not from myself as I happen to like them, but the 2 stroke jimmy gets a lot of ridicule, I'm curious as to what percentage of the diesel engines used from the late thirties till the end of production of the 2 strokes were Detroit's,they sure had their place as I can remember them being used in almost anything needing an engine.
- Thread starter gbs
- Start date
J. Schwiebert
Well-known Member
Remember they were built in some models larger than a normal size 53 & 71 series Detroit like the 567 & 645 engine in locomotives. Who was the brains behind the development of the Detroit diesel?
Dune Country
Well-known Member
Drove dump truck and pony in my 20's when the 8V71's came out.
We had 3 of them, ran circles around the cummins 220's,235's and the turoflows.
Over the years I have drove lot's of them, 6V's, silver 92's quite the engine in it's time.
gallon of oil every 500 mi :roll:
We had 3 of them, ran circles around the cummins 220's,235's and the turoflows.
Over the years I have drove lot's of them, 6V's, silver 92's quite the engine in it's time.
gallon of oil every 500 mi :roll:
The old screaming Demons!!!! LOL Can you imagine the EPA on those old motors. Between the oil leaks and unburnt fuel. They would never be approved for use here in the "NEW" US of A.
Neighbor had a JD 5020 that had the Kinze kit with a 8V71 in it. That thing could PULL but you could here it for miles around. The fellow that owned it is just about totally deaf. He blames a large portion of his hearing issue on that tractor/motor.
Neighbor had a JD 5020 that had the Kinze kit with a 8V71 in it. That thing could PULL but you could here it for miles around. The fellow that owned it is just about totally deaf. He blames a large portion of his hearing issue on that tractor/motor.
Virtually all of the 2 stroke diesels sold in the US were GMC/Detroit/EMD engines.
I too like Detroits.
My Father was the GMC Truck & Coach field engineer in a three state Midwest area for nearly thirty years after returning from the South Pacific where he was on loan by GM to the War Department to help the Navy maintain the tens of thousands of GMC and Electro Motive diesels that helped win WWII.
Dean
I too like Detroits.
My Father was the GMC Truck & Coach field engineer in a three state Midwest area for nearly thirty years after returning from the South Pacific where he was on loan by GM to the War Department to help the Navy maintain the tens of thousands of GMC and Electro Motive diesels that helped win WWII.
Dean
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I learned on the 671 in the Navy. Can still tell when I hear one crank up. My first class told me. If a Detroit isn't leaking oil. Shut it down. There is something wrong.
You sure can hear them coming and it takes them for ever to go by ! All smoke and noise, no grunt. I remember hauling dirt with a Mack it could just easily idle back into a mud hole to dump fill. A few others had GMC with Detroits they had them clear wound up to do what that Mack could easily do.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
British equipment use th electrical system designed and manufactured by Lucas Electric , the Prince of darkness.
I ran GM diesels in the navy from 1968 to 71. In Guantanamo Bay I ran 6-71s in boats as the "engineer". Motor launches had one, landing craft had two or 4 of them depending on the size. All were WW 2 vintage boats/engines except for a couple of new aluminum landing craft that would haul a tank and the new torpedo retrevier. A motor launch was not made for an engine that big, at some point they had been repowered I think, and a 40'er would almost get up and plane, the 50 footers were not quite as fast. After GTMO I was transfered to a small tanker. We had a 6-71 as an emergency generator, and a 1-71 also as an emergency generator, I think for a limited area of the ship, maybe steering gear. The main engines were 278As, V-16 2 cycle engines with the blower on the front of the engine, rumbled along at around 50 to 600 rpm, the ships service generators were 268a, straight 8 and screamed at 1000rpm, all seemed like good engines to me. The 71 series were made to be assembled in many different ways, the cam shaft could be on either side, the head installed to match, rotation could be either way, they could be bolted up to transmissions in double or quad units. Also I have heard of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, v8, v12, and v16 modles. A torpedo retrever we had at GTMO had two v12s in it. The 278a s and the 268a s were made in different nos of cylinders, but I don't know how many.
