vehicle extended warranty

What are your opinions on a vehicle extended warranty. I just bought a new F150 and didn't buy the extended warranty. I am sure they will still try and sell it to me.

They are making money on it or they wouldn't offer it. If you take reasonably good care of the vehicle the odds are it would be a waste of money. If I thought I was going to need it I would buy a different brand of vehicle. My wife researches every purchase online and through consumer report, and we base our decision on that.

I think statistically you are better off not buying it.

i have bought many a new vehicle and have never bought extended warranty. i just tell them u guys got less confidence in a new vehicle than i do. i have owned my 06 duramax for 10 years now and it has like 325,000 k on it and not a bit of trouble. on my 4th set of tires now, only reg services and it keeps on running.
plus i pull a 34 ft goose neck hauling tractors from all over.

That was my thought also, they tell you how great it is, then they want to sell you a warranty in case it breaks.

Since they wouldn't fix my F 150 under the factory warranty why should I pay money for another warranty for them to not fix it? According to my dealer they all leak in the back window and only run on 7 cylinders and Ford agrees. To be a bit more serious they make money on them and on some products the dealer gets a commission as high as 40%, meaning 40 cents of every dollar you paid for the warranty gets paid to the dealer

I sold new farm equipment and the extended warranties are a real good profit center for the dealership and OEM. About 30% stays right at the dealership when you buy the extended warranty. That is why they push them so hard. Many times they make much more on the extended warranty and finance fees than they do on the actual sale.

So the only time I ever consider an extended warranty is if it is a costly vehicle to repair. An example would be a diesel pickup truck. Even then I look real hard at the cost your paying up front for the warranty that you may not ever use. Also read the fine print on the extended warranty. Most people assume that the extended warranty is just like the OEM warranty you get with the new vehicle. Most extended warranties are NOT even close to what the OEM warranty was.

An example: A fellow I know has a Dodge 1/2 ton pickup. He bought the truck with low miles, used. He bought the extended warranty that Chrysler offered. A year goes by and his truck starts to run rough and knock. He had it towed to the dealership and they find that the motor bent two push rods. I guess that is not uncommon on his model of engine. The warranty would only pay for the two that bent. Even thought these where on two different cylinders the warranty would not even pay for the mates of the bents ones to be replaced. Do not even think about the ones on the other head. To have them all replaced parts and labor was over $750. He paid $4000 for the top end extended warranty too. His extended warranty was a sucker bet on his truck.

I have bought 2 vehicles with extended warranties that have paid off.

Vern

I look at them as more of an insurance policy for repairs. You may or may not need it. Some people use them a lot and they pay off, others buy them and really never need them. If you happen to have a major powertrain problem there is a good chance the contract will pay for itself in one repair.

With that said the important part is reading the fine print on whats covered or not. What a sales person or finance person tells you may not reflect what the policy actually covers. They honestly may not know, which is already an alarm, but there is a good chance they are lying to you. There is a big profit in these things and I have heard of people spending $3500-4500 for them.

It's just like playing the lottery. A few win and a LOT lose.

Plus, the company administering the "warrantee" skims off a good percentage of the "winnings".

Good luck with THAT!

Statistically you will never use it. Most major malfunctions that happen with a new vehicle occur within the first 8,000 miles and are covered under the OEM warranty. Then long after even the extended warranty has expired. So it's a racket for the dealer and the company that carries the warranty. There have been several investigative reports on them. Most only cover the engine and drive train too. The most durable parts of the vehicle. Few if any cover what's normally expensive repairs at say 150K or so like electrical issues. Some even have deductibles. I was in a dealership a couple of years ago with my son looking to buy a car. A lady picking up her "covered under extended warranty" vehicle had to pay almost the full repair because of that. She screamed at the manager that her and her husband had been buying new cars from them for years and the she was going to buy a different brand "tomorrow"!

Rick

Luck of the draw I guess. I bought two waste of money. My brother bought two paid off for him.

Auto companies count on you trading the truck/car before you ever need the extended warranty. I never buy extra warranty coverage , I think it is a mugs game. And I agree with what JD Seller said . Dealers make more selling you stuff after the sale of the new car/truck than they do on the original sale . Warranty , undercoating , finacing , gap insurance , the list goes on . Sold to you for your protection of your investment , but in truth , you would be better to just buy the car/truck , and trade more often.

