So on a 40 bushel yield in wheat that would be around one bushel lost. Toady's combines lose about the same when set correctly. The difference is the yield. 70-80 bushel wheat yield that makes the loss around 2 bushels per acre. That is enough you will see it in the right weather. Meaning rains and warm to sprout everything.
In corn it is even more dramatic because the average yield has doubled in the last 30 years. So 120 bushel corn yield would be 3-4 bushels per acre. 250 bushel yield would be 7-8 bushels per acre. Yes that is much more than the 1/2 bushel planted. Also we are harvesting abut a month earlier than we used to. Corn shelled on Nov. would not have much volunteer regrowth because of it being too cold to grow. Corn harvested in Sept. can easily have warmth enough to sprout.
In corn it is even more dramatic because the average yield has doubled in the last 30 years. So 120 bushel corn yield would be 3-4 bushels per acre. 250 bushel yield would be 7-8 bushels per acre. Yes that is much more than the 1/2 bushel planted. Also we are harvesting abut a month earlier than we used to. Corn shelled on Nov. would not have much volunteer regrowth because of it being too cold to grow. Corn harvested in Sept. can easily have warmth enough to sprout.
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
my combines Do Not leave 2-3% in the field and Never have, if I left that much in my fields they would look like I planted them again in the spring, now a custom cutter my Dad used Always left at least that much in the field and also cracked Wheat so bad he had a lot of dockage,, that custom cutter wanted acres and never gave a darn about Dads losses,, the year I took over running the farm the custom cutter was in a real hurry, he sped up the cylinder when I left the field due to a issue I had at home for the afternoon he finished,, there was grain Every where, he ran over it he cracked it and threw it on the ground,, cost me one dollar a bushel in dockage,, you have to keep in mind wheat here that year brought $ 1 .92 a bushel I had 32,000 bushels that year so you can do the math what it cost me plus paying the cutter over 8000.00 to do the job,, that was the last time he ever was on the farm, I bought a couple more Case combines that fall and have cut my own since,, dockage has never exceeded 1% with my machines since,, I understand the machines of today sacrifice quality and some grain savings for quantity,, jut the way it is, I also hold the cleanest and lest dockage sample here at the elevator, I have since 1999, I understand you guys in the Corn belt need huge capacity and need the big units of today, glad I do not have to for my small grains and grass and alfalfa seed I do custom here, and by the way if I had let 2-3% go on the ground my Dad would have kicked my butt but good, he taught me if you get it in the header you keep it in the bin as well, a bushel a acre on 2000 acres of Wheat like I used to grow was a unacceptable loss to me and still is to me
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Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Just remeber that every piece of "light grain" that blows out the back of the combine , will sprout .
Over the last 20 years I have helped quite a number of guys harvest with about every color and make of combine. In corn, I am here to tell you, I can set an old Massey up to where if you can find a single kernel in a yard hoop I would have been REALLY disappointed! That being said, the biggest head I ran was a 6 row wide. My monitor was my eyes, and ears. I had clean grain, and little to nothing left in the field.
These new guys never get out, and if I comment on how much grain there is on the ground, or how much trash is in the grain, they just shrug their shoulders.
These new guys never get out, and if I comment on how much grain there is on the ground, or how much trash is in the grain, they just shrug their shoulders.
notjustair
Well-known Member
Our super 92 Massey gave a clean wonderful sample. I wish my 9500 Deere gave that kind of sample.
Adjusting that combine was something that took a good bit each year, but it was worth it. After harvest we would drive around and look at the custom cutter fields and the green swaths that were growing behind them. I always pushed for a new combine but the proof was in the pudding. Ours was working just fine. I'd give my right arm to have a super 92 to put a few acres through.
Adjusting that combine was something that took a good bit each year, but it was worth it. After harvest we would drive around and look at the custom cutter fields and the green swaths that were growing behind them. I always pushed for a new combine but the proof was in the pudding. Ours was working just fine. I'd give my right arm to have a super 92 to put a few acres through.
10 to 20 bushels per acre loss would look like a carpet of seed on the ground. 4 beans per square foot represents a 1 bushel per acre loss in soybeans, and that level is what a pretty darn good operator and machine can achieve. 20 bushel per acre loss would be 80 beans per square foot, or40 corn seeds per share foot. You would have to be completely asleep to get that sort of loss, and you would never get any repeat business nor any profit on your own. Get out and count the seeds per square foot across the whole width of the cut to know for sure your losses. Ben
I often wondered about that myself. When the BTO by me gets done with wheat harvest a few weeks later you can see green strips in the field where the rear of the combine kicks out the straw. I always thought todays machine would get close to 100% of the crop.
Case Nutty 1660: How many acres do you run through your Case combine each year????? The average combine around here runs between 1500 and 2500 acre a year. Ours ran over 3300 each last year and are set to run more this year.
