Guys this just went down and almost turned into a boxing match!!! A guy hired some people or crew to do a job on a building (lets say tractor shed). They charge buy the hour, not to uncommon in this area. Well as he watched them every 30 seconds the workers were on the cell phone with there wife or whoever or texting for however long and work ceased. He started to add it up and you get it, pay for hour and getting 30 min of work!!! He went right to boss and told him straight up " your crew is going to be off the cell phones when working or your going down the road" OH MAN THAT WAS ALI-FORMAN 1974!!!! Now I can see both sides of it to a point but my real issue is how should this be handled??? What is ethical? I was not involved only as a spectator and not sure as to the outcome as it was late in the day and people went home mad!! I too have dealt with this and let it slide but can see the issue. SO YOU GUYS ARE THE JURY ON THIS. Amish crew maybe lol!!!
- Thread starter JOCCO
- Start date
There was an Amish crew that did the roof on my neighbor's house. They came in their horse and buggies and would not work with power tools. They had more complex cell phones that I have ever seen. I might add that the contractor who was working alone on the other side of the building alone got as much work done with an air nailer as 3 Amish with hammers and nails in one day.
RobCons
Well-known Member
- Location
- Central Alabama
Pay what is owed for the day and send them on down the road. If your on the clock, hourly or set fee, you need to put in a full days work.
My father in law had that issue a couple of years before he passed when he had a new cabin built on his lake property.
He let it slide. Too nice of a guy who hated confrontations. Had it been me I would have had a talk with the contractor/foreman. Those workers would not be allowed to do that in another job. Why should they do that on a construction site? If management or the foreman wouldn't put a stop to it I'd send em down the road after one more day. That last day would be spent documenting the wasted time so that if the contractor decided to sue I'd have covered myself.
Rick
He let it slide. Too nice of a guy who hated confrontations. Had it been me I would have had a talk with the contractor/foreman. Those workers would not be allowed to do that in another job. Why should they do that on a construction site? If management or the foreman wouldn't put a stop to it I'd send em down the road after one more day. That last day would be spent documenting the wasted time so that if the contractor decided to sue I'd have covered myself.
Rick
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
They were there to work. Not talk on the phone. They should have their pay docked for talking. I use to work with high voltage. When cell phones came out. We had to leave them in the truck before we could go on the job site.Anyone caught with a phone on the job. Was fired on the spot.
Moonlite37
Well-known Member
If it is a contract job it should not be an issue except to the contractor's foreman.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
If they worked for me they would leave their cell phones in their vehicles.
Use them on break or lunch time.
If they don't like it I will find someone else.
Use them on break or lunch time.
If they don't like it I will find someone else.
Reminds me of a story Dad used to tell about a neighbor back in the days when farmers hired men to shock and thrash grain. The old man watched the crew and decided that the men were taking too many smoke breaks and taking too long to roll their cigarettes.
The old man trained one of his girls to roll cigarettes and go to the field at set times and roll cigarettes to give to the men on their breaks, so he could get more work out of the men. Maybe the guy needs to collect all of the cell phones and have someone just take messages while the men work?
Personally, I would pay them by the job or send them down the road.
The old man trained one of his girls to roll cigarettes and go to the field at set times and roll cigarettes to give to the men on their breaks, so he could get more work out of the men. Maybe the guy needs to collect all of the cell phones and have someone just take messages while the men work?
Personally, I would pay them by the job or send them down the road.
You need to set the rules prior to commencing work or fix it once it starts. I'd try being diplomatic about it at first, but if they refused they'd be down the road.
I am not a fan of the way phones are going. People give their young kids phones with internet access and then wonder why the kids are viewing porn at 10 years old or how they know real shady people. Duh. And those that can't look up from the stupid phone when you talk to them, adults too? Kind of makes me wish for that EMP they warn us about.
wilson ind
Well-known Member
hAD A DIRT CONTRACTOR PUT IN FOUNDATION. oNE MAN AND HE WAS GOOD. aT END OF JOB HAD A LIST OF HOURLY WORK (sorry did not see cap lock) showing time spent. I said thats not necessary, you did great. He remarked all cell phone time of calls was deducted,he got a very good referral from me.
