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Eldon (WA)

Well-known Member
to getting this Deere set-up for custom brush-hogging. Got the front wheels out to 71" between the tires. I added 1" x 5/8" x 2" long spacers to get the last 4". I don't plan on using 4x4 or the loader with this setup. I should be getting my 5" machined aluminum rear wheel spacers/adapters this week sometime. They will adapt my 18.4 x 30 rears with power adjust wheels to this tractor and put me about 106" at the widest point.



 
I'd be nervous as a cat in a room of rocking chairs.
I'd be surprised if those front bolts stay tight. I'd be
for checking those daily.
 
(quoted from post at 20:38:41 08/22/16) I'd be nervous as a cat in a room of rocking chairs.
I'd be surprised if those front bolts stay tight. I'd be
for checking those daily.
Click to expand...

I have them double nutted.....and they are right before my eyes all the time.
 
I'm with notjustair, you will be buying rims and wheel centers with that setup, you would have been better off using solid blocks instead of those bushings. Good Luck!
 
now that is totally not right! those holes will be worn out in no time flat. at least if you had a solid block welded to the rim, then had the bolts threw the block, but that is useless, never last.
 
Then you"ll be able to watch them fall off...hopefully not at road speed. That setup is more than weak, just a disaster waiting to happen.
 
(quoted from post at 21:03:16 08/22/16) now that is totally not right! those holes will be worn out in no time flat. at least if you had a solid block welded to the rim, then had the bolts threw the block, but that is useless, never last.
Click to expand...

Well, my engineering mind says otherwise...guess we will see. The worst that can happen is the wheel starts to wobble and I will change it. Like I said, this is light duty work...I have run this for a couple of hours already and nothing has loosened up.
 
yep, steering setup is altered and also liable in the case of an accident. hope it stays in the ditches and off the roads.
 
(quoted from post at 21:30:46 08/22/16) yep, steering setup is altered and also liable in the case of an accident. hope it stays in the ditches and off the roads.
Click to expand...

Please explain how the steering is altered??
 
With that much offset, the modest bump becomes a steering linkage bending disaster. I also agree with the others that the spacers are a weak point. I also will
point out the dramatic increase in force applied to the 4X spindles,(powered or not) Your detail and intent is good. The fix is a wider axle housing. I do not
understand what is gained on a pivoting axle when widening it. Jim
 
(quoted from post at 21:45:09 08/22/16) With that much offset, the modest bump becomes a steering linkage bending disaster. I also agree with the others that the spacers are a weak point. I also will
point out the dramatic increase in force applied to the 4X spindles,(powered or not) Your detail and intent is good. The fix is a wider axle housing. I do not
understand what is gained on a pivoting axle when widening it. Jim
Click to expand...

The point of widening the front and rear is to get maximum width of cut with an 8' Bush Hog without leaving rooster tails. In tall grass or weeds, at least half of the front tire has to run on cut grass for a clean cut. Most people do not care, I do and have a reputation for leaving a great looking field. Also, the wider the wheelbase of the tractor, the more stable it will be on hillsides and ditches, and also offer a little better ride. If you think about the tremendous force those front wheels and kingpins take when using a loader to maximum capacity, what I am doing is nothing. I am more concerned about using aluminum spacers on the rear, where when I lift the mower on an incline I will have almost the total weight of the tractor and mower on those two spacers.....
 
The distance from the center of the king pin to the center of the tire is larger. So when the tire hits/pushes against anything it puts more force on the steering linkage. The steering arm's, where the tie rod hooks, ratio to the center lines is less so it has less mechanical advantage to steer the wheels.

So when you drop that wheel into a hole/ditch it will put more force on the steering linkage.
 
Those JD front wheel centers and rim holes are prone to cracking anyway with your set up it'll increase the chance of that happening,plus you're putting more stress on the whole
front end.
 
I will second the rims cracking and coming loose. I have had to replace one on the 8300 last year. The bolt on it were always coming loose.
 