My wife does the same thing. We have a Chrysler Town and country van. The extended warranty has paid off and then paid us back. The thing love's to chew up rack and pinions. We actually have a good one in it now and has lasted about 30 k. We are all done with the old dead goat brand cars here,not sure what is next but are sure what it won't be.

The last two new vehicles I bought I'm glad I got five year extended and same with washing machines. Pay now or pay more later.

My daughter bought an extended warranty when she purchased a used Jeep Patriot last year. I don't know what she paid for the warranty but she has used it twice so far. I don't know what the first problem was but the latest was a water pump and having the computer reflashed to correct a transmission problem. Would of been $600 in repair but with the warranty it only cost her $17.

She purchased through a chain of dealerships with multiple lots in the area. She bought her Jeep from the Chevrolet/GMC lot and they told her to take it to the Chrysler/Jeep lot for repairs. Once there the associate told her the extended warranty had expired and repairs would cost $600. Looking at the info on the computer it appeared to me the factory warranty had expired and nothing was showing for an extended warranty. As she had lost the warranty paperwork in a recent move, we went to the lot where she purchased the vehicle and got a copy of the warranty. At that point they found it in the computer system and her cost was $17.

As typical, after market things a dealer pushes so hard are things that yield a good profit WELL DUH. Think about it, if it wasn't profitable to sell the warranty they probably wouldn't be doing it. That means if you compute the premiums such produces MORE money then paid out by claims YOU DONT SAY LOL Soooooooo instead of paying them pay yourself and save that money back for repairs and YOU can come out ahead. Why not make the profit yourself instead of giving it to the dealer??

HOWEVER the average Billy Bob and Bubba out there lack the discipline or income to save or hold back for rainy days and repairs so a break down can bust their beer budget, so for some, extended warranties may be a good thing.

On radio Dave Ramsey is always joking how the average dude has like a $400 per month car payment so he can drive a fancy rig to impress someone. Then he points out how a young guy could take that $400 per month and invest it wisely and safely and in like 30 years have over a million dollars and then screams I HOPE YOU LIKE YOUR FREAKING CAR.

Still its your money and your choice NOT ours, do as you please.

John T

I have never bought one until the last car, and I haven't been in tight financial straits since age 30. I got hit really hard by my Ford 6.0, four months out of warrantee, and that could have used up all that I have saved over the years by not paying to extend warrantees. I took the extended warrantee on the most recently purchased car, a Toyota Highlander, simply because of the extensive electronics.

I do not buy extended warranties.

Dean

I usually do not get them. Did get one on the 99 Plymouth van and again on the wife's 2016 Honda HRV because Her last car 2010 Nissan Cube had a tranny go bad at 60,000 no extended warranty bought, but Nissan had trouble with these and they paid for it all. On the 99 van and on my daughter's Hundai we got money back on them once car was sold.

Bought 2 new fords in 2008. A mustang my wife ordered to her fancy and a F-150 Super crew. Found out that I could buy the warranty online for $1200 verses the $2100 the dealer offered per vehicle. He made me a better deal than the online price after I pointed that out. You can do a google search as there is even a place that shows what the dealer cost per warranty is.

I did not use either warranty so it was wasted money. As a matter of fact Ford did not want to warranty much of anything even when it was under factory warranty. The stuff I did have fixed got fudged up by the dealers I took it to. Eventually it was easier for me to fix it myself, that way it was done right and I was not as mad.

Your truck should be fine unless you abuse it or or drive an excessive amount per year.

You'll be fine without it, on the other hand an extended warranty on a Fiat/Dodge/Jeep product is probably the only smart thing you could in that purchase.

When my son was selling Chryslers he found me a 2003 Town and Country van with 15K in 2004. We bought the warranty and I am glad I did. I used the van till it was killed by a big buck a coupla years ago with over 250K. During the warranty period they replaced the PCM (brain), air cond compressor and rack and pinion steering assembly. I know those 3 items would have cost a lot more to fix than the warranty cost.

I keep hearing Dave Ramsey talk about earning 10% as a basis for calculating return on investments in the stock market - yet he never tells anyone what he's invested in. I've be in my current 401k plan for 14 years with well over 200K invested, average return has been around 2% - and that's good compared to some people.

They are a waste of money.....25 years ago we bought them a couple of times and never once used them..We quit them around 1995 as we trade pretty often....Most dealers around here don't push them anymore..