That's the down side to paying buy the hour.I agree with sending them down the road. It's best to pay by the job,them it doesn't matter how many breaks they take,that's their bosses problem.it's actually more fair to both parties to do it by the job.if the boss doesn't like that,is another reason to let them go.this is from someone who does this work,by the job.
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
You can ALWAYS make that excuse, though. Who are you to say what's "important" and what isn't? The boss? Hmm, the unions and court system would care to disagree.
My coworkers are constantly being called and texted by their families over some contrived crisis. Most of the time it's stuff that any halfwit could resolve for themselves, too.
As a matter of safety we do not allow cell phones on the jobsite except for the job site superintendent - and most of them toss the phone in the cab of truck and check it when its convenient for them to return calls. If I was paying someone by the hour (contract employee or statutory employee) I am their boss. Don't like it get out. Otherwise they need to set a contract amount and let them eat the cost of letting their employees waste time.
My granddad was a construction contractor, and dad said he wouldn't hire anyone who smoked (spent half the time rolling smokes) or who wore only a belt without suspenders (spent half the time hiking up their pants). Loggers have to wear suspenders, because they have to have loose pants that will come off if they get tangled up in rigging or whatever.
As far as the problem at hand, I'd have fired the lot of them and found someone else, with the ground rules firmly agreed to in advance.
As far as the problem at hand, I'd have fired the lot of them and found someone else, with the ground rules firmly agreed to in advance.
dr sportster
Well-known Member
I would not pay for cell phone time. When specifying T&M always get a " not to exceed" number. If the foreman disagrees ,he is not doing his job and would risk me firing them all. What is ethical is to not steal time from your employer and customers.
I have that same issue with direct employees. I reprimanded and put on probation a guy who was constantly on his phone or in the parking lot smoking cigarettes AND on his cell phone. He got a little better for the month, then slipped back into his old ways. Was ready to fire him 2 wks ago when he quit. He said he "wanted to leave on good terms" so he could come back if the new job doesn't work out. I didn't bother to reply as that will NEVER HAPPEN.
It's crazy how people are addicted to their phones. Interesting that a log of older people TALK on their phones, younger ones TEXT. In either case, it's rude, distracting and a danger to society.
I'm getting ready to build a new house in a year or so and will be acting as the GC. I plan to write in the contracts that cell phone use is not allowed on the jobsite except during breaks/lunch in the name of safety. We'll see how many subs will agree to that. :wink:
It's crazy how people are addicted to their phones. Interesting that a log of older people TALK on their phones, younger ones TEXT. In either case, it's rude, distracting and a danger to society.
I'm getting ready to build a new house in a year or so and will be acting as the GC. I plan to write in the contracts that cell phone use is not allowed on the jobsite except during breaks/lunch in the name of safety. We'll see how many subs will agree to that. :wink:
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
You have to ask???
Start like this: an hour's work for an hour's pay. That means working. Not talking or texting on a cell phone.
Whenever you are dealing with people, there have to be some concessions made. Breaks for bathroom, putting band aids on minor cuts, and the like. On the other hand, the allowances you make will always be abused by one or more employees. Like going to the bathroom twice an hour.
Personally, I would simply not allow cell phones on the job. Workers are there to WORK, not to talk on the phone. The same goes for the other forms of entertainment like radios. If they want to have a radio playing at a reasonable level, OK, but NOT fussing with it every few minutes.
Start like this: an hour's work for an hour's pay. That means working. Not talking or texting on a cell phone.
Whenever you are dealing with people, there have to be some concessions made. Breaks for bathroom, putting band aids on minor cuts, and the like. On the other hand, the allowances you make will always be abused by one or more employees. Like going to the bathroom twice an hour.
