Soil Tilage, Need Options

Bryce Frazier · Oct 12, 2016

Looking for a different approach or different options on soil tillage for my small farm. I am now farming 4 fields, totaling a little over 20 acres. I have borrowed a 3x16 JD Trailed plow from a buddy, and am doing fall plowing with my Super M, but I just have WAY too many rocks! Some parts of the fields plow pretty well, but as soon as I get on the side hills and such, the plow won't even stay in the ground at times. I have them from tennisball size to Volkswagen sized!!

So, plowing doesn't strike me as being the best option, just because of the huge risk of breaking a plow. What about chisel plowing / ripping? It is going to be in stubble each year, so, not heavy sod? What other options do I have? Thanks!! Bryce

Janicholson · Oct 12, 2016

Without the Chemistry of herbicides (from prior posts it seems you would like to avoid them) no till seams unlikely. Field cultivators work well but also are affected by rocks. My history in rocky northern Indiana makes me sensitive to the issue. It may be why those fields are now available to you. Cultivators are going to lift rocks and in some cases be damaged by them. Picking rocks is reality. Montana (but across the mountains) uses dryland techniques leaving 50% of the land fallow. With 20 acres, not a reasonable choice. Jim

Bryce Frazier · Oct 12, 2016

Ya, for the most part I would like to stay away from herbacides, mostly because I don't have any of the equipment to do so, but I would like to try to remain Organic, with being "Organic". Just for my own happiness!

Well see that's what I thought, chisels will pull them to the top as well..... I was kind of thinking if I could hit it with a chisel plow once, and then disc heavy each year, that might keep the rocks at bay. I have no problem picking rocks, that is just the way things go around here! Most cultivators / chisels have break aways on the shanks though don't they? So hopefully breaking something from a rock would be less of a chance?

paul · Oct 12, 2016

Chisel plows are going to roll a lot of rock to the surface. A lot.. Get one with a good spring action, when they hook a big rock something has to give.

Chisel plow does a better job if it has a curved twist shovel on it, and if you go 2 inches deeper than you plowed to break up the plow companion layer, and if you drive a little faster it shatters the diary better. All of which to say, the more hp per shank the better, I got a 7 shank Soil Saver behind a 150hp tractor in my heavy soil, some years it is a little small, but dry years when it does the best job it can pull the engine down in hard clay doing its job.

I had - still have - a lighter old 2 inch point chisel p.ow, but when the ground was hard it kinda danced over the ground and you could still see the rows, really didn't do that much, wondered why I bothered. Could pull 10 shank shallow with 85hp, but like I say it didn't really seem to do anything for my dirt.

All to say, an M might be a little light to accomplish much chisel plowing.

We bought 55 acres this spring where the previous owner grew corn on corn, didn't pick many rock ever. Boy howdy did the wife and I get a workout, we didn't get all 55 acres but I covered the 35 acres with a couple Polaris Ranger loads full (hitch was actually dragging on the ground, I should made more small loads...) and wife got through 10 of the 20 acre field with 4 Ranger loads and a loader bucket plumb full of bigger ones, bless her. I think I got 2 more Ranger loads after I planted. Still didn't do much to the other half of that field and we need to do better on the 35 acres next spring. But we got the bigger than football size ones at least.

You will find rock you didn't know you had the first time through......

Paul

jon f mn · Oct 12, 2016

Chizeling and ripping will pull rocks up and are not good solutions for sod. Molboard, offset disc or disc plows are your best bets for rocky soil. A finnish disc and packer rather than cultivator for finnish work as well. If your trip mechanism is w9rking on your plow the chances of damaging it are slim.

Ken Macfarlane · Oct 12, 2016

I'm in the same spot, working rocky ground.

If you don't use herbicides its very hard to tackle weeds without moldboard ploughing because all other tillage leaves weeds on top. People talk about cultivating, harrows etc but they must live in drier areas because here if you don't bury it or remove it or kill it with herbicide it stays growing here.

Moldboard and rocks don't get along. I just plowed a bunch with a spring trip auto reset plow and broke shares and points, and job was terrible as it kept getting knocked out of the ground. While discing, I've picked almost 100 bucket loads of rock off the 10 acres and hauled dozens of the big monsters away on forks. Its down to maybe 20 buckets left.

I put the c-tine drag harrow on with the teeth set 1" below the skids to level with, promptly brought up hundreds more basketball size rocks and kept plugging the harrow with them.

I'll have another 20 hours rock picking left to finish the field at least. Also holed a newish Firestone 14.9x24 front tire on a pointy rock.