Never liked a 2stroke Detroit in a truck. Known of several that had to be rebuilt at least once a year. Some every 50-60,000 miles. Would not pull unless running wide open. No lugging power. Seems those could tell if a hill was ahead and start slowing down before getting to it. I refer to them as a smoking, choking, wheezing,geezing air poluting 2-cycle.
used red MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Coon Rapids, MN
In the '60s and '70s (maybe even the '50s) they also must have produced 1000's of them to power refrigerated rail cars. I think they were 2 cylinder, so 2-53s or 2-71s.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The Detroit Diesels do just fine operating pumps, generators, reefers, main propulsion, cranes, loaders, earth movers and crawlers.
If there any problems with them it comes down to some slob not properly servicing them.
My first boat was a floating drydock and we had 3-71s as emergency backup for the nuclear cooling for docked subs.
Later on tugboats we had 2 6-71s for the generators and 1 on the firepump.
The one on the firepump turned pretty fast and it was always scary turning the speed up since we were used to the ones on the generators turning a nice slow 1200 rpm.
Later on tugboats we had 2 6-71s for the generators and 1 on the firepump.
The one on the firepump turned pretty fast and it was always scary turning the speed up since we were used to the ones on the generators turning a nice slow 1200 rpm.
Hay maker2
Member
I think there good engines for pumps and generators, basically anything any thing that can just set there and run wide open all day, every day. I have to agree they are gutless (no lugging power) if not running wide open as they lack displacement.
They are nice conversation piece as they turn good fuel into noise and everyone turns to look at them when the start up or go by. I ran one for years, it was a great day when it went down the road and did not have to hear that noisy, gutless thing anymore.
I drove 4 trucks with a 238,318.350 and 435 Detroit and hate them.repavers too as they leaked oil.only reason they were used in boats,there is no mountains in the ocean.detroit didn't improve much when they went to 4 cycle ,driving 1 now rated 475 /500 hp.500 hp with cruise control on.i owned a mack e6 350 that would outpull the 60 any day on less fuel.sold my mack ended up drivin the very truck my mack outpulled daily.and they leak oil too.mack stayed dry
ditchwitch
Well-known Member
LOL, We put a Detroit in a crane truck. It was a great crane when on the job site but running down
the road it was loud and slower than slow. You could take off from a red light and be in 3rd gear
before you got across the intersection and that ole Detroit screaming doing 20 mph LOL. I will say i
do like the sound of those Detroits coming from a distance
the road it was loud and slower than slow. You could take off from a red light and be in 3rd gear
before you got across the intersection and that ole Detroit screaming doing 20 mph LOL. I will say i
do like the sound of those Detroits coming from a distance
Tx.Ricefields
Member
Nice at tractor shows, but for field work, GUTLESS! We bought a new Oliver 1950 4wd, with a cab. Kept it 2 yrs. and traded for a new 2150. Was sure glad to see it go. Even with a cab, you couldn't sink ear plugs deep enough to shut out the screaming.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
A four valve N series 71 Detroit Diesel can run at 2300rpm for as long as it has fuel air and oil.
Mike(NEOhio)
Well-known Member
- Location
- Newbury, Ohio
I love to hear them, too. The farm across the road from my dad's place had a couple of S 99s. Sounded great when they plowed. No experience with them myself but I did a lot of work on a 2-71 in an AC HD-6 crawler for my FIL. Timing the blower is a real treat. Picture is a GM Electromotive engine/generator at the Ashtabula County Anitque Engine Club grounds.
Hay maker2
Member
I too had a Oliver 1950 4WD. I ran it for almost 20 years. When I first got it I always complained that there was no diff lock as it would be nice to use on the fly. A couple years later I was glad that it did not have a diff lock as there was no lug in that Detroit and if it was in 4WD it pooped even out faster as it could not turn all them wheels. I would rather keep it in 2WD and break traction so I could keep the RPM's up and not have to down shift.
As a power unit in a stationary set up I think there fine if you can handle the noise, other than that there noisey gutless POS.
coonie minnie
Well-known Member
There certainly were a lot of them out there, in many applications.
I still have a 6v71 in an old Fox self propelled we use to open fields for silage harvest. In that application, running at 22oo RPM, it is fine. Loud, but fine.