Personally, I would simply not allow cell phones on the job. Workers are there to WORK, not to talk on the phone. The same goes for the other forms of entertainment like radios. If they want to have a radio playing at a reasonable level, OK, but NOT fussing with it every few minutes.
farmallstrong
Member
I am a self employed master plumber. I do not give my cell phone number to anyone. My reason is if I'm working at your house how do I charge you by the hour if I'm on the phone. If you have a emergency call my office and they will call me. I check my phone between jobs and call in. I have ------ off a lot of people because I won't give them my number. This is my way of controlling things. Plus the phone always rings when I can't answer it.
I'm on the pay for an hour work side of this one. Several years ago we had a general contractor that was building our house, and the agreement was that we paid him hourly for his crew (3 including him and his two guys), he made 10% on any materials he purchased, and any other contractors he hired. One day my wife paid a visit to the house where they were supposed to be working, and one of the main supplier of materials had brought the entire crew beer, and everyone was sitting around drinking. My wife commented to the general contractor that he needed to make note that everyone there was off the clock for the remainder of the day since no work was being done. She said he did not seem to be too happy but made no argument. I don't believe the materials supplier brought beer down again to the job site - at least not to my knowledge.
formenwhogrow
Member
The Amish guy who ran the crew that did our barn roof was on his Iphone 6 more than most teenagers. Most construction companies around here have a policy of no phones on the jobsite. All phones must be kept in their vehicle until the end of the day. Pretty simple really. it's a safety issue as much as anything. Phones are a distraction and distractions cause accidents.
My thinking was if the wife was expecting a baby, kid has to call on his way home for a ride of some sort, somebody in surgery. Pretty much anything that probably will require them to leave work for the day. I agree that everyone's list of important is different, because if your kids are the biggest thing in your life then their activities are important, if your business is the most important thing then you don't care about their kids.
I hear ya, but would have made life really tough considering we were well along with the house, and we would have had to start over with a crew somehow. I think both the supplier and the general contractor knew they messed up, but probably did not believe one of us would show up, and glad she handled it like she did, and did not just toss then whole crew off the property. We lived approx. 35 miles away, I was usually working, so chances of her showing up on the job site was slim. Had she not shown up unannounced, I am fairly certain we would have paid for having 3 sitting around drinking beer. Hope I did not hijack this thread, but it reminded me of the incident.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
If I am paying a crew to work. They had better be working,not on the phone. If it it is a true emergency I can understand.But not because little
Johnny can't make up his mind. What ice cream cone he wants. Or what are we going to do this weekend.You are being paid to work.
Johnny can't make up his mind. What ice cream cone he wants. Or what are we going to do this weekend.You are being paid to work.
Cell phones are getting to be a huge problem in the workplace and homes. I hire a lot of 20-30ish general laborers on my ranch to do general labor. When I hire them part of their inbrief deals with cell phone usage and smoking policy as I pay by the hour. Normally it is not a big issue as I supervise and work with them so I can monitor their usage but it has been a huge issue if I'm not there to supervise. Most if not all of the cell phone usage is gibberish or nonsense texting with very little actual useful info dealing with important or time sensitive issues. I encourage my workers to save their texting for their work breaks as I will not pay them to talk on the phone. I don't pay minimum wage...I actually pay double the minimum wage with free lunch at a buffet as I don't hire unskilled workers. For construction work or projects, I require a competitive bid as I want nothing to due with by the hour workers. I pay my stacking hay crews by the bale and let their boss figure out the cell phone usage as he wants to maximize his pay and no bales get stacked if they are on the phone. I have a no alcohol policy and no smoking within 50 ft of the barns and machinery. I think smart phones are more addictive than nicotine and alcohol, I still use a flip phone so I guess I am still a dinosaur. Probably will get a smart phone soon just so I can get instant weather reports, watch the stock market, and search for equipment of "tractorhouse" and maybe even get a sports update on the weekends. I actually feel sorry for all the zombies who are trapped in the smart phone web. JMHO
As an afterthought, it also seems, in my experience, that the guy that cannot stand to see you spend 5 minutes on the phone on his job is usually the same guy that will not hesitate to call you during the work day and spend 20 minutes trying to explain a 10 second yes/no question. However if you leave your phone in the truck you don't care enough about customers and if you answer your phone you're screwing the guy who's job you are on. If a person was to follow all of us around every day they could sure point out all sorts of ways that we could be more efficient.