The extended warranty paid off for me on my 99 Ford Expedition and again on my 2005 Ford Expedition, both would have been expensive repairs, both were bought used. I bought the extended warranty on my used 2004 Toyota Tundra and never had to use it. I am just getting ready to trade the Tundra in on another used one and haven't decided about the warranty.

A dealer told me go through the first warranty if the car is good and trouble free you don't need an extended warranty . However if you're vehicle has trouble get the extended. Also check on the model your buying if it's got a bad reputation might be good to get one.

Catch 22. I have done both ways. The most notable time was when I bought a program car (1990 Cougar). Nice car with near perfect appearance and performance for a good price. At the signing of the papers I got the usual hype about this and that, and finally agreed to $900 worth of what I figured was wasted money. It had some factory warranty left, but not much, and the extended warranty went for an additional 60,000 miles, $50 deductible per incident.

Right after the factory warranty went, the A/C quit, and both door glass motors gave out (???).

I took it in, they combined the call and charged me $50 for a little over $1800 worth of work on the car. It was the only time I have used ANY warranty in my 50 plus years of owning cars and trucks. Yep, been lucky I guess.

I did buy a 14 Durango, got the extended warranty on it. Too much learning curve to work on that thing.

Never bought a vehical with low enough miles to be able to get one. Now if I was going to buy a new vehical with all this eloctrinic crap on it then yes I would buy all the warenty I could get. The 2 vehicals I bought in the last year are a 2001 and a 2003 and I expect them to last me the rest of my life and in about 2 months I will be 73 and I am no mechanic and cannot do the work myself. Now if I was young and a mechanic then I might not buy it but when I plan on driving a vehical that could be 20 years old and still driving it and not able to do the work I probably would get it.. So big thing is what can you do to keep it going or what do you have to hire done? Have to take the 2003 truck back into shop tomorrow to get the parking brake installed. Turns out they had put in all new componets EXCEPT the parking brake cable and when went to get a new one put in found out they had gotten rid of the entire parking brake parts that you could not see without pulling a rotor off. Now a lot of the ones that do not think a warenty is worth it probably could do that brake job in their sleep then there are others like me that even tho it should be a simple repair cannot do it so that is a big factor on if it will pay out. You do work yourself you can go to where ever parts are cheapest but go to shop and they get the parts from not the cheapest place but you pay up their markup plus their labor so what you are capable of could very well be deciding factor as well as how long you plan to own the vehical.

DL. I work at a used car dealership. We have more people trying to trade in late mod ford pickups than anything else. boss is a ford pick man and he is now driving a late model Avalanche. I would seriously think about it. I know there are going to be people reply to this saying they got hundreds of thousand of miles on their ford pickup, but that said there are just too many guys and gals trying to get rid of them now.

From consumers report:

Median out-of-pocket savings on repairs covered by extended warranties for all brands was $837. Based on a $1,214 average initial cost, that works out to a net [b:2a2bb47e75]loss [/b:2a2bb47e75]of more than $375.

As JohnT stated that's great for Bubba who somehow managed to buy a new vehicle but can't keep some money set aside but in the long run it's expensive to buy something just so you don't have to give up beer for a month or so.

Yea there are a few vehicles out there that I would buy the extended warranty for just because of the reputation of the vehicle but I can avoid that by getting something else similar from another manufacturer. I keep thinking that you can look up vehicles online to see what the reliability factor is so why on earth would you buy something that has a questionable reputation? Just so you can look cool? Yea I know, I have family members, by marriage, who are currently driving some of those questionable vehicles. See them one time and the brag on it and see them again and they whine because it broke down. Ask them why they bought it and you get something along the line of "it's so cool looking".

Rick

Ive got a decent return with an American Funds Mutual Fund, one of their more Conservative less risk funds, HOWEVER at our age we need to get out of the risk business all together but that's only like 2 to 3% grrrrrrrrrrrrrr A few years back we locked in some at 5% for five years but that's over now.

The stuff Dave Ramsey preaches is how I lived my life yearsssssssssssss before I ever heard of him, his advice is what I already practiced.

John T

An extended warranty is not really a warranty as such. It is an insurance policy.

The real fact is that the vast majority of new vehicles that are sold will never even return to the selling dealer for any reason. That includes maintenance, warranty repairs, inspections, or whatever.