There is a little area near the bottom that I didn't plow but it got sprayed off, after 2 or 3 disc passes it looked closer to ready for planting than the rest that was plowed so that is what I'm doing next year.

rrlund · Oct 12, 2016

You don't have the power to do much good with a chisel plow. Get a good pair of gloves and a decent log chain. I can see a lot of stone picking in your future.

rustred · Oct 12, 2016

chisel plow with twisted shovels, then u need to pick rocks, then disc. that will do a nice job the M will struggle with 10 ft. chizel plow ... it will be 1st gear slow going.

jon f mn · Oct 12, 2016

Another problem with chizel and ripper is finding one small enough. 3 maybe 4 shanks for chizel which means you can't cover the wheel tracks. 1 shank, for a ripper if you put it in the ground, 2 if you go shallow.

sandel · Oct 12, 2016

Perhaps real question is why anyone would want to crop this kind dirt. Some dirt is best suited for hay, pasture or just holding the world together.

coonie minnie · Oct 12, 2016

Steep, rocky soils are what no till was made for... it is how nature held the soil in place prior to man coming along with tillage. yes, you will need to use herbicides, but my experience has been that soil health increases with no-till, herbicide included. Eliminating tillage is much more important to foster healthy soil (more worms, more microflora, increased soil OM) than the addition of herbicide.

hd6gtom · Oct 12, 2016

Brice I hate to tell you--Rocks are never at bay, you gotta remove them. Have you got a neighbor with a rock picker? As a kid we picked them up for hours. Mom sold the north farm 5 years ago, still has rocks coming to the surface, even after 60 years of picken them up. My kids helped dad pick for several years. Seems like frost brings them up. Good luck.

DeltaRed · Oct 12, 2016

Some of the mountainous ereas here have the same type of rocks you describe. The guys who farm in those areas use disk plows. They do a decent job of covering and bounce over the rocks. Then a roller harrow/pulvimulcher is use to mash clods and make seed bed.The disk plow would be your best bet to plow sod

fixerupper · Oct 12, 2016

Row crop the lower ground and hay the rocky hillsides. You will never get ahead of the rocks in a rocky area like that. My farm is only moderately rocky at the worst. For the past 20 years I have been dumping the rocks I have picked up on a cement feed floor hoping someone someday would need some rocks to landscape with. That person who wanted rocks showed up a year ago. He took four tandem dump truck loads and four semi loads and there is still a semi load there for whoever wants them. This came off of 700 acres over a 20 year period. Next spring after field work is done I will probably be picking up as many rocks as I did 20 years ago. I joke that a rock is the only creature that propagates at 100 percent efficiency in the wintertime.

David G · Oct 12, 2016

Go no till, change planter and get rid of tillage equipment

Ronnie Budd · Oct 12, 2016

I agree with what others have said. If you don't want to go no-till, then swap that moldboard plow for a disc plow. Chiseling is going to produce more rocks than crops, and a Farmall M isn't really big enough to pull a big enough chisel anyway, unless you are going to pull it shallow. Disc plow is your option.

Ronnie

wilson ind · Oct 12, 2016

Not to disagree with you. Yes disc plow is much better in rock infested soil. I have an old Killeffer disc, 20 inch blades as opposed to my 3 bottom disc plow with 36 inch blades. Possibly a Killiffer would work in his soil. Maybe no till is also a good option. However experience has taught me that no till planters must be really good as there is no half way on no till. Only the best will give a good stand. Maybe rolling the rocks in with heavy roller and going to hay where planting is not required each year. Hay crops can be rolled yearly to press in rocks without killing the crop.

GordoSD · Oct 12, 2016

What do you mean "farming" four fields. Planting a crop each year and harvesting that? Hayledge, earledge, wheat, alfalfa?
I dont' see much profit in your acreage that will maintain your equipment and pay fuel and parts bills. Seed, fertilizer and harvest coats. Alfalfa/Timnothy, if you can get at least 3T per acre will pencil out best.

Bryce Frazier · Oct 12, 2016

I grow non-gmo Barley for a local Distillery that is making Vodka out of it. I made a little bit of profit this year, but not enough to make it a job. I do it more for fun. More so than that, I am proud to say that I am a an American Farmer! I may be a small one, but I AM a farmer!

Donald Lehman · Oct 12, 2016

Come to northern NY. All we have is that kind of dirt.