Leave the phones in the truck, not just for the lack of work but they are a distraction and become a safety issue. I also don't want to destroy my phone by having it in my pocket or tool belt while I'm working.
Years ago I ran a motorcycle dealership and phones in the repair shop became a real problem. I painted a line across the shop up by the front doors and made it a rule that no phones were to be used beyond that line. That way my techs could make or receive those IMPORTANT calls, but when they did they were up front where everyone could see that they were not working. They didn't like it at first, but they got used to it and it became a self policing thing.
Years ago I ran a motorcycle dealership and phones in the repair shop became a real problem. I painted a line across the shop up by the front doors and made it a rule that no phones were to be used beyond that line. That way my techs could make or receive those IMPORTANT calls, but when they did they were up front where everyone could see that they were not working. They didn't like it at first, but they got used to it and it became a self policing thing.
oliverplow
Member
I don't have a problem with a quick one minute call from wife, kids, school, and people like that but not long calls to buddies. I am sick of people looking at their iphones nonstop every place I go! When you go out to eat, make everyone put their phones on the table and the first person to touch their phone, pays the bill!
K Effective
Well-known Member
I can only imagine the uproar of my phone-addicted coworkers if their roofing crew put in the same effort as they do at work. Oh, the hypocrisy!!
farmerwithmutt
Well-known Member
I always explain it like this if you got a car mechanic working on your car and your getting charged by the hour would you want that mechanic talking on the phone or working on your car.
Gambles
Well-known Member
I work with a guy who is the boss's/business owner's son. He gets calls about six times a day....from his wife.
I'm always embarrassed when his phone rings and he talks about family matters in front of the customer, the same customer who might by paying our wages by the hour.
(My job is sometimes bid work, sometimes hourly work)
If I was the customer on this job site and was paying them by the hour and not by a bid price, the phones would be left in the vehicles. Period.
I'm always embarrassed when his phone rings and he talks about family matters in front of the customer, the same customer who might by paying our wages by the hour.
(My job is sometimes bid work, sometimes hourly work)
If I was the customer on this job site and was paying them by the hour and not by a bid price, the phones would be left in the vehicles. Period.
In simple terms its rude and a rip off. Its not very common to get a job set up hourly, because owners want to know what the job will cost in total. Its very fortunate for a contractor to get an hourly contract or arrangement. Having labor forces that stop working because they are on the phone or electronic device shows no gratitude for the work they were given. I'm not sure what the terms are here, but I'd like to see that contract. I'd find a way to stop them from working, find them in default if possible.
Then tell them, you want the job, its now lump sum, and there are other bidders.
I can see it already, boiler plate language covering lack of production due to this scenario.
Most jobs, you'll get a morning break in the trades, lunch.... any phone calls or texting can't be done then ?
I work in an office as of late, in the construction industry, my smart phone is nearby, I rarely use it. I don't have someone looking over my shoulder either, work is work and that's that. I have access to the net on my PC, and its only used strictly for work. Same with e-mail, all of it business, I do not want personal or other email, every one has a job number in the subject line, important attachments/documents.
Employers have trust issues because of these idiots that cannot abide by good work ethics and practices. What is wrong with people today, they don't have a clue as to what good work ethics are. At the company where I work there were people in higher level management positions that literally were caught gaming, one watching porn ! This was prior to my working there, going back years I believe. Because of that, my desk faces a wall with my back to the door, I don't do these things and have no interest in any of it. Gaming or porn at work, what the heck is wrong with these folks. My interest is getting my work done and being successful. I can clearly see I'll have to earn the trust so my desk can face the door. Thanks a lot jerks! LOL !