Eldon, you are a brave man to post this with this crowd. As soon as I saw your post, I knew there would be a dozen replies criticizing it for some reason or another. I just wish I had such a rig when growing up, brush-hogging the hillsides of WV. We had the rear wheels on a MF 135 spun out as wide as possible, and I spent a lot of time with my arm hooked around the fender headlight to keep from sliding off the seat. Why don't you report back every six months and let us all learn how successful your rig is.
 
Eldon, I guess you really going to trust those spacers. Man that gives me the willys . Its just me
im sure but i wouldn't trust that for no mans money. For the power the tractor has if you did
somewhat get in a jam it just looks like its too weak of a link between the tractor and ground..
Be careful.......
 
This isn't just, "Beat up on Eldon for the sake of beating up on Eldon." People have legitimate concerns for Eldon's safety, the safety of others around him, and the condition of his very expensive tractor.

Eldon, one wheel is ALWAYS going to be running down uncut grass, except on the last pass, so you're going to have "rooster tails" no matter what.
 
Its your money, your trac and your life so you can do as you want. The looks of that scare
the crap out of me. Do you realize how much stress is on those front wheels when you turn.
There is a 5000 series not far from me that my cousin bought new in 2008 or 9 and it was 6
months old when the front steering knuckle snapped off. He said he thought the whole tractor
was going over. Deere replace it and 3 months later it happened again but this time it really
screwed the tractor up beyond repair and Deere replaced the whole trac. He said that if he had
been going down the road it would have rolled. If you are going to do this at least have solid
blocs made instead of spacers. Good luck and be safe
 
Having been in the business of fixing
problems like your for 30 years I can say
that you have a problem on the way. No way
that is going to hold up. I would hate to
see you loose a wheel at road speed. A
spacer can be made that will work for there,
but it will have to be a solid piece so the
2 parts are still clamped together with a
large surface area. Those pipes will flex
and work back and forth til the wheel breaks
for sure. Drill holes in a solid piece or
fabricate something that has a flat on both
sides and can't flex.
 
Go to a welding shop and see if they can cut you a solid round piece to use for spacer. I ain't no engineer but I no bad engineering when I see it.
 

I'm sure this is a dumb question but I really don't know... Are the front tires rolling backwards or is that some kind of illusion? If they are rolling backwards, why?
 
Hi. I have to say that I've mowed more filth then I care to admit .. Steep tough rough thick and thin. Grass and brush
regardless of what you do your not going to stop the so called rooster tails you call them . The only time any bush
hog cuts clean is the first pass..the rest has 1 tire always in the grass brush etc... You are going to damage your
tractor .. They are designed to run at the manufacturers limits only . The engineers that designed the machine took
all this into consideration with a very small amount of extreme use. The tractor is built to run at the limits it has only. I
wish you luck . You are a time bomb waiting to blow with that set up . You would not last long where I mow with a
set up like that..if you even got started. Better you then me...
 
(quoted from post at 07:17:19 08/23/16) Hi. I have to say that I've mowed more filth then I care to admit .. Steep tough rough thick and thin. Grass and brush
regardless of what you do your not going to stop the so called rooster tails you call them . The only time any bush
hog cuts clean is the first pass..the rest has 1 tire always in the grass brush etc... You are going to damage your
tractor .. They are designed to run at the manufacturers limits only . The engineers that designed the machine took
all this into consideration with a very small amount of extreme use. The tractor is built to run at the limits it has only. I
wish you luck . You are a time bomb waiting to blow with that set up . You would not last long where I mow with a
set up like that..if you even got started. Better you then me...
Click to expand...
16 years of custom brushhogging here...I think I have it pretty much down to an art...

 
While I agree that a solid spacer would be better, and that extra strain will be placed on the system. I also see Eldon's point that there won't be much weight on the front of the tractor.
I can also see why those bolts would come loose, and there would be problems in that area to begin with, as it looks like the piece welded to the rim is not solid, but a piece of flat stock folded into a U.
 