The gamble is the cost of the warranty versus the cost of a major repair. If a transmission goes out after the factory warranty expires but the extended is still in place, it will pay for itself.

There are some other factors to consider. How mechanically inclined are you? Are you able to take care of maintenance and small repairs? If so, an extended warranty may not be beneficial to you.

But, with today's shop labor rates going past the $100/hour rate, even small repairs can get expensive quickly. Modern high tech electronic systems can get really expensive as well. As such, an extended might be worth considering.

That's what we have - American funds with groupings by projected retirement age. I don't think it matters if you are in aggressive or conservative investments - none of them are paying much. I have a feeling you are a bit closer to retirement than me. My youngest just turned 5 - so I'll be working at least a few years after he gets done with college or Vo Tech.

The only thing that's made my 401K profitable is the 50% match my employer puts in - if it wasn't for that I'd be better off buying silver and burying it in cans in my back yard.

(quoted from post at 07:20:24 07/06/16) An extended warranty is not really a warranty as such. It is an insurance policy.

The real fact is that the vast majority of new vehicles that are sold will never even return to the selling dealer for any reason. That includes maintenance, warranty repairs, inspections, or whatever.

The gamble is the cost of the warranty versus the cost of a major repair. If a transmission goes out after the factory warranty expires but the extended is still in place, it will pay for itself.

There are some other factors to consider. How mechanically inclined are you? Are you able to take care of maintenance and small repairs? If so, an extended warranty may not be beneficial to you.

But, with today's shop labor rates going past the $100/hour rate, even small repairs can get expensive quickly. Modern high tech electronic systems can get really expensive as well. As such, an extended might be worth considering.

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Jim in part I'd agree with you but most modern cars and trucks are going over 200K before a tranny or engine failure. From what I can find most cover up to 150,000 miles, a lot only cover the engine and drivetrain. The most often used extended warranties are BMW, Mercedes, Chrysler and Dodge in that order. That tells me not to buy any of those vehicles. Problem solved! Don't matter how "cute" it is or how bad I want that Hemi.

Rick

$837? Was that for spark plugs? I just looked at a 2006 F250 SD with a v10 engine and 125K miles. The guy had every oil change done at the Ford dealership (first mistake is bringing anything to Dick Edwards Ford) - about every 3rd one was for $500 or more - the techs just kept finding things that needed done when it went on the lift.

Agreed. I thought I had to have a Jeep - I got over that after owning one for a year. Back to the reliable Ford Taurus.

What happened to your 99 Expedition? I'm assuming your 2005 had issues with the cam phasers?

Don't count on it being your last car my dad figured the same way he figured he bought his last car when he was in his 70's but his last car he bought was at 89 and he drove till he was 97 no accidents . He was just driving to church and grocery store.
The only trouble he had was on his last drivers renewal instead of sending it in he went to the examining station and I think they thought he wasn't able . He was pretty shaken over going to lose his license next week I made him drive us up and I made sure they knew he drove a few quiet words with the examiner and he had his license with no restrictions not even glasses. I just explained to them what he was doing and that for what he was doing it was ok . Thankfully they took my word .

Having been a claims adjuster in the business for twelve years, I'd like to comment that what are commonly referred to as extended warranties are actually service contracts.

A warranty replaces parts that are found to be defective. A service contract is a contract to replace certain parts as they fail from normal use within a specified length of time or during a stated number of miles. Then it gets complicated. Some vehicles are prone to failure of particular parts, etc., and that is all factored into the price of the contract. An excellent example was the middle to late '90's Dodge and Plymouth Neons. The only thing that ever went wrong with them was you could bet money that at approximately 45,000 miles, and after they were just out of factory warranty, the head gasket would begin to leak. Once the original head gasket was replaced, they'd run forever without anything else failing except for wear items.

The whole schtick is too complicated to expound on here, but the bottom line is, if you buy a vehicle with a trend to a particular failure, a service contract makes sense. It's a decision you have to make yourself. I, myself, had one on a Pontiac minivan, and by the time the contract expired I was $300 ahead on it, claims versus the cost of the contract. Basically, it's one big crapshoot.

And I could write a book on the scams dealers tried to pull on us adjusters. Some were actually funny. Some repair shop would try to pull a scam of some sort not realizing we adjusters had seen the same thing tried a dozen times before. I once caught a Chevy dealer in Mississippi putting a used salvage yard engine in a pickup after I'd authorized a new Goodwrench engine, etc. A Dodge dealer trying to claim an entire engine replacement on a B200 van when the only problem was a failed fuel injector. That was all everyday stuff. They didn't realize we adjuster could spot a phony claim instantly, 'cause we'd seen it all before. I'd best not get started on the whole bit.

