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I knew that he charged before I hired him

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37chief

Well-known Member
Location
California
Not crying about what I was charged for some dirt work. I needed to make a catch basin to keep mud from leaving my property when it rains. He also spread 20 yards of DG, and spread 12 yards of gravel for a road when it rains below my barn. He charged $100 an hour with a good sized tractor, with a bucket, and scraper. That's about what I charge for mowing. He was there four hours. I thought that was fair. Also he charged $30 for his helper. Not bad. He charged a $100 move in fee. Do you guys charge a move in fee? I never do that. I just drive up, unload and start mowing. Then the clock starts. I think I would lose some customers if I tried that. Stan
 
around here, they also charge 'road' time for moving equipment to job site. If it is a 2 hour drive, they charge $100.00/hr. for every piece of equipment they transport.
 
Forgot to add...even if they are 20 minutes away, it's still a $100.00 per piece of equipment moved to your job transport fee.
 
Some years ago, a high school classmate of mine who was co-owner of a concrete business tried to charge me an hour per day, each way, for travel time to and from the job site. It was five miles.

I didn't pay it.
 
(quoted from post at 19:48:15 09/29/16) Not crying about what I was charged for some dirt work. I needed to make a catch basin to keep mud from leaving my property when it rains. He also spread 20 yards of DG, and spread 12 yards of gravel for a road when it rains below my barn. He charged $100 an hour with a good sized tractor, with a bucket, and scraper. That's about what I charge for mowing. He was there four hours. I thought that was fair. Also he charged $30 for his helper. Not bad. He charged a $100 move in fee. Do you guys charge a move in fee? I never do that. I just drive up, unload and start mowing. Then the clock starts. I think I would lose some customers if I tried that. Stan
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I only have charged a fuel fee a couple of times in 16 years because the job was small and it was a long ways away. I figure someone is going to hire me before someone who charged a minimum or a roading fee. Large equipment (i.e. semi transport) I can see it, small stuff trailered by a trailer...no way!
 
I've never heard of a moving fee. Wish I did back when I planted Milo for Dewayne. It was a 2hrs drive one way to get to his place.

I guess it's not any different than a dealer charging a service fee to drive to your location.

The Case dealer charges $600 round trip to pick up a tractor and return it to your farm.
 
JMOR- I've never had a problem. The price was either included in the overall bid for the job
or the 'transport' costs was listed in the per hour jobs.

I was satisfied with all job costs.
 
Around here they charge from their door and back.
With a min 1 hr travel and 4 hrs work.
Even the guy two doors up told me he would charge me the travel rate.
I wasn't for him and I only charge my time.
If it takes me 2 hrs for a job that's my charge but I don't go further than 30 min. drive time for me.
I believe in only charging for what I actually work.
Guess that's why I've always have work to do and he only has his machine out a cple times a week if that.
Most of my work is for farmers n home owners with about 1000 hrs a yr on my little MF20 TLB.
His is for contractors and only has about 1400 hrs total on his 6 yr old TLB.
 
Everyone I know charges a move in fee. This is even more important on a small job than a big one. I know to work on equipment, I charge $75 per hour (going to $80 first of the year) and $1.50 per mile, from the time I leave the shop until I get back. If MY choice of travel time leaves me sitting in traffic, I'll usually knock off a little for that time. Otherwise it's door to door.....

As for your situation, think about it like this. If the guy is doing a month long job, he is making enough off of it to pay for any repairs that may happen due to the job conditions.

On a small job, this fee guarantees him at least $100 from the word go to cover expenses, regardless if where they arise. Seriously, all it takes is for one line to blow due to hitting a stump, etc, etc, and a 4 hour job can wind up costing the man doing it more than he will make at nothing but a per hour rate. Granted this is all part of doing business, but the extra helps.

I had a customer a few years ago who decided to help a friend out, clearing a little bit of scrub brush and small diameter trees. He made a push into the brush, and hit a yellow jacket next. Even though he had an enclosed cab, his instinct was to back up rather quickly. One of the small trees that had been pushed forward hung, and cammed up underneath the machine. In doing so it took out several hydraulic lines, including a molded suction line. Total on the parts alone was over $3000, plus half a day of my time to fine out what was messed up and then another complete day to change out all of the old parts. In other words, 15 minutes into a job and it cost him nearly $4000... No business can operate with that kind of expense not being covered.



Not to mention with the cost to keep up both the truck, and the trailer, the move in fee, if not used for anything else, probably just does cover the cost to keep the tag, insurance, etc on everything for the year, while his per hour fee pays his other bills.
 
I've lived in a fair number of states and a move fee was normal in all of them for earth moving equipment. When I talk on a mowing job I charge from my drive to my drive with a 4 hour minimum at 45 an hour with a 6 foot cutter. I'm thinking about getting something larger to run behind my 1206. Because I'll cover more ground faster I'll jump that rate up if I do. Charge the same thing for snow removal with the 1206 and 8' blower.

Rick
 
"I believe in only charging for what I actually work." I consider loading, and chaining heavy equipment work. I also consider the truck and trailer equipment, so the equipment and work starts before you get to the job. I used to charge a transport fee for small jobs or it wasn't worth doing. Many years ago I got into a discussion with someone over my rate of $50.00 per hour for dozer and operator. He said "No one gets paid that much". I said what about a lawyer they get $150.00 per hour. He said "But he has an investment in his education". Exasperated I said "I pull up to your place with a truck, trailer and dozer, I consider that an investment also, have you checked the price of equipment"?
 
Whatever their rate of pay is per hour is what they charge from the time they leave the shop, to the time they finish up cleaning & loading the equipment back on the trailer.
 
Along these same lines you have, for example, a hole in your roof. You get a bid or so, maybe take the 1st as you may feel like the guy is "right" for your job. You tell him what you want done, he develops a plan, goes to the store and gets the materials (travel time, shopping time) comes back and does the work. Hopes he got the right patch in the right spot to stop the leak but if not he gets called back to try harder, more time, more money........

I do most things around here myself, but when it's more than I can do, I try to keep in mind just how much behind the scenes effort is necessary to get-r-done......aka kicking the tires and loading your dozer on your flatbed and booming her down, 30 miles from the job site, with all the transportation's equipment (that has nothing really to do with the job itself) that has to be costed out, purchase price, tires, upkeep, taxes, insurance, your setup and travel time, plus takedown time when you get back home.......

Something to think about on both sides if you ask me, owner operator, and customer!
 
I put travel time,hauling charges to a job etc etc into the same catagory as Buyers Premium at an auction,when I'm looking to get some work done I just figure it into an estimate I get.Just like the Buyers Premium they charge it because they can and hope the customer forgets about it until it shows up on the bill.I get that same type stuff all the time when someone wants to look at something off CL."I'm coming so far I need a break on the price" maybe so but its not my problem where you live.Customers at Walmart don't get a discount because they have to drive 30 miles to get to the store over people that just live down the block.
 
This is as old as dirt!!! I see two option charge higher for the job $150 hour and no fees or charge less and due travel fees. Kind of like chicken and egg.
 
It costs money to move equipment and those that dont collect it one way or another are not in business very long. Some add it into the hourly rate, some charge it as a separate fee. Bottom line is if your happy with the job and the total price then how it is broken down should not cause heartburn.
 
Stop and think about it this way. If you had to hire your equipment moved, instead of moving it yourself, could you eat that expense? Or if your employee moved it, would you just pay him and not charge for his time? Expenses Have to be covered somehow, or you go bankrupt. To me the only issue is how they are charged, I would rather see a line item than have it hidden in the hourly rate, or built in to a minimum charge. Knowing it up front is very important, I was caught once with a minimum on a rental after I had already billed my customer at the hourly rate, for less than the minimum.
 
The most important thing is that they are up front with it. They should tell you before they come on site that they charge $X an hour plus $Y transport fee.

Then it is up to you to hire them, or not. If you agree to this up front, then complain about the transport fee after the job is done, YOU are the ***hole. You knew about it. You agreed to it. Shut up and pay it.

If the transport fee is disagreeable to you, then don't hire the guy. You will likely be out there with a shovel digging whatever hole you need dug because nobody will touch your job.

If they tell you it's $X per hour up front and then slap you with a hidden transport fee at the end of the day, you've got a legitimate beef.
 
Was it a one hour job or a one day job? Usually if it is a long job they should absorb the moving fee. I know the guys who do work for me and they usually have a full day unless they are passing by. I have my own dozer for the small jobs but hire the bigger jobs.
 
Stan,
Before I bought a Terramite to do my own work, a local guy wanted $200 move in fee to bring in his backhoe.

When I have to load a tractor to mow my other property, It takes me more time hooking up to trailer, loading it, strapping it down, driving 15 miles, gassing up on the way, than it does to mow 2 acres. Then I have to load a second time, drive, unload and put tractor away and unhook the trailer. Transporting time is worth something too. Perhaps I should pay myself a bonus. geo
 
The guy that does my dozer work knows that I hate to pay move-in fees for small jobs, so we work together on it.
I tell him what I need and he calls the next time he is working in the area and says "I'll be going down your road tomorrow, do you want me to stop and do that little job? System works good for both of us.
 
You're smart to be there on site when they are working too,probably no business has more ripoffs than earth moving/heavy equipment.Saw it all the time when I worked for the concrete company,
owner getting charged for machines for a whole day that maybe ran a couple hrs.Good example was a land clearing job being done by the hr on a place across the road from the end of my land,these guys were getting there at 8AM crank the loader and dozer then sit in their truck for an hr or more drinking coffee and eating breakfast then run the machines for awhile take a long break work a little more take a long lunch then a long break in the afternoon.Ended up running the machines about half the time.I called the owner who I knew from my concrete days and told him he needed to come watch from my place for a day. He ran them off but they had ripped him off pretty good.Go by most any job like that and you'll see guys standing around not running machines like they are getting paid for when they are on the clock or creeping around barely doing anything.
 
I always charge from the time I leave the shop, until I leave the job. That is my move in fee. The customer pays for me to get it there, I pay to get it back home. Fair for everyone.
 
(quoted from post at 05:50:09 09/30/16) You're smart to be there on site when they are working too,probably no business has more ripoffs than earth moving/heavy equipment.Saw it all the time when I worked for the concrete company,
owner getting charged for machines for a whole day that maybe ran a couple hrs.Good example was a land clearing job being done by the hr on a place across the road from the end of my land,these guys were getting there at 8AM crank the loader and dozer then sit in their truck for an hr or more drinking coffee and eating breakfast then run the machines for awhile take a long break work a little more take a long lunch then a long break in the afternoon.Ended up running the machines about half the time.I called the owner who I knew from my concrete days and told him he needed to come watch from my place for a day. He ran them off but they had ripped him off pretty good.Go by most any job like that and you'll see guys standing around not running machines like they are getting paid for when they are on the clock or creeping around barely doing anything.
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Funny but here it's carpentry crews. Someone for one of the small crews will constantly be on their cell either talking or texting, maybe posting on a forum all the time while they are supposed to be working. The contractor himself won't say too much unless the customer complains because they can never find enough help. We have several smaller earth moving outfits but they are pretty honest. Most of their work is done by the bid, not by the hour. One if possible will leave his equipment on site rather than move it so he can save a little but he charges less if he can leave the equipment there until needed. He did that when my BIL had his drive redone. He left a scraper there for about a month.

Rick
 
I do brush hogging and tilling on a small scale. When I bid a job I usually figure in the time involved from the time I leave my house until I return.
 
Last time I used one particular on farm tire repair service they pulled that stunt on me. It was just a young kid who did the job. He called the office and had them figure the bill. It was beyond staggering. I had him call them back so I could talk to them. By now it was about ten minutes in to another hour. They told me that by the time he got loaded up and got back to the shop,it would be another hour. I told them he was all loaded,I helped him do it and that it took so long because he was inexperienced. It didn't do any good,they were going to charge me for a service call,trip charge and his time on the road and that was that. I paid him,but I never called them again.
 
'Move in' fee sounds like a 'rip off' fee. Alot of slick operators out there. I would not pay a dime beyond what was discussed up front.
 
I charge what I think the job should take if I was still able to work at a steady pace. No mileage ever. I'm old and broken down just like the equipment. Most pay me more than I ask for.
 
One of the few haulers around here started that stuff. $35 a stop. Figures out to near $6500 a year for every other day pickup. That's more off one stop than I ever made in a year when I hauled back in the mid 70s.
 
You did not read my complete post did you? I said I knew what ALL the charges were up front. I was not complaining about anything. I was just wondering if I should be charging a move in charge, and wondering if others charge this move in fee. Please take time to read the complete post, so you don't cuss me out next time. Stan
 
I'm not an excavator, just relating my experience with a job quote. My job was 55 miles one way from the shop, in a remote area. I expected some kind of travel/setup/distance/moving fee with the bid for my runway job. There are exactly two dirt movers in the town nearby.

First guy comes up and gives me a quote, he charged half hourly rate just to come up and quote the job. Ok, so he gives me a number, and it's pretty fair. I ask the simple question 'is this going to be all for the whole job start to finish?' It took him about 200 words to eventually say 'no'. There will be a site fee, and a clean up fee. by the time it was all done - his rate had gone up 30%

Second guy was completely shady. He gave me a lowball 'estimate' and said it could go up based on what he found when he got there(didn't come to site to eval). Yes, he had a move in fee, and also a few other fees.

I also don't mind what fees are needed to get the job done, but please - be straight up to get the whole job done, and don't make me play 20 questions to tease out the deal.
 
In my world , I'm the one with the $$$$$ and as such I will be the one with a drawn up contract to be signed by said contractor and myself BEFORE any authorization to start any work. You will get NO BS this way and the ones that walk away ...well ...good riddens. Honest people have no problem doing business the honest way.
 
My fence contractor always charged an equipment moving fee. He really needed to do so, he contracted that out to a third party.
 
Around here they call it a "float charge " , because they have to use a float to haul the dozer or excavator to your job . And yes I understand , you just can't drive tracked equipment down the road . And the equipment to haul it with has cost associated with it . Now what I don't see is , how can you do your job , if you don't haul your self to the job ? Even our veterinarian has what he calls " an arrival fee ". Seems like a rip off to me,They expect me to pay them to go to their job , but how can they do their job if they don't travel there . Vet sure don't want me to bring my cows to his office . Just common business practice,t's called " Make the suckers pay " .
 
Guys the big problem here is if someone includes move and setup on a 4 hour job and it's now 5 hours when the customer receives the bill they are going to flip because they only did ________ for 4 hours. So an up front estimate should include any fees for a move and setup. Don't care if it's an on site tire or equipment repair, an on site vet visit or a mowing service. Or like I do it, up front, from my drive to my drive. But that's told to the customer up front. I don't charge for on site repairs and such. It's by the hour meter. That way there are no surprises for the customer. It also keeps customers away who I really don't want to work for in the first place. The guys who expect a decent job and are willing to pay fair don't gripe, they just pay. The guys that want to pay little or nothing, also the same guys who take forever to pay are the ones who complain. You have to think, gee, that equipment will set there, not burning any fuel if he doesn't get the job. But if they get the job it's starts costing the second they fire up a piece of equipment or like with a vet when they start their truck.

So yea, I'd say you need to either charge enough per hour to cover move cost, charge drive to drive or charge a separate transit fee. One way or another you have to cover costs.

Rick
 
No. The equipment was already at the job site. They were just driving a pickup back and forth. I had other issues with him on that job.
 
that sounds good for a price, i know people around here that charge more, most will charge a fee to transport equipment, when you haul heavy equipment it costs considerable out of pocket, you just cant absorb that it has to be passed onto the customer, one of the most expensive lessons i had to learn, i was going broke and working my butt off before the economy tanked, the missing money was in the moving the equipment around, its expensive, on my mowing, unless i can drive the tractor to the job, i charge a transport fee, out here i may have to haul 60 miles one way
 
I'd charge a move or float charge too. Trailer, trucks and time to move are not cheap. If you do similar distances and time at all your customers, you can build it into your hourly rate to make billing simple. If all your customers are close but one is a 2 hour drive away, its not really fair for your close customers to subsidize you driving out to the one person far away.
 
I really don't think anyone is trying to say that anyone should not charge for any expences incurred whether labor or otherwise. The complaint is when it amounts to what I call "predatory marketing"..which is to quote just the main body of work knowing darn well of all the little extras that will be added at the end. They do it so their "first" quote will be the low one that most customers will use to comparitive shop and figuring the competition will be doing same and they won't get the job if they tell ALL the truth right up front .This kind of thing is RAMPANT in this country from TV ads to any/all media ads. "Predatory marketing" uses just the right key words to keep the lawyers away with the hope that most customers won't "spot" them. If people can't make a living being honest then why not just get ta H out and do something else.
 
if he charges move in fee then the only thing he gets paid for is labor ? 100/hr. do you get paid for gas or travel for working in a factory ?wear and tear on his tools? thats the cost of doing business around here. i would never pay that.
 
if I was transporting I would too
I said I stay within 30 mins of my place I should of said that's driving the MF20 TLB (20 miles)
I get some tractor time that way too and get to enjoy the country side s well
my charges are 65 per hr on completion of the job told to them before starting
I give them the bill at the end of the job and collect payment
I don't send invoices and have no receivables that way
 
(quoted from post at 19:02:09 09/30/16) if he charges move in fee then the only thing he gets paid for is labor ? 100/hr. do you get paid for gas or travel for working in a factory ?wear and tear on his tools? thats the cost of doing business around here. i would never pay that.
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Thing is a contractor/vet/mechanic is on the job the moment they start loading, doing pre trips ECT. Part of the job is moving from one site to another. A worker isn't on the clock until they punch in.

So they have to charge one of 3 ways. 1. Charge enough an hour to cover the move cost. 2. A move charge. 3. From place of business to the site and back as part of the hourly charge.

And even if they use option #1 you are still paying for that move in a higher hourly rate. And it depends on the area what's the accepted practice. But it doesn't matter, you are paying for it one way or another.

We have a couple of locals with smaller older equipment that less per hour than the bigger guys. You still pay about the same or more because it takes them longer and as a one man show they have more interruptions because they have to field calls too. For some reason they don't knock that 15 minute call off the charged time.

Rick
 
I'm in the excavating, site prep, gravel business etc. and a one man show.
I charge to move machinery, price depending on the distance. If the machine will be there for quite a while where I get a lot of hours, I generally reduce the moving charge. I charge by the hour so I use the hour meter. I do not run the machine while I'm doing something other than the job (always). Some of the bigger contractors charge a full day for a machine even if it's only used an hour or two, reasoning being that it could be making money some where else. I would not want to pay that so I feel strongly about doing things about charging my way which I believe is only fair.
DWF
 
Hi, I had an excavating business for about 30 years. If a customer called and wanted me by the hr, I would tell him the rate plus 1 hr move. If it was job for contract price I would include 1 hr into price. I had a truck and trailer to pay for and its expenses, insurance etc.Ed Will Oliver BC9
 
Hi, I had an excavating business for about 30 years. If a customer called and wanted me by the hr, I would tell him the rate plus 1 hr move. If it was job for contract price I would include 1 hr into price. I had a truck and trailer to pay for and its expenses, insurance etc.Ed Will Oliver BC9
 
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