(quoted from post at 07:12:30 08/23/16)
I'm sure this is a dumb question but I really don't know... Are the front tires rolling backwards or is that some kind of illusion? If they are rolling backwards, why?
Click to expand...

There are two reasons they are running backwards. #1 it is easier to change them back for loader work (just flip them around) #2 Running backwards gives a less "choppy" ride. The manual even says you may want to run them backwards for loader work.
 

You're worrying about tractor tires running in cut grass and the mower tires do just that.
You're making a problem that does NOT exist.
 
(quoted from post at 08:04:48 08/23/16)
You're worrying about tractor tires running in cut grass and the mower tires do just that.
You're making a problem that does NOT exist.
Click to expand...

Have your ever ran an 8' Bush Hog?? I have a feeling most of you guys have only ran single spindle mowers....they do cut differently. If you run the outside tire in uncut grass, some of it will lay flat to the outside and slide right under the skid plate so the blades can't reach it...and will become a rooster tail. Running half a tire width or less in the grass pushes the grass inside, where the blade rotation picks it up and cuts it clean.
 
(quoted from post at 08:00:19 08/23/16) While I agree that a solid spacer would be better, and that extra strain will be placed on the system. I also see Eldon's point that there won't be much weight on the front of the tractor.
I can also see why those bolts would come loose, and there would be problems in that area to begin with, as it looks like the piece welded to the rim is not solid, but a piece of flat stock folded into a U.
Click to expand...

To get a solid spacer to work it would have to have a radius and a bevel ground on it to fit right. This size of spacer fits without modification. There are 16 grade 8 bolts carrying the load...probably less than 200# per bolt....and close to zero when turning :D
Yes, those ears on the rim are just u shaped pieces of metal....and if they can hold up to loader work, they will hold up to what I am doing.
 
The pipe spacers might buy some time to try out the concept before spending money on spacer blocks or spacer rings. I would definitely pull those pipe spacers out before doing any loader work, even with the wheels flipped back inside. You might be ahead to invest in a second set of wheels and tires to make the change over go quicker, or use a different tractor for mowing.
 
A good machine shop will make ones to fit in a very short order and I am sure they will be
cheaper than repairs to your tractor. As I said it is yours and we all want you to be safe and
yes I have run an 8 foot mower before
 
You are wrong here! The strength of the system when put together factory comes from 2 things, the center disc fits tight in the rim so the disc caries the weigh and not the bolts. Second, the strength of a bolted joint like that comes largely from the friction of the 2 surfaces being pressed together. You have neither of those. Plus the length of those pipes adds a lot of leverage not there when the pieces are bolted together tight. You don't have 10% of the factory strength and you have added a lot of extra stress to the situation. Trust me as a fabricator, you are looking at trouble soon with your set up.
 
(quoted from post at 08:35:29 08/23/16) The pipe spacers might buy some time to try out the concept before spending money on spacer blocks or spacer rings. I would definitely pull those pipe spacers out before doing any loader work, even with the wheels flipped back inside. You might be ahead to invest in a second set of wheels and tires to make the change over go quicker, or use a different tractor for mowing.
Click to expand...

I would like to find another set of rims for the front...if I put my 18.4 x 30's or 15.5 x 38's on the back I really should have 12.4's on the front...even tho I don't plan on using the 4x4 when mowing. I would do it because I have an old set of 12.4's here that I paid $20 for at auction. I hate to run new tires when brush hogging...prefer older tires with hard rubber. I would have preferred a 2wd tractor, it would have made things a lot easier....would have been even easier if JD would design a tractor (which mates to their MX8 mower) that you didn't have to modify to get maximum performance out of :cry: Maybe I will find someone who will trade me a 2wd for this one over winter...
 
(quoted from post at 08:45:31 08/23/16) You are wrong here! The strength of the system when put together factory comes from 2 things, the center disc fits tight in the rim so the disc caries the weigh and not the bolts. Second, the strength of a bolted joint like that comes largely from the friction of the 2 surfaces being pressed together. You have neither of those. Plus the length of those pipes adds a lot of leverage not there when the pieces are bolted together tight. You don't have 10% of the factory strength and you have added a lot of extra stress to the situation. Trust me as a fabricator, you are looking at trouble soon with your set up.
Click to expand...

If you zoom in on this pic you will see there is about 1/2" clearance between the center and the rim....so the bolts are carrying the load. Maybe that is why some of them failed?? If they did, I'm sure that tractor had a loader on it, and you know how hard a loader is on any tractor. Don't worry, I will keep and eye out for loose bolts and cracks...if they happen I will take the spacers out.

 
(quoted from post at 08:42:55 08/23/16) A good machine shop will make ones to fit in a very short order and I am sure they will be
cheaper than repairs to your tractor. As I said it is yours and we all want you to be safe and
yes I have run an 8 foot mower before
Click to expand...

Yes, Unverferth makes them...just not prepared to spend what they want. If this tractor holds up, I'm sure my little old 5525 will.

 
(quoted from post at 09:42:06 08/23/16) Eldon, just how steep are the hillsides you mowing
Click to expand...

I do some that I have to back up the hill with the mower up and cut coming down...and still spin out sometimes. That would be a situation where 4x4 would be nice. Where an 8' width comes in handy is doing ditchbanks and straddling junk piles, dips, holes and small streams. It also gives a smoother ride, so I can up my speed.

I will have jobs that I will still have to do with the 175 Allis just because the tractor has the hand clutch and greater visibility. The JD is just a needed tax deduction this year and will give me a comfortable tractor to use when it gets hot and dirty. The AC 175 will still be the tractor I set my prices with...
 
That's what I see. The pinching force is gone and the spacers are the pillars all the load will be transferred through. I predict a fairly early failure with more than snapped bolts.
 
With the extra undamped leverage feeding back
through the steering linkage, and I hope I'm
wrong, but there may be broken wrists, thumbs,
and fingers in your future, my friend.

Please be careful!

Scott
 
I'm not worried about the wheels. I do know that with the 108 width to the outside of the wheels he will be needing permits everytime he hauls that on a trailer. As the legal width is 102 inches. It will be just a matter of time before they make the issue on the width. As for the wheels and spacers. It would be stronger with a piece of 1/8 inch plate curled and welded to a ring. Both could be done reasonably cheap at home with a form to roll it on like and old wheel or a couple of old disc blades cut down to the diameter to roll it on. Or a block of wood at the appropriate size.
 
(quoted from post at 12:44:11 08/25/16) I'm not worried about the wheels. I do know that with the 108 width to the outside of the wheels he will be needing permits everytime he hauls that on a trailer. As the legal width is 102 inches. It will be just a matter of time before they make the issue on the width. As for the wheels and spacers. It would be stronger with a piece of 1/8 inch plate curled and welded to a ring. Both could be done reasonably cheap at home with a form to roll it on like and old wheel or a couple of old disc blades cut down to the diameter to roll it on. Or a block of wood at the appropriate size.
Click to expand...

Ag equipment is good up to 10 feet wide around here....
 
(quoted from post at 17:37:28 08/24/16) With the extra undamped leverage feeding back
through the steering linkage, and I hope I'm
wrong, but there may be broken wrists, thumbs,
and fingers in your future, my friend.

Please be careful!

Scott
Click to expand...

No feedback with hydrostatic steering...
 
(quoted from post at 13:05:33 08/24/16) That's what I see. The pinching force is gone and the spacers are the pillars all the load will be transferred through. I predict a fairly early failure with more than snapped bolts.
Click to expand...

Just roaded it two miles and cut 10 fairly rough acres....no loose bolts, cracks or bent wheels....
 
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