When your running a 12 row corn head or a forty foot cutting platform there is massive amount of material running through the machines. They do an amazing job if you think about the volume they are sorting and handling in a short amount of time.
YES they are harder to fine tune. Knowing how to fine tune an older machine is many times a handicap on setting the newer machines. They use much more air flow and clean with it over materially sizing with just the chaffer/sieve. One of the biggest issues I has helping fellow adjust the 9000 series combines when they came out was the guys did not run them full. Many times actually speeding UP helped much more than slowing down.
Often the material your seeing on the ground, in small grains like wheat/oats, are actually blank or non mature kernels that are lighter so they are getting blown out the back.
Now how many fellows take the time to really super tune a modern combine??? Maybe half. Many just get them "good enough".
When your running a 12 row corn head or a forty foot cutting platform there is massive amount of material running through the machines. They do an amazing job if you think about the volume they are sorting and handling in a short amount of time.
YES they are harder to fine tune. Knowing how to fine tune an older machine is many times a handicap on setting the newer machines. They use much more air flow and clean with it over materially sizing with just the chaffer/sieve. One of the biggest issues I has helping fellow adjust the 9000 series combines when they came out was the guys did not run them full. Many times actually speeding UP helped much more than slowing down.
Often the material your seeing on the ground, in small grains like wheat/oats, are actually blank or non mature kernels that are lighter so they are getting blown out the back.
Now how many fellows take the time to really super tune a modern combine??? Maybe half. Many just get them "good enough".
BTO's hire anybody that they can get, especially in low population areas, to drive a combine - and that's exactly what they do, just drive the combine. They've been seen pulling into a field of wheat after finishing barley. Nobody got out of a machine and checked behind it or changed any settings. Back in the day, that would have been a disgrace that the neighbors talked about for months afterwards. Now nobody cares. With the debt load of most BTO's, a few bushel thrown back onto the ground isn't going to make much difference in paying off their debt.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
The new combines are just as capable of capturing the grain as the old ones. However, I think the new ones are harder to get set 'just right'. The reason is more material is being crammed through a smaller space, so to speak so the margin of error is smaller. Combine manufacturers are against the wall size-wise meaning the combine cannot get much bigger physically because of road transportation issues. Horsepower is increased, drives are heavier, the header is wider to bring in more material per pass but the actual size of the threshing chamber is not proportionally bigger. Then too the separator loss out the back is more concentrated because the loss from a 40 foot swath is being concentrated in a narrow swath behind the machine.
Now, add to this a hired seat warmer who doesn't know what to watch for and could care less about grain loss and you end up with more than acceptable grain loss. Many owner operators themselves don't know how to set a combine properly. A good example is the operator can't get the beans to feed in right so he speeds up the reel to try to throw it in, causing more reel shatter when he really should keep the reel slow and move it down and forward. That enough! LOL
Now, add to this a hired seat warmer who doesn't know what to watch for and could care less about grain loss and you end up with more than acceptable grain loss. Many owner operators themselves don't know how to set a combine properly. A good example is the operator can't get the beans to feed in right so he speeds up the reel to try to throw it in, causing more reel shatter when he really should keep the reel slow and move it down and forward. That enough! LOL
Seems like alot of bragging and poor memories in this thread. I been doing harvest for more yrs then i wanna admit. between head loss on corn and bean pods popping open and getting the fan set to blow out light, poor quality wheat berries; these combines do a whale of a job! If the old conventional combines did such a good job, why don't anyone make them anymore. My neighbor use to tell me how great of a job his old 'C' gleaner did. I figured out that some of the guys combines on my place. did more in one yr, then that gleaner did in it's lifetime. hauling grain to town in the old untarped farm trucks, lost more grain along the road then the old or new combines every did.
I work on a lot of combines...mostly JD...but some 'Silver-Seeder' and Binders(red-rotor-red-rotor...ain't got a motor)
As a farm mechanic I can tell you that all operators are not created equal. Some have read the operating manual and comprehended the supplied destructions. These guys service and actually operate the machine as intended!....will see these combine operators at times on hands and knees behind a stopped combine...digging around and gauging just how efficiently its all working. This person most likely also has a complete operator's manual...a grease-gun..and a fire extinguisher in/on the combine
The next combine driver you see is just that...a driver. He may grease and fuel the combine....but he's hoping/assuming everything is set and 'ready to go'...he's getting crop out of the field for sure.
Most combines of any make or model will do a good job if it's decently maintained and properly operating. Some grain loss is inevitable as no combine is 100% efficient.
Every field is different too....the machine may work superb in one particular field....but not so hot across the road or in a different variety of same crop...cutting any crop efficiently that's all weeds or flat on the ground or whatever can be a fiasco!
Bill in IL
Well-known Member
I am not sure what the problem is either. Its most likely lack of pride, laziness or just can't figure out how to set the machine correctly. Just spend a little time are the elevator and watch the guys dumping grain you can tell rather quickly who knows how to set their machines.