I've bought one vehicle with it and now I don't. It depends upon your circumstances, back in 96 I had just changed jobs due to layoff and the new job included a lot of travel. I wanted the wife's car to be dependable. So I bought the warranty in case of issues when I was out of town, and to avoid large expenses until I got some time on the new job. The vehicle was a dependable one but had a couple issues in the extended warranty period, so I guess I maybe broke even dollar-wise, but the peace of mind was worth something to me. Now I don't buy the the extended warranty, I'm home all the time to deal with those kind of issues and much better off financially in case of big repair expenses. This year we purchased a new car but kept the old one (with 200k they wouldn't give me anything for it anyway, and its still a good reliable car) so its a spare in case we have one of the others that needs service.

In my experience if you can work on your own stuff, having a good spare vehicle is probably better insurance than the warranty because license and insurance is usually cheap on it, and it gets you time to deal with the issues without being down a critical vehicle.

(quoted from post at 09:14:09 07/06/16) Having been a claims adjuster in the business for twelve years, I'd like to comment that what are commonly referred to as extended warranties are actually service contracts.

A warranty replaces parts that are found to be defective. A service contract is a contract to replace certain parts as they fail from normal use within a specified length of time or during a stated number of miles. Then it gets complicated. Some vehicles are prone to failure of particular parts, etc., and that is all factored into the price of the contract. An excellent example was the middle to late '90's Dodge and Plymouth Neons. The only thing that ever went wrong with them was you could bet money that at approximately 45,000 miles, and after they were just out of factory warranty, the head gasket would begin to leak. Once the original head gasket was replaced, they'd run forever without anything else failing except for wear items.

The whole schtick is too complicated to expound on here, but the bottom line is, if you buy a vehicle with a trend to a particular failure, a service contract makes sense. It's a decision you have to make yourself. I, myself, had one on a Pontiac minivan, and by the time the contract expired I was $300 ahead on it, claims versus the cost of the contract. Basically, it's one big crapshoot.

And I could write a book on the scams dealers tried to pull on us adjusters. Some were actually funny. Some repair shop would try to pull a scam of some sort not realizing we adjusters had seen the same thing tried a dozen times before. I once caught a Chevy dealer in Mississippi putting a used salvage yard engine in a pickup after I'd authorized a new Goodwrench engine, etc. A Dodge dealer trying to claim an entire engine replacement on a B200 van when the only problem was a failed fuel injector. That was all everyday stuff. They didn't realize we adjuster could spot a phony claim instantly, 'cause we'd seen it all before. I'd best not get started on the whole bit.

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I suppose it's like with adjusting insurance. Lot of folks try to beat the insurance company without realizing that the adjuster has seen most of it before. Like claiming a broken TV or computer is due to lightning damage when it's pretty east to tell it isn't. Or claiming that an item stolen or damaged is newer than it really is. Saw that a lot. Then other folks as honest as can be. That's why a lot of people have trouble with an adjuster, they, the adjuster, become jaded and start thinking everyone is out to rip off the company. Sad part is that a lot of times the people get away with it because it's cheaper to just pay the claim than it is to get into a courtroom should the insured try to sue or to press for prosecution for fraud. That makes insurance more expensive for the rest of us. Saw a few where the insured deliberately wrecked a vehicle to try to get out from under payments. Kinda funny to watch them squirm when you tell them the vehicle isn't totaled and it's going to be repaired. Did a few that were within just a few bucks of being totaled. But come on, in broad daylight, dry pavement, you hit a concrete light pole footing in an empty parking lot? Before cell phones became a problem? Because the sun got in your eyes? I heard that same story twice in 6 months. The one I think was a case of distracted driving. Young lady was meeting her boyfriend in another town to attend a movie. I think she was applying makeup while moving through the parking lot. The damage wasn't that bad. The other the guy really smashed up his F150 and hit the concrete dead center. About 300 short of a total.