Then tell them, you want the job, its now lump sum, and there are other bidders.
I can see it already, boiler plate language covering lack of production due to this scenario.
Most jobs, you'll get a morning break in the trades, lunch.... any phone calls or texting can't be done then ?
I work in an office as of late, in the construction industry, my smart phone is nearby, I rarely use it. I don't have someone looking over my shoulder either, work is work and that's that. I have access to the net on my PC, and its only used strictly for work. Same with e-mail, all of it business, I do not want personal or other email, every one has a job number in the subject line, important attachments/documents.
Employers have trust issues because of these idiots that cannot abide by good work ethics and practices. What is wrong with people today, they don't have a clue as to what good work ethics are. At the company where I work there were people in higher level management positions that literally were caught gaming, one watching porn ! This was prior to my working there, going back years I believe. Because of that, my desk faces a wall with my back to the door, I don't do these things and have no interest in any of it. Gaming or porn at work, what the heck is wrong with these folks. My interest is getting my work done and being successful. I can clearly see I'll have to earn the trust so my desk can face the door. Thanks a lot jerks! LOL !
The cell phone thing at work is a problem for sure. We tell employees they can't use them except breaks and lunch. Most abuse it and a few comply with no problem. We do accept the fact that things at home do come up and people are going to take calls now and then during work. Now and then we don't get worked up over, but the guy that is texting, or talking several times an hour gets one warning then it's go home time for the day. We build large diameter steel pipe and fittings and not paying attention to what is going on will get you hurt bad or even killed. When people do have to take a call we tell them that they must leave the work area and go stand in the isle so that they are hopefully out of the way. Employees that are constantly caught on the phone eventually get wrote up and sent home for a few days. We understand that they will get a call now and again, but constantly throughout the day is a bit much. If there is something going on that requires them to be on the phone several times a day they just need to go home and take care of it. I had one guy that could not stay off the phone with his wife to save his life. I finally asked him one day what he and his wife talk about at night when he gets home? He asked why I wanted to know and I just said you are on the phone so much during the day there couldn't be much left to talk about at the end of the day. He didn't care for that much, but it's the truth. The comment we get allot is "what if there is an emergency at home and my wife or kids need to get a hold of me"? My answer is "the front office will take the call and someone will come and get you just like they did when your dad was your age". It worked for him, it will work for you. Just back off the phone while on the clock. Oh well. The fight goes on. They are a huge distraction at work and on the road.
Greg
Greg
Andy Martin
Well-known Member
If your kids are the biggest thing in your life you should be very concerned about how to feed and clothe them. You might need a job for that. That job might require your attention in order to earn a profit for your employer. It might take away from your phone time to meet your employer's needs. You might not be able to Skype their activities that occur during working hours. You might change your attitude if you hire an employee by the hour to do work on a fixed price job for someone else. Maybe not, a lot of small businesses go broke each year and usually the owners are clueless as to why they failed.
In my job, and as my own boss, and being in the repair field, I often get multiple calls a day from customers. Typically, what I do art the end of the day, is to look back over my calls, and add up the time I spent on the phone, and subtract it from my time for the customer I was working for.
I will always do this for my smaller customers. However, for the bigger one, and/or the ones who are more than likely to call me multiple times a day when I am working for someone else, I just let it ride...unless the time spent is extremely excessive.
In a situation like the one mentioned, I'd have done exactly what the guy mentioned did. Either the workers turned off their phones, or they gto paid for the time they actually worked, and then got sent on their happy way.
I will always do this for my smaller customers. However, for the bigger one, and/or the ones who are more than likely to call me multiple times a day when I am working for someone else, I just let it ride...unless the time spent is extremely excessive.
In a situation like the one mentioned, I'd have done exactly what the guy mentioned did. Either the workers turned off their phones, or they gto paid for the time they actually worked, and then got sent on their happy way.
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