Now with that said a combine will loose some grain in the field and always will due to many factors out of the operators control. But if you see a new full stand of corn sprouting in October there is something wrong.
Now with that said a combine will loose some grain in the field and always will due to many factors out of the operators control. But if you see a new full stand of corn sprouting in October there is something wrong.
We went through the same thing with a custom cutter out of Kansas with a Gleaner N7. He did an awful job and told him to go pound sand. These newer combines do not sacrifice quality and grain over the old ones. The newer operator does. I just look up one of my wheat grades from last year and most of it has .1 to .2% dockage. We shoot for .5% or less. On the loss we shoot for half a bushel or less. Lot of times we get it down to a tenth of a bushel. This is in 30-60 bpa wheat with two new JD combines. My old combines don't do any better then that.
big tee
Well-known Member
There is a big difference between a combine driver and a combine operator. On the home place our son had an Asgrow number that got sudden death syndrome-"a bean disease that makes the plant to die way early and it causes the plant to abort their pods. It was sad to see all the pods on the ground. If we get a rain and some warm weather the field will look like a green carpet. If you have some green pods when the rest of them are ripe you will find NOTHING threshes them out better than a combine straw chopper!--Tee
Wheatfarmer
Member
All of our older IHC combines, and the John Deere 55, and 95' had to change the concaves setting with a different variety of wheat. The old IHC took some time. The JD 55 and 95's had a lever. Dad would check the ground, and did so behind a Custom cutter. Also check the bin for cracked wheat.
chuck from neb
Member
I have never lost 2 to 3 percent out the back of a combine in fact corn or soybean loss is almost zero ....a kernel will bounce out here and there less then a quarter bushel an acre. Now I'm talking about from a 6600 or cash ih to a jd s690 which we run now
Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
I used to run 1500-2000 acres through mine for years no problem, I have ran 100 bushel plus Wheat through mine with a 20' header and still saved the grain,, I have been doing this since 1967 I am not new to running and setting combines
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Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
That sounds much better to me Thanks,, I agree on your dockage
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Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
For a few years starting in 75 we have two 760 MF cut for us they did a very good job as well dockage was acceptable as well they ran 24' headers,,
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Case Nutty 1660
Well-known Member
the same guy who burned me had a 8820 before that,, that machine still would crack Wheat pretty bad at times but again it was not all the machines fault at all,, but it seemed to save more grain than the 9600's he replaced them with but again I would bet it was not a machine issue as much as operator,, I ran one of his 9600's for a few weeks one year,, I changed a few settings and it seemed much better than when he ran it
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We've had three 8820s over the years with one still on the farm. Seems like on those you can set the machine once at start of harvest and never touch them again and still will do a great job. The 9600 we had afterwards it seemed like we were always having to fine tune it. Then we had a CTS II which was a real cleaning SOB. So much so that our local CIH rep commented a few times how good a job it was doing. Since then we've had JD rotaries and they do a good job like I've already posted but you have to fine tune them a lot. Whoever said you have to fine tune these newer combines verse the older ones I kinda agree. I've never touched the settings on my old combines and they all do a good job. They would probably do even better if I had new cylinder bars/concave for them all.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
With the BS vomitoxin crap there is the idea to blow out some of the lighter kernels to help cut the dock down. I have actually set our 7720 to do just that for that reason. Otherwise it will do a fine job. I can't get out and check with it running like I used to 20-30 years ago. I try to have somebody to either drive or check for me. I do know on corn I can make the cobs come out round in the trash. If they are not round things are not set right. It will take a bit. For beans I set the cylinder near 600 then adjust concaves to get close then finish with cylinder speed. For the sieve if I hear the tailings elevator making noise the bottom sieve needs to open just a bit. To much is going over the bottom sieve. If I find beans on the rear axle then I need to slowdown. It is hard to check with a chopper on the back. Anything going through with the walkers will not show up if you don't look on the walkers themselves.
I Know when the 9000 series first came out I was on a couple of different harvest crews. In the morning we would speed the cylinder up a bit for the slight toughness then back them down after a bit when it got drier. then if there were white caps (hulls) in the bin then we would speed up the cylinder again some. Usually had the concaves about shut for wheat. Then adjust cylinder speed. For corn I had an old harvester tell me on a massey set the cylinder at 400 for corn then adjust the concaves to finish up setting.
I Know when the 9000 series first came out I was on a couple of different harvest crews. In the morning we would speed the cylinder up a bit for the slight toughness then back them down after a bit when it got drier. then if there were white caps (hulls) in the bin then we would speed up the cylinder again some. Usually had the concaves about shut for wheat. Then adjust cylinder speed. For corn I had an old harvester tell me on a massey set the cylinder at 400 for corn then adjust the concaves to finish up setting.
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