Donald Lehman · Oct 12, 2016

Do you have anyone close to you with a dozer with a rock rake? If so, have someone chisel it for you, then push the rocks off with the dozer. If you can get em on top, then you can do it the old fashioned way with a chain and drag em off like Randy said, also. The volkswagon size stuff requires a good sized dozer, backhoe, or dynamite. The only way to deal with rocks is get rid of them...........and get rid of them........................and get rid of them..................and get rid of them..........................................Takes a lot of hard work (and years) to turn rock gardens into good farm land, but it can be done.

Leroy · Oct 12, 2016

Are you planing barley year after year? I don't know if it is like wheat that will have problems with planting year after year or not. If not then take the straw off, some one will want it for bedding. Then just a good disk like the IHC no. 37 or Deere and you will be good without plowing or ripping. Is it winter barley or spring barley? If spring the winter might get the straw to where the disk would work the straw into the ground after it decaying over winter. But I think it would make a better crop without plowing. I know we never plowed for wheat.

Mac AR · Oct 12, 2016

Bryce, aren't you in or very near Washington state? If that's the case, here's what Id do: go find a good one-way! A disk tiller would do a much better job than a plow would, especially on ground for small grains. I had one several years ago when I used to drill a lot of oats and soybeans. In my part of Arkansas, we have many rocks. I can show you tons of sandstone in piles and filling ditches, and miles of shale and slaterock walls. I recommend a disk tiller for rocky ground because it will jump the rocks better than even a disk plow. Plus, they're easier to pull, I think. That means less fuel used. Also, they don't usually care if the straw is left or not. They will cut just the same, unless the trash is heavy.
That's my advice, anyway. Try it, maybe it will work as well for you as it did me.

Mac

Bryce Frazier · Oct 12, 2016

So far, yes. This will be my 2nd year planting barley. I have to plant in the spring due to excessive rain / flooding in the spring. So, I don't have anything growing in the winter, but am thinking about experimenting with a cover crop this next year? I am thinking that I should just be using a disc. The more I look / ask around, once you have the soil worked up good each year, a disc will take care of it!

BarnyardEngineering · Oct 13, 2016

In my experience, disks kick up just as many rocks as anything else, and in rocky soil a disk is not going to penetrate very deep and do much of anything unless it has been plowed first.

Been helping my Dad farm rocks for 40 years. There's just no way to stop them.

If you think a Super M can pull a 10ft chisel plow, except maybe to move it around the yard, you're dreaming.

Texasmark1 · Oct 13, 2016

I have been looking for the "right" tillage implements for my farm (heavy clay) for 37 years. The best solution I found, after lots of wasted money and implement is a Hay King Subsoiler (www has them listed), then a tandem disc, then a spike tooted harrow; the new ones that are made from bent up pieces of ?" steel bar bent into shapes that link together, no frame, like the JD (which I had for a time), works best for me.
The subsoiler is built like a tank, had shear bolts on each ripping arm and priced right. I use a 4 shank on my 65 hp tractor. TX. Jim has one too and has commented about it on here.

This is not a moldboard and won't roll heavy cover crops over so don't expect that. Annual grow back, crop residue cover yes, native grasses in a never plowed meadow, no.

Leroy · Oct 13, 2016

Bryce, what time, month , do you harvest the barley? When do you plant it? How long after harvest is your growing season? If you put a cover crop in growing barley it may overcome the crop you are wanting and make hard harvesting. If planting after harvest it may not have time to grow enough to be worthwile. And then it is going to keep ground wetter longer to delay planting and depending on cover crop be hard to get worked up.

Bryce Frazier · Oct 13, 2016

Yes that is very true... I plant in the end of April, start of May, and I harvested mid August this year. We had our first real frost just a night or two ago, so, month and a half of grow time perhaps?

Leroy · Oct 14, 2016

If you wanted a cover crop for over this winter you should have forgot about plowing, just harvested the straw and disked field good and planted by the first of September so you are a month and half late for a cover crop for this year. Some things like winter wheat if gotten in just before a hard freese that lasts all winter sprout and grow and when the snow leaves will be a field of green but yield will always be less. When cover crops are put in around here in Ohio come spring they are harvested for cow feed, usually silage, and then crop planted.

BarnyardEngineering · Oct 14, 2016

(quoted from post at 08:13:37 10/13/16) Yes that is very true... I plant in the end of April, start of May, and I harvested mid August this year. We had our first real frost just a night or two ago, so, month and a half of grow time perhaps?

Actually, 3-1/2 months.

Soil Tilage, Need Options

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads