Chopping corn (pic)

Helped the nephew and BIL. Another guy who is helping and is the one operating that tractor owns the White. Young guy working a regular job and trying to get into farming. My BIL and nephew have been helping him some so he's now helping them. I ask him why he chose the White and he said "because I can't afford a red tractor yet"! Not picking on White or AGCO but dealer support is so poor here they just don't bring the money that JD, CaseIH/IH do. I've never heard anything bad about a White tractor.



I was running another tractor packing the silage. Yield is looking real good!

Rick

I'm amazed at how many operations still bring in their corn with a row crop tractor, 2-row chopper, and self-unloading wagons.

Around here Dad's one of the few left that still does it that way. Most operations either own a giant Claas chopper and a bunch of trucks, or hire one of the operations that owns a giant Claas chopper and a bunch of trucks.

(quoted from post at 11:25:24 09/27/16) I'm amazed at how many operations still bring in their corn with a row crop tractor, 2-row chopper, and self-unloading wagons.

Around here Dad's one of the few left that still does it that way. Most operations either own a giant Claas chopper and a bunch of trucks, or hire one of the operations that owns a giant Claas chopper and a bunch of trucks.

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My BIL is real tight with money, always has been. It took my nephew a long time to talk his dad into buying 2 wagons like that and they got a very good deal on them from a friend of mine who went so far as to take payments on them.

We have a few guys around here that are still using 2 row choppers. But we are seeing more of the bigger self propelled ones every year.

Nephew and BIL are feeding about 300 head total over winter. Besides the pile they will fill 2 silos too.

Rick

Growing up as a kid in the 60's we did silage with a 1 row chopper and about a 50 horse tractor on the front of it.

We pulled a 1 row Papec with a 770, The last 2 years with a 2-70 and then pa got the 702 NI- Uni. Opened a lot of fields with rig for the neighbors. There were 3 neighbors that had 570 or 570 Super Cockshutts. They all pulled the chopper with those tractors and they definitely had a hearty bellar to them and stayed around well after the 1855's and 4020's were added to their respective stables.

Do you remember the difference between flywheel cut and a little later what we called lawnmower cut if I remember correctly.

Most operations own a giant chopper and trucks.... No, they are just making payments on the expensive things. Row crop tractor, chopper and wagons are paid for. Nothing wrong with using small, paid for equipment and doing things yourself.

I just finished. No new pictures,but here are a few from last year. Same tractors,same chopper and same wagons,so no sense in new ones I guess.
I have about four acres of some east/west rows standing yet,but there just flat out isn't any room for any more.I put 81 loads in last year,84 this year,and there was a little bit left yet from last year when I started.I chopped,hauled,unloaded,pushed and packed every one of them myself.

I don't know why it is that on what should be the last day,things start to go wrong. I started the day with 14 loads left in the north/south rows that I wanted to get finished up. I got 6 this morning,two right after dinner,then when I got off to hook up a wagon,there was antifreeze leaking down behind the A/C compressor. I looked close and it was coming from a hose back in there. I wasn't far from the house,so I shot home with it and got here before it overheated. I got that changed,chopped another load and saw something on the ground that looked like a black snake. I hoped with all I had in me that if it was a belt,it was the A/C belt,but no,it was one of the two fan belts.
I finally chopped the last load after supper and got them all pushed in. Looks like rain is on its way and will stick around for a few days. Let it rain. The boys are coming this weekend to put the plastic on the bunker.

I always have to think back to when I was a kid. My uncle did our chopping with an Oliver 88 diesel,a Fox 1 row chopper and two false endgate wagons.

Yes, in the early 1950s my Dad bought a NH Forage Harvester with a single row corn head and windrow pickup, a NH Forage blower and 2 rear unloading wagons. I don't remember the model number of the NH Forage Harvester but it had a Wisconsin V4 air cooled gas engine on it. It was a a flywheel cutter with 6 knives just like the old silage cutters. You had to remove the knives to sharpen them. Then in about 1955 o 56 the IH Dealer invited my Dad to a demo of their about be released #15 Forage Harvester that used 6 lawnmower type knives and you could sharpen the knives on the machine. My Dad bought one of the first IH #15s and we had plenty of problems with it the first year but IH stood behind the machine and we had many visits from the Dealer and the "Block Man" I believe that was what IH special Techs were called.
JImB

In central NJ we had a JD36 chopper behind a 350 and a Gehl self unloader wagon. Boy all of the corn around here is brown already and the beans are brown but still nice and chewey.

I don't think I was in grade school yet when the last silo filling was on this farm. The silo got porous and dad didn't feel like replastering it again
for the few cattle he had. 3-4 neighbors got together, my uncle had the 2 row chopper green and orange as I recall mostly green, pulled with a
17xx or 18xx Oliver gas.

The other 2 or three neighbors used the barge boxes with extra sides bolted on, and a false front with cables to a pipe bolted on the back, and
a tall end gate on the back. Think all that was homemade. Still have it all sitting in the corners, still have the barge box.

They had a manure hauling party in August after small grains were off, went to each farm with a loader and 3-4 manure spreaders, spread the
piles. Then in September was the chopping party, went to each and hauled the silage in.

I remember the manure hauling a lot more, I was involved with thrm for several years into high school.

Paul

Uncle used to come chop our corn with a Farmall 400 and IH chopper. Had a little unit set up to pull the false fronts on the wagons back. Uncle had the muffler laying down on the 400 so he could get it into his shed. Dad's WD45 ran the belt blower.

Way back when we first started chopping, it was with a DC Case and an old Case chopper, wagons didn't have hoists, but Dad had a chain with something on
the floor of the wagon that you drug out to unload it. I have no idea how much he chopped that way. About 1969, he bought a 570 Super Cockshutt, and
pulled the neighbors Super 717. We chopped with the neighbor, and as many old drunks as my uncle could round up in Valentine. Burl had the choppers, and
2 wagons, as well as another 570 Super and a 30 gas Cockshutt. Dad had his 570 Super, a 570 Super with a loader that was the push/packer (I ran it from
the time I was about 10 on) a DC and a SC Case that pulled wagons. We hauled silage a little over a mile to the pit. Have no idea how many tons we put
up, but the Supers sure enough blew BLACK smoke pulling the choppers!!

My uncles chopped with a Farmall H (yes, H, NOT M) and, of course, a one row IHC chopper. Occasionally had to hook another H on to pull the unit. Kinda slow, but got er done!

Back in 1952 dad bought a new Gehl one row chopper with a engine on it. On the side of the engine it said Red Seal. I figured the engine was about 35 HP and pulled it with a WD. Always hated it when school started because loved to help fill silo. For 5 or 6 years seemed like dad cut silage for most of the neighbors around there.

this is how i remember it done, with a farmall M and later a massy 1105 substituted for the white, i too see more of the big operations using the big self propelled ones and a bunch of trucks, but at my age i think when its no longer done like these pics, something will really have been lost

I used to help FIL fill silo back in the 70's. He ran the 1-row IH binder behind an E-3 and we hired local kids to pick up bundles to hay wagons. Then hand feed them to a Papec chopper belted to an E-4.

My neighbor, who is a one man band milking around 60 head, used to chop with a 2 row NH717 on an IH966 to fill his bunk silo. He owned 2 Gehl wagons and would borrow one or two more if he could. For the last few years he has had it custom shopped (large JD self propelled chopper and dump trucks). Sold his harvester and wagons earlier this month. He told me if he did it himself his diesel fuel alone is about 70% of what he would pay the custom guy. I don?t see how you can afford NOT to hire it done..

I always loved helping our neighbors fill silo's. All cane sileage no corn back then. Our neighbor had a WD-45 with a single row papec cutter in 12' cane it would glow RED from the exhaust manifold to the tip of the muffler. Strongest tractor I had seen at the time. Wish I was out filling silo right now.

He must be paying a lot for diesel fuel. Those custom operators use lots of fuel as well. Around here it is several hundred dollars an hour for the chopper and so much an hour for each tractor and cart plus the packing tractor. You do not save money hiring it done but do save time if you are short on help. There are several big chopping crews in my area but most smaller farmers still do their own. Tom

(quoted from post at 11:05:02 09/28/16) He must be paying a lot for diesel fuel. Those custom operators use lots of fuel as well. Around here it is several hundred dollars an hour for the chopper and so much an hour for each tractor and cart plus the packing tractor. You do not save money hiring it done but do save time if you are short on help. There are several big chopping crews in my area but most smaller farmers still do their own. Tom

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While that's true it isn't how much he's burning per hour, it's how much he's getting done for the amount of work being done. That White is supposed to burn about 6 gallons an hour. According to what I can find the big SP units can chop 5-12 times as much an hour given conditions. So if the SP can chop 5 acres and hour (just an example) on 25 gallons the White with 2 row is going to burn 30 gallons to chop that much. I'm guessing that the numbers are actually higher. An 8 row is going to chop at least 4 times as much at the same ground speed. I know how fast you can push that 2 row without plugging problems. I've seen some of the big ones and I'll bet they are moving 1 1/2 to 3 times as fast if not faster. At 1 1/2 4 times. At 3....12 times. Now go into hired hands. One man operation. Gotta stop at chore time. For what we were doing going to run at least 2 hired men. Going to get less done because that type operation using self unloading wagons isn't going to be as efficient. More time spent not chopping waiting on wagons ECT. If you want an empty wagon waiting on the chopper you better add another man, tractor and at least one wagon. So without getting into the math a custom crew with trucks and say 5 men may be efficient enough to be cheaper than doing it yourself. Each operation would have to see if it would pencil out for them. But you can bet the guys hiring it done are not paying that money out without it being to their good. Another advantage to having it done is less equipment to depreciate and maintain. Just something else to add in.

Rick

Ya,that number has me scratching my head too. I chopped 84 loads off just over 30 acres. Took me 8 days working alone. I filled the White 2-135 four times in all that. Filled the 1365 that I packed and leveled with once,and the 2-105 that I hauled with once. The 2-135 holds 59 gallons,but it was far from empty,probably could have gone three days instead of two,but didn't want to press my luck.

Let's over estimate and say it took 45 gallons each time I filled the 135,that's 180 gallons. The 1365 holds something like 14,but I didn't use it all. The 105,I don't know,let's over blow that one too and say I used 40 gallons,which I doubt. We're at 234 gallons. I got fuel a few weeks ago for $1.75. That's about $410.

I know for a fact from hearing one guy complain that he didn't know ahead of time,that when the custom operator is done,you have to fill all their trucks and equipment with fuel,plus pay whatever they charge per hour. I'm having a heck of a time believing that I could have gotten the job done by a custom operator for just 30% over the $410 that I spent doing myself.

That sounds like what my Dad and a few neighbors did from probably the 1950s into early 80s.

I remember the manure cleaning in late August and a row of spreaders from the neighbors waiting for dad to fill them with 1936 WC Allis with trip bucket loader. The hydraulic pump would get so hot it would not lift and he'd hang bags of ice on it. That would have been in the early 1970s. When I was old enough, I got to run one of the spreaders. Remember sitting in the cattle yard with AC WD45 and a ground drive Minnesota spreader. Mom would use the bigger newer spreader. The last couple of years, it was just Dad and Mom. I spent a couple weekends doing the last cleanup the fall (1997) before Dad retired as he was in the hospital. That old WC was (and still is) a brute to handle with that loader.

Neighbors were older than dad and when they retired in the 80s he eventually ended up with the last Chopper (New Holland 717, 1 row), the blower & pipes (Allis Chalmers), and 2 of the wagons. Wagons were rear swing open barn door types and a apron chain in the floor. They were not self-unloading and you had to use corn hook/forks at the back to unload onto the conveyer belt for the blower. Much smaller than the photo here. Pipes got moved from farm to farm and someone would have to climb the silo w/rope tied on their waist to run it through a pulley up there. Rope tied to the pipes on the ground and other end to tractor to hoist them up. In later years it was me up there. Not a safe deal at all when the gooseneck came up and the man on the ladder had to grab it and steer it into the roof hatch on the silo. The last time I did that was 1996 and no way I would do that now! One slip and you'd be very thin on the ground.

In the later years, Dad used a White 2-105 with that chopper and the picture starting this thread looked just like back in the 1980s. Wish there were pictures of the Moline M-670 from the 1970s on the chopper but there are none.

I don't think I was in grade school yet when the last silo filling was on this farm. The silo got porous and dad didn't feel like replastering it again
for the few cattle he had. 3-4 neighbors got together, my uncle had the 2 row chopper green and orange as I recall mostly green, pulled with a
17xx or 18xx Oliver gas.

The other 2 or three neighbors used the barge boxes with extra sides bolted on, and a false front with cables to a pipe bolted on the back, and
a tall end gate on the back. Think all that was homemade. Still have it all sitting in the corners, still have the barge box.

They had a manure hauling party in August after small grains were off, went to each farm with a loader and 3-4 manure spreaders, spread the
piles. Then in September was the chopping party, went to each and hauled the silage in.

I remember the manure hauling a lot more, I was involved with thrm for several years into high school.

Paul

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(quoted from post at 12:14:19 09/28/16) Ya,that number has me scratching my head too. I chopped 84 loads off just over 30 acres. Took me 8 days working alone. I filled the White 2-135 four times in all that. Filled the 1365 that I packed and leveled with once,and the 2-105 that I hauled with once. The 2-135 holds 59 gallons,but it was far from empty,probably could have gone three days instead of two,but didn't want to press my luck.

Let's over estimate and say it took 45 gallons each time I filled the 135,that's 180 gallons. The 1365 holds something like 14,but I didn't use it all. The 105,I don't know,let's over blow that one too and say I used 40 gallons,which I doubt. We're at 234 gallons. I got fuel a few weeks ago for $1.75. That's about $410.

I know for a fact from hearing one guy complain that he didn't know ahead of time,that when the custom operator is done,you have to fill all their trucks and equipment with fuel,plus pay whatever they charge per hour. I'm having a heck of a time believing that I could have gotten the job done by a custom operator for just 30% over the $410 that I spent doing myself.

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You didn't add the value of your time, maintenance or depreciation of equipment. All that has to be added in too if you are really going to see if it pencils out. I doubt it will for someone doing 30 or so acres. But some of the dairies around here of 500 plus cow farms. Even for smaller operations that hires a couple of operators it may be cost effective to hire it out. Heck I was just reading that some of the big SPs can chop 340 or more TONS an hour! So I would guess fuel consumption would be based on tons per gallon. From a little research some of the big choppers are cutting 204 to 359 tons an hour and burning between 30 and 50 gallons an hour.


So take your 410 for fuel and add in the cost of yearly maintenance and lubes, depreciation replacement cost as stuff wears out and your time at a farm managers wages. Lot more complicated than just your fuel.

Rick

That's what it would cost me out of pocket,period.

(quoted from post at 08:53:53 09/29/16) That's what it would cost me out of pocket,period.

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I understand that. But you still have depreciation of equipment and you are not going to tell me you didn't grease anything now are you? Plus what's your time worth? I know you are not going to tell me you are worthless! You might say that about me, but not yourself! Farming is a business! It has to be treated as such. Look I'm not saying that you would be money ahead having it done. I'm saying that if you in all honestly count all the cost associated with putting that silage up then and only then can you determine if doing it yourself is cheaper or not. That's why your time has to counted in at the cost of hiring an operator. You could be doing something else while they are doing it that might be more profitable.

You can't figure out what something is costing by "my out of pocket". No business can. A guy living in town can say my out of pocket expense for my car is XXX. A farmer can't most of the time because while they use the car for non farm stuff they also use it for the farm. That part for farm use has to be counted against the farm. The guys that figure in everything can easily figure out when it's time to replace a piece of equipment and when it's worth it to repair. Or for that matter when it's time to change how they do things.

Rick