We also had a 471 on an irrigation pump for about 30 years... or perhaps I should say we had 3. While it was economical to run, it had a really poor safety shut-off system- a must on an irrigation pump, that often times was run for days. The common system on most pumps is a Murphy... which if there is a broken wire, poor connection, etc will immediately stop the engine. Detroit worked the other way... you needed a complete circuit to shut her down, which was slamming the door shut on the blower. So if a wire rattled loose, or a sender failed, it would keep running. Twice we had failures of the oil pressure sender, so the leak in the sender allowed the oil pump to pump the crankcase dry, and of course, the sender failure never shut the engine off.
Remarkably, after it cooled off, the thing would start and run, but that kind of dependability can't be tolerated. A new Deere unit replaced the old 471 in 2001. I wouldn't go back. They were a neat technology in their day, but I'm glad I don't have to lean on it any more.
I still have a 6v71 in an old Fox self propelled we use to open fields for silage harvest. In that application, running at 22oo RPM, it is fine. Loud, but fine.
We also had a 471 on an irrigation pump for about 30 years... or perhaps I should say we had 3. While it was economical to run, it had a really poor safety shut-off system- a must on an irrigation pump, that often times was run for days. The common system on most pumps is a Murphy... which if there is a broken wire, poor connection, etc will immediately stop the engine. Detroit worked the other way... you needed a complete circuit to shut her down, which was slamming the door shut on the blower. So if a wire rattled loose, or a sender failed, it would keep running. Twice we had failures of the oil pressure sender, so the leak in the sender allowed the oil pump to pump the crankcase dry, and of course, the sender failure never shut the engine off.
Remarkably, after it cooled off, the thing would start and run, but that kind of dependability can't be tolerated. A new Deere unit replaced the old 471 in 2001. I wouldn't go back. They were a neat technology in their day, but I'm glad I don't have to lean on it any more.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
The robustness of the GM 2-stroke design is evidenced by how long it remained in production: 1938-1995, almost sixty years. When considering its faults (which are numerous), you probably shouldn't compare it with modern designs. Instead, compare it with other eighty-year-old designs that are still in common use, such as...oh, never mind.
We still use a 12V71 2 valve Jimmy to drive a 300 kw Lima generator to supply power to railroad passenger cars. It's installed in a WWII era troop sleeper car. Even with a huge muffler and sound insulation, that darned thing is LOUD!
Causes us very few problems, just runs at 1800 rpm for hours on end. Yeah, it leaks some. . . . .
Causes us very few problems, just runs at 1800 rpm for hours on end. Yeah, it leaks some. . . . .
I forgot to mention in my post below that when I was at Engineman School at Great Lakes while in the Navy one of the instructors told of being at GM for instruction and one of the stories told was of GM running a couple of 6-71 in high speed ocean racers and they ran them upt 3500 rpm.
J. Schwiebert
Well-known Member
Nobody has mentioned the 51 series, yes the version that had no valves. When I worked in West Virginia a man wanted to sell me one. I think they also made a very few 2 cylinder version of the 51 series.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
The Detroit is breathing better than the four stroke with it's flat torque curve . A four stroke rapidly runs out of pulling power at higher revs as the volumetric efficiency drops and the cylinders can not be fully emptied and filled.
A four stoke has to be lugged down before it will make it's rated torque . The Detroit pulls strong from idle to past redline .
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Father In law the master engine builder at his shop and his nephew the crane operators had the same situation .
Turns out the govenor was dialed down to only 1800rpm . It was a different truck when she could be reved to 2300rpm before shifting. Took care of that too wide of gap between gears. Got the road speed up as well. 63 or so mph instead of 50mph.
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
I have heard that military watercraft had the usual throttle setting up to "Full" . Then way out past that was a notch identified as Flank or Combat that pretty much held the fuel rack wide open.
caterpillar guy
Well-known Member
I have driven those hill sniffers. If you put a piece of cardboard over the headlights they do much better.
A guy in KS once told me it was like this. Detroit was the most forgiving and the least durable. The Cat was the most durable and the least forgiving.
A guy in KS once told me it was like this. Detroit was the most forgiving and the least durable. The Cat was the most durable and the least forgiving.
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