Rick

Had one taurus and it was the most unrealiable of any except for a Geo Tracker and that Taurus was a very uncomfortable car to drive. Bougt it when I needed a car but could not stand to drive it and Wife took it over and drove for several years, just driving to work it did decent but on my work a rual newspaper route that tranny every time it would get warm it would dump all the fluid. I am only driving Chrysler products now because they are the only company that makes something in what I want. 2 Dakota trucks and first one was totalled last fall when someone could not slow down for a stop sign. Caba are about same size as the Chevy & GMC full size trucks I had before. But they were 1970 & 74 models. The Dakotas used same tires as those GMC products, neither Ford or GMC now makes a truck in that size. Father in law had a couple of Windstars and they were very uncomfortable to drive as well as his around a 06 Buick. Last comfortable Ford product was a 63. If I need something I do not even look at a Ford product any more and very seldom a GMC product but I did drive 3 different Olds Ciera cars on that paper rpute.

You DID say "new", not "new to you" so forget the extended. You will get plenty of chances when the factory one is about to expire to buy them. Just as good a deal as buying it now pricewise but by then you will have a feel as to whether the now "used" Ford will be a good fit for extended warr. heck, you may decide to trade it off by then. If so , the original extended was a complete waste of money. You can buy them anytime.

Lets say a service contract is 2K, The first time you use it you are 2K into it plus the deductible. That's if its a covered part

You present you truck to me and state you have a warranty of some sort.

1) All the time I spend talking to the warranty folks you pay for it at my shop labor rate (You brought it not me).
2) You pay diagnostic time up front plus tear down time.
3) Its my shop I fix it my way not there way you pay what they want pay I am responsible for the repair. They Don't dictate how I do my job how much labor/time I can charge are what part I uses are the price of it and you don't either.
4) I am not going to lie to them are you.

Did I mention I dread doing this type of work its always a P.I.T.A.
Its a slow process and not profitable all in said and done.

I have done 25 are so of these deals maybe 2 went better than expected. I had 2 cars the same make model engine etc back to back with the same extended warranty contract from the same co. both had the same problem the water pump went out and broke the cam belt. The first they paid for everything
to get it back up and runing the second they fought it tooth and nail. All they paid for was a water pump and labor to replace the pump, they claimed the cam belt was a maintenance item even tho it was no were close to the recommended replacement interval.

The second good'N I had replaced all the bearings in the differential call the customer up and told him it was ready. His wife was said he has a extended warranty. They dropped off the paper work I called (remember I don't lie fer'ya) and told them I had already repaired it when they remembered they had a warranty contract. They paid every penny less the deductible it supersized me they had there out but did not use it.

One that went bad my bad I should have lied...

A no crank call I jump in the tow truck and go to get it but stupid me bang on the starter with a hammer and it fires up. They drive it back to the shop then the warranty issue comes up. I call and have all my ducks in a row estimate and all with a road service charge. They inform me they do not pay road service they only pay if I tow it. I explain I sent a tow truck out it cost the same he can write it up as a tow THEN the chit hits the fan he calls me a lair.

I call the customer and ask them were do they want it towed to I refuse to deal with there warranty co. They ask were I would recommend I said the DEALER... I got my tow money they were not gonna get out that EZ...

I no longer tote a hammer in the tow truck :lol:

I am not for a service contract I signed up to sale'em the first one I wrote up as a test I used my name and phone number. They called me 7 days a week at all times. I am not going to put out customer info so they can worry the ell out of them. The only reason I signed up was because every now and again a customer informs me they brought a service contract. I thought what the ell I may as well benefit on their stupidity. Its not worth it I as soon be neutral with no dog in the fight.

I have never had a first time customer with a warranty contract turn out to be a A plus customer. I don't need filler work I don't need warranty contract work as a filler.

Not sure they are worth it. I did buy one on a new '89 Ford Club Wagon and used it on the A/C that kept having one failure or another. In reality I broke even on it, the cost of repairs equaled the cost of the warranty. Have never had any extended warranty on new vehicles since and never needed it.

(quoted from post at 15:51:41 07/06/16) $837? Was that for spark plugs? I just looked at a 2006 F250 SD with a v10 engine and 125K miles. The guy had every oil change done at the Ford dealership (first mistake is bringing anything to Dick Edwards Ford) - about every 3rd one was for $500 or more - the techs just kept finding things that needed done when it went on the lift.

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A coworker was quoted $395 to change the 4 plugs in his Subaru by the dealer and $425 by an independent. There are several nice vids on YouTube about how to do it, that's what